Ripple Effect with John Zator

[00:00:00] Scarlett 2i2 USB: Hello and welcome to the swell season surf podcast. I'm your host Tyler Brewer.

[00:00:08] I've always been intrigued by the ripple effect in history, particularly in surfing. How one influence leads to another influence and on and on. And I feel like. It's really important that we know about these influences. Uh, for one reason, it's really important. I think to know where you came from and also know where you're going. But also, I think it's important that we acknowledge those who came before, broke new ground and laid a foundation for others to follow and to inspire. And. You know, Uh, doing swell season, you know, like I'm, I'm always like I'm trying to capture a whole wide range of people, people who have just moved to [00:01:00] New York, uh, some who've been here for ages. Um, but I feel like it's really important that I try to capture. Some of the people who came before and, and hear their story. Because a lot of them have, you know, we wouldn't be here.

[00:01:15] We wouldn't be doing what we're doing. Uh, without some of these people, and I think it's important, we acknowledge that. Uh, especially, you know, before it's too late and we can't capture those stories. Um, And if there is ever a New York surfing hall of fame, This guest would be right at the top of the list. Uh, for me at least to add, uh, our guests is, uh, John And many of you may not be aware of who he was or who he is, but for those who don't know, John started with his partner, Tom McGinnis. Uh, Lido surf and sport. Uh, Lido surf and sport was a surf shop that opened in around 93, 94. [00:02:00] Uh, and it opened in Lido beach. Literally like right on the beach, actually like right there, which is incredible. As really cool spot.

[00:02:11] And it became like, This ultimate hangout for surfers and it really. Change like the epicenter of New York surfing to this one little area and some of the best surfers in New York road for them. And it influenced the Nate. So many people and created a whole bunch of seeds that they spread and all these other people, you know, from Lido surfing sport, you know, continued on that, uh, that energy. Uh, that they helped create. Now, uh, you know, you can draw like a direct line from John and Lido surfing sport to the Quicksilver pro. To Balram stack and we'll scoot in. And it can be argued without John and Lido surfing sport. It's possible.

[00:02:58] These things [00:03:00] will, you know, uh, bow Quicksilver, pro all these things. May not have come to fruition without. John Lane, a foundation, uh, with the Lido surf and sport. Now, unfortunately they say that the candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long and Lido surfing sport was short-lived. But we could still feel some of the reverberations that are felt today. And John. Uh, you know, has been dealing with some health issues recently. And I noticed it on social media. You know that he's going to, you know, uh, chemo treatment, uh, for cancer. And I felt it was really important to reach out to him and try to get his story. Um, because he's so integral into the story of New York surfing. Um, Lido surf and sports sprung from Lido surfing sports sprung, like, you know, Mike [00:04:00] Nelson, Dave on Balara we'll scoot.

[00:04:03] And he used to hang out there. All these people spend time there and they went off and did all these incredible things to help further New York surfing. And, uh, you know, I think it's really important that we pay do and pay tribute to someone who's had a huge influence in John. Is someone who is just. A gem of a human he's.

[00:04:24] He's beautiful. He's. Uh, extremely loving. Extremely caring person. Who has been involved with our community for years, he has always taken time out to help the younger surfers. And he's also been a great friend to the guys who've been around for ages and he would give you the shirt off his back. That's like the type of person he is and. You know, just such a wonderful person and wonderful. Influence.

[00:04:53] I thought he would just be a perfect guest to have on the show. Uh, we have a really, really great [00:05:00] conversation. Just kind of obviously mining the history. But also talking about the influence of it and what was happening and also how that influenced his life and how he handled all the things that came with that. Um, you know, and John is just damn inspiring and I'm really stoked to have been able to sit with him and spend time with him. And I hope you enjoy this episode.

[00:05:24] I think you will. And if you know, You know, if you want to know about New York surfing, he's really important to know about, and his story is important. So I hope you enjoy this episode and, uh, yeah, we'll see you on the other side of this, but. Yeah, I'm really, really excited and, and kind of proud of this interview with John.

[00:05:44] So thank you. And, uh, give it a lesson.

[00:05:48] Tyler: Right. Uh, we are started. So, um, I guess I wanted to start John with, you know, with you. I wanted to start just [00:06:00] kind of the beginning where, where were you born and like, where'd you learn to surf? Where, when were you introduced to surfing?

[00:06:09] john: Well, uh, I was born in Rockville center, 1955, and, uh, grew up in South Hampstead and, uh, had some influences in surfing from, uh, my brother and my brother's friends.

[00:06:28] Uh, they would go down to Azores back, I guess it was the early mid sixties, maybe, and, uh, middle to late sixties. And I would go down there like a little grom and just want to surf. And, uh, and then after that, uh, they would, uh, Uh, you know, I, I really, after that, I, I really didn't surf that much. Uh, and I [00:07:00] went to high school and wound up getting a little Volkswagen, uh, Beetle.

[00:07:05] And, uh, I used to take that down to Lincoln and Monroe and surf there when I was like a junior in high school, senior in high school. But I really wasn't surfing that great, you know, just. Getting a couple of waves here and there. And then, uh, when I graduated high school, I went to Idaho. I lived in Idaho for two years.

[00:07:27] Oh, and, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What part of

[00:07:30] Tyler: Idaho? I lived in Pocatello, Idaho. What were you doing there?

[00:07:34] john: Well, it's an interesting story. We were, you know, heading out to California in a little love van. Yeah, the shagging wagon. It was pretty cool, but it was sort of. You know, we, we did a lot of drugs in those days.

[00:07:50] So, uh, my memory's a little foggy, I'll say that much. And, uh, you know, we were [00:08:00] really into the Grateful Dead. And so we wanted to go to San Francisco and then just sort of got thrown around a little bit. And we wound up, my friend was going to Idaho State University, my friend, John. And, uh, we were like, you know, let's stop here.

[00:08:17] And one thing led to another And my friends were like they just bailed one morning. They were gone and they left me there You know left me in idaho and i'm like you gotta be kidding me. I'm in idaho pocatello, idaho You know, it's crazy like 1975 74 and I just was like Why me like what happened like I sort of was like a little confused But we was stoned a lot.

[00:08:47] So I just did it. I wound up working at a bakery out there And I worked swing shift and then I went and uh, And then I wound up we was skiing a lot You know, so we had [00:09:00] just a great group of guys from california from san diego It's just the funnest guys. They live in carlsbad and they were surfers, you know so we really hit it off and And it was a little crazy, but they were moving drugs from San Diego to Idaho State.

[00:09:18] Anyway, so they will, you know, we hung out together and we, we skied this little ski resort called skyline. It was like 10 miles away. And we went there every day. Oh, man, all powder skiing Just fantastic for two years and must be empty too. And it was empty Oh, so so what turned out to be what started out is like a Why me turned into one of the greatest things I ever had in my life I had out there like powder skiing like every day, you know and What happened was After that You know, I started missing, [00:10:00] you know, Long Beach and the East Coast and I came back and I remember going over the, going over the, uh, George Washington Bridge and going like, I can't believe I'm coming back to this place.

[00:10:12] It was like, you know, I was in this beautiful, pristine area and then coming back and going, uh, Back to New York, but in the mid 70s to my yeah, pretty bad, you know, so, so I'm like, okay, so I'll go back, you know, and I because it was basically have some girls that I missed and, uh, they came back here and I, uh, rented a place over in, uh, West end of Long Beach, lived there and started surfing again.

[00:10:40] And, uh,

[00:10:43] Tyler: That's when it kind of, kind of bit you a bit more, would you say? Yeah.

[00:10:46] john: Yeah. So it was sort of an everyday thing. 'cause I wasn't skiing really powder and I'd come up here to the East coast and ski and everything, but it just really didn't feel the same, you know? No, no . And then, uh, when [00:11:00] I lived down on, on the west end, I was living on the beach, so, wow.

[00:11:05] Yeah. So I was going every day. That's where I met Diane, my wife. You know, it was sort of like men at the beach. She was a summer rental. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was really a lot of fun. And, uh, you know, and then you get just caught up in everything, you know. I'm like, I was like going to stay here for like a couple of months, and then head back.

[00:11:27] And I just started working, uh, in the construction field, you know. And, uh, making a little bit of money. And then, uh, you know, surfing whenever I could. And then, you know, you go through life and you're like, you know, I just really wanted to do what I love to do, so it was really surfing and snowboarding or skiing, you know.

[00:11:53] I really hadn't started snowboarding yet. And then what, you know, and then I just fell into [00:12:00] the, you surfboard, you know, business, you know,

[00:12:06] Tyler: you fell into it.

[00:12:07] john: Go on. Well, let me just tell you what happened. So, you know, we're surfing, you know, I'm sort of jumping ahead a little bit, you know, but really it was mainly work mode through that, you know, period from, uh, I would say from 1980 till, you know, Maybe 1990, I just worked, you know, made money and worked.

[00:12:32] And then, uh, you know, I'm like, I'm really just sort of have this entrepreneur, you know, a spirit of just like I wanted to be my own boss. And I, and I was like, you know, at Lido one day and I ran into a friend of mine, Tom, and, you know, we would start talking about things. And there was this open store over by, you know, across the street from the golf course over by Marvell.

[00:12:56] And, uh, you know, just loving the waves at Lido, having a ball [00:13:00] back then, you know, and, uh, you know, like, why not just, uh, let's see if we can get together and my buddy Leo, Doc Leo, he's like, you know, you guys should probably try to do something, you know, get together and do something, you know, and we're like, you know, so we started talking about it and talking about it and, uh, you know, the next thing you know, we're, we're, we're Putting a deposit, you know to rent this place But it needed a ton of work, you know, so You know here I am in a construction field, so i'm like why not And the owner was like, you know, well, we'll you know help you out as best you can But we basically did the whole thing like I did it with you know help from a couple people And rebuilt it and uh, that's how it all sort of started, you know, uh Uh,

[00:13:49] Tyler: I want to ask like I want to jump back a little bit What was surfing like in Long Beach and in New York towards like [00:14:00] the mid to late 70s when you came back?

[00:14:02] Like what, can you set the stage of like what the vibe and feel was? Because I think There's so many new surfers to New York who don't understand, like, some of the restrictions we had to the blackballing and limitations on where you could surf and, you know, just the overall feel of things was a lot different.

[00:14:22] john: Yeah. Well, I, you know, I mainly would go to, you know, Lincoln back, uh, when I was in high school and I still remember I bought a board at Sundown. And, uh, it was a brown board. Uh, like pop out. I can't remember what the name of what the make was, but it was a single fin and it was six, six and it was pretty thin and it really wasn't floating me too well.

[00:14:52] So I remember, you know, just sort of struggling with it. I'd get a couple of waves and I really don't know who it was at Lincoln one day. And this is [00:15:00] like late, like 74. 73 right around there. And this guy's like, man, I love that boy. Do you mind if I take it out for a little bit? And I'm like, Oh my God, this guy's ripping on the sport.

[00:15:14] I mean, look at this guy. And I was just so impressed. I don't know who it was for this day. I really don't know who it was. You know, it could have been, it was definitely somebody that knew what he was doing. Yeah. You know, and, uh, but it just kept, you know, Getting the, er, you know, I just kept getting like I had to get better, you know, So I bought like a little floatier board for mustache, you know, but the vibe down there was just you know, it's It was just fun You know, it was like everybody was having fun.

[00:15:45] I You know, it's the whole surfing is just such a blessing right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh, I don't know. It just everything was fun about it. I didn't have any problems with uh You know, [00:16:00] anything.

[00:16:00] Tyler: Localism, or none of that.

[00:16:02] john: just, it was just everybody was having a ball.

[00:16:06] Tyler: Everyone knew each other, too. It was a much smaller community.

[00:16:09] Well,

[00:16:09] john: you'd see faces that you just knew. You know, and then when I came back, though, you know, and that was like 80, 79, 80, 80, 80, 80, 80, 80. You know, I got to know a lot of people down west, like Bobby Landon and, you know, uh, Freddie. Yeah. You know, Freddie and, you know, we just had a little tight little group.

[00:16:34] We'd always surf Laurelton, Lafayette, Washington. You know, and it was just fun. It was, those were the, I don't want to say it, but those were the days. The days, you know, we just never missed a swell. We were always on it, you know, and I really didn't surf down in this end that much. We'd just take a ride or we'd go to West End 2 or something like that, you know, and that was a whole nother vibe.

[00:16:58] Tyler: Oh, yeah, well West [00:17:00] End 2? Yeah, West End 2. Do you want to expand on on what that vibe was like? Oh, I would love

[00:17:05] john: to, so you know, I, I, uh, I lived in Freeport for a little bit. You know, with a girl over there in Freeport anyway, so, uh, uh, Jimmy Enos. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Jimmy. Yeah. So I was living with him and, uh, he was this, you know, sanitation engineer.

[00:17:27] We'll call him, you know, and, uh, you know, I was working in the tugboat business in Brooklyn and, uh. I had to go to work early, so I'd always miss all the days. And then come back and the jetty was just going off, you know? Yeah. And I'd be like, Oh man, I gotta get this. So Jimmy sort of just, he was a great guy to surf with.

[00:17:48] You know, when you were really friends with him, you know, but you didn't want to not be friends with Jimmy, you know, and that whole crew, you know, so they would sort of sneak me in and I could surf a little bit, you know, so I [00:18:00] would, I would pick off a writer to you to get me, let me get a wave, you know, because I was with them.

[00:18:05] Yes. So it was great. You know, you're with the crew.

[00:18:08] Tyler: But if you weren't with the crew. If you weren't with the crew, you got beat up on the beach. There's no doubt about it. Windshield waxing. Uh, yeah. Tire slashing. It was, it was, it was pretty heavy duty, but the

[00:18:21] john: wave was worth

[00:18:21] Tyler: it. Yeah. It was. The wave was.

[00:18:24] Describe, describe the wave for our listeners, because the wave doesn't really exist in that form anymore. Uh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like

[00:18:32] john: Manisquan, Sebastian, you know, this was even better. Yeah. You know, and it was like a South, West, South, you know, the right would just go, you know, first, second, third peak, depending how good you were, you know.

[00:18:48] Yeah. And, uh, or I guess how, uh, tough you were, maybe, I don't know. You know, but Sean Latino, you know, it's just some great names that surfed it, you [00:19:00] know. And, uh, And Jimmy, you know, Bobby and, you know, just thinking of all the names, you know, and, uh, you know, I would sort of sometimes get the first peek, you know, but it was around, uh, When it got big, it was pretty nasty, pretty scary.

[00:19:23] Because she was so far away from the parking lot. Yeah. If anything

[00:19:26] Tyler: happened, you were done. And everything would like, you know, the wave would, would refract off that jetty. Yeah. And so, it would, um, it would get like double the size. You could always count on it being bigger than everywhere else. Oh, it was always bigger.

[00:19:42] john: It would just wedge up and just, uh, A frame, you know, right? you know perfect, right and uh a couple bad things happened down there like You know, I don't know if you know keith Yeah, oh Wait, which keith repair keith, huh

[00:19:58] Tyler: ding

[00:19:58] john: repair

[00:19:59] Tyler: keith.

[00:19:59] john: No. [00:20:00] No. No, this is keith from back in the day and uh They were surfing in the winter on a big swell and uh Uh, I mean it was I think there was just like three guys out You God, I can't think of his name.

[00:20:16] It'll come to me, but, uh, anyway, I wasn't there, but, uh, Keith just got really messed up on a, on a wave. Yeah, he, uh, he almost died. Jeez. And, uh, I can't think he lives in Hawaii now he owns a property down the block, you know around the corner here and But it'll come to me. Yeah, he saved his life. Oh, yeah, he pulled him out of the water and Got you know, you know less than two.

[00:20:47] That's a long walk, you know And I mean it was freaking maybe 30 degrees blowing strong West Northwest you know and You Uh, he just got, he just got, uh, he got [00:21:00] paralyzed. Yeah. Holy. He, he, he wasn't able to surf after that. Yeah. Really, really sad, but he would have died if these guys didn't pull him back and, you know, get him back to the parking lot.

[00:21:14] Tyler: For our listeners, like this break is like a good, you know, I would say 15, 20 minute walk on soft sand basically to the spot. And in the summer, it's also like, The worst place to walk because of the mosquitos and green flies. Oh yeah. No doubt. You're running.

[00:21:33] john: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're running, bud. As far as like, if you wanted to get a wave when it was pretty crappy everywhere else with a west wind, there you are.

[00:21:45] Get the incoming tide. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes you get it to yourself for two,

[00:21:51] Tyler: three people. Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah. I was always scared as a Grom going there and like, you know, I [00:22:00] never had any issues with anyone luckily. Maybe because I was so young going down there and then, you know. When I got older I was bigger than most people, so it helped, but I always was terrified of anyone down there.

[00:22:14] The stories, the lore. Like anything

[00:22:17] john: else, you know, you go anywhere else, you know, you gotta show respect, you know. You gotta, you know, there's locals. There's, and this place was like beyond locals. It was really cool. But that just shows it was such a great wave. Yeah, it was a great wave. And everybody wanted to protect it.

[00:22:34] You know.

[00:22:36] Tyler: Now, so, so let's Okay, let's like jump to now. You meeting your, your, your former partner in business, uh, Tom McGinnis. Um, he was a, um, an East coast pro surfer, you know, like one of the first like New York quote unquote pro surfers. Um, you know, [00:23:00] Ricky Rasmussen wouldn't really call it pro, you know, it was before that, so, yeah, I mean, it, what did you think was lacking in the surf surfing community that you felt you guys could bring to it.

[00:23:14] Because to me, I'm going to frame it here, listeners. Like, you know, what John, what you and Tom did with Lido Surf and Sport, I think, um, laid a foundation for where we are now in New York surfing and like. You have had, it has had reverberations that we still feel the effects of today, actually, in a very positive way, I would, you know, I'd obviously say.

[00:23:43] So I'm, I'm curious, like, what you saw was lacking and what you thought you could bring that was different than the other shops at the time. Um, and you know, we're not pooh poohing any of the shops, especially my family's shop, but, you know, but, uh, you know, like, I'm just curious, like, what you saw the opening there [00:24:00] for.

[00:24:01] Uh,

[00:24:03] john: well, we, we, you know, we had a great wave down the block, you know. Uh, we, we, there was some great surfers that, of that time, you know. And, you know, I was looking at it as, let's take something that I love to do. And, you know, let's see if I can make a living on this, you know. I saw that side of it. But then I also saw, uh, you know, like a, a possibility.

[00:24:40] We were right down the block from, you know, Lido. And, uh, you know, Tom had some great ideas. You know, let's put together, you know, you know, a little package. We weren't able to get a lot of. You know lines that we really wanted to get So it was a [00:25:00] little a little tough in the beginning a little nerve wracking.

[00:25:02] Mm hmm As far as a need like yeah, like as far as like what what we saw Well, I saw an opportunity to try to have snow skates You know, surfskate, snow, you know, uh, you know, like to combine all of those things, you know, and we started throwing together some ideas, you know, and, uh, I think, you know, looking back at it, and I don't know, you know, I, I, it was a very, you know, challenging thing, it was tough, it was definitely tough for my family, but at the time it was just so exciting.

[00:25:43] I don't know. And, uh, I don't know if, you know, if we're going to keep all of this, just to let you know, but, uh, uh, I, it's just [00:26:00] interesting the way it's sort of panned out. Like I saw this opportunity, I saw, uh, a need. It was a big space, you know, looking back at it. I don't know if it needed to be so big.

[00:26:13] But I sort of had this like, I know it might sound crazy, like a Disney World type of thing. Or Tom would always say to me, Oh, we're going to be Tom John on the East Coast. We're going to be Tom John, you know. And I'm like, he just said, just come along with me. Just ride this thing out with me, you know. And I really just did, sort of, you know, I just sort of like, let's just go with it, you know.

[00:26:37] And, uh, And I was like, you know what, I have the ability to build things, so let's just get like a concept, so, you know, we will like, skate, you know, a half pipe in the back, you know. Uh, let's do some crazy stuff on the inside, so we got a Volkswagen, and, uh, Got it in there, which was crazy [00:27:00] that we could even get a volkswagen in there, you know And uh, and then we were like well in the winter, we're gonna cover it with papier mache And which which was crazy because we had flip we had dave and we had you know, everybody was there, you know, like albert Larry prisco, I mean albert prisco larry harrick, you know, just great fun You I had a sound system from a stereo that I built back then.

[00:27:30] You know back in the day I had this engineer that was like put together a sound thing So I brought this monster stereo system in there And we just had fun You know, we just were like putting it together. Everybody got together and we built the half pipe, you know And everybody got together and we did it Like flip painted the Volkswagen, you know, and it came out great, you know, it came out great.

[00:27:52] It was it was just fun, you know, and but this is, you know, we didn't really we were like having these ideas like we will we could put this [00:28:00] together this together this together, but like we really didn't know how it was all going to come together, you know, and, uh, but it, it just turned out like sort of magical because Uh, whenever there were waves, we ran down the block and everybody just wanted to hang out there, you know?

[00:28:19] Tyler: I mean, they, um, I would say the, um, you know, the, the surf reports you used to do were great too. Especially when Dave Vaughn did them. First live surf report. Oh my God. So listeners, we didn't have Surfline really. We did, but you could call it. It was only phone in. And so. Lido had one of the, one of the first local, you know, surf reports, basically.

[00:28:45] We could call in and just call an answering machine that you would record every day. First light surf report from

[00:28:51] john: Lido.

[00:28:52] Tyler: Good

[00:28:52] john: morning. You know, buckle up. We're gonna be in for some surf. You know, you better be eating well and you better be taking care of yourself cause it's going off. [00:29:00] You know, I remember doing that, you know.

[00:29:02] And like anything like that, you know, people would give me slack. Oh, I went down there in the afternoon and it sucked, you know. And I'm like, should have seen it in the morning. You know, what am I gonna do, you know. But I used to, well, you could just look out here, just walk down the block, walk over the fence.

[00:29:18] Stand up there with my yellow lab and give the surfboard. It was fun. I had to walk the dog, you know, put the surf report on here and little blurb out to the shop, you know. But, uh, I got a little interesting story. Oh,

[00:29:31] Tyler: yeah,

[00:29:32] john: yeah. Go on. So this went on for years, you know, and, uh, it was fun. Yeah. And, uh, put on the sales and this and that, and then somehow.

[00:29:43] I knew a lifeguard down in Jones Beach. He's like, listen, I could give you a report from West End 2. And I'm like, I don't know if that's really a good idea, you know? So what happened was I'm like, and everybody's like, yeah, yeah, a lot of people are going to be listening to get [00:30:00] to put the surf report on.

[00:30:01] We'd love to know what the waves are at West End 2. I'm like, oh, screw it. So I put on like two reports. Oh my gosh. Big mistake. Brick through the window at the store.

[00:30:12] Tyler: No Shut up.

[00:30:15] john: Oh, yeah, holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's not that report like right away, you know, and Yeah, it just shows what

[00:30:24] Tyler: you imagine that happening now Now it's like Hey, I geotargeted where I'm surfing, the waves look great, everyone's just broadcasting it now.

[00:30:36] It's the total opposite.

[00:30:38] john: It's crazy.

[00:30:39] Tyler: It's crazy. But, uh, I don't know. Do you think that, like, you, you didn't have retail experience before you opened this shop, correct? Am I, am I correct on that? No retail experience on my side. And, and Tom only had limited experience. Limited retail experience. Right, right.

[00:30:58] Do you think that that [00:31:00] limited experience gave you that creativity, you know, it allowed you to work outside of normal confines of what a lot of people with retail experience would do? You know, it gave you like, you didn't know, so you could kind of come at it with a totally different perspective.

[00:31:17] john: Yeah.

[00:31:18] Yeah. I, uh, my thoughts were, I just wanted it to be a fun place to go to, a fun place to be, fun place to hang out. Yeah. That was it. I just wanted everybody to have fun.

[00:31:30] Tyler: What was your wife's reaction when you said, I'm going to open a surf shop? Ooh. Uh.

[00:31:37] john: Yeah, that was, that was definitely tough. Yeah. Yeah. It was, uh, it, it, in the beginning, I guess it was just sort of, okay, you know, okay, we'll do it.

[00:31:48] You know, but my wife, she was working full time. So it was really me. You know, so, uh, I don't think it was so good, [00:32:00] you know, it was, uh, You know, I never really thought about it that much, but her, I know what the aftermath, after it all was over with, it was tough. Yeah. It was definitely tough. It took a burden on my family, you know.

[00:32:15] Had my third child, and, uh, had no business. And. Lots of phone calls, lots of emails, lots of letters in the mail. And just a tough time. A lot of stress. But, uh, you know, through that whole run, they were great times, so. Yeah. Great times.

[00:32:36] Tyler: Did, you know, like, I guess, like, Did that become your full time job as well when you ran the store?

[00:32:45] Yeah, it was a full time job. Were you still doing side as well? Well, it was

[00:32:48] john: a full time job in the beginning. Full time job there was so much to do. Yeah, you know, I was doing ding repairs in the back Yeah, we

[00:32:57] Tyler: what role were you like, how did you and [00:33:00] Tom break up the the roles? Who'd you

[00:33:02] john: say he was the business end of it?

[00:33:04] Yes a buyer. He was the you know setting up anybody with Any of the companies, you know, he I really was sort of he he always said, you know, just let me do this You take care of that You know, the construction part of it, the maintenance part of it, the ding repairs, you know. Actually, you know, I had a lot of fun selling surfboards.

[00:33:28] Yeah. I'd always get the guys come in like, Ah man, I want to ride like this guy, Kelly Slater. You know, I want to, you know, I need that little potato chip board. You know, like, like six foot, you know, and the guy's like 200 pounds, you know. I'm like, Dude, I don't think this is going to work, you know, I mean, why don't you just try this fun shape, you know, you never surfed before, have fun, you know, so I really enjoyed selling surfboards, you know, so I really did that, you know, I worked the floor a lot, you know.

[00:33:56] Tyler: Well, it seems like, I want to ask, like, you [00:34:00] guys were able to, Create I think an incredible community of people. Um, and you had like great staff there Yeah, incredible staff like really helpful um, really nice and it's funny like I As someone who was a son of a family, you know owned a surf shop I would always be intimidated going into other surf shops because i'd be scared like oh, they must think i'm spying or You know there there might be some negative thing or whatever and I I remember the first time, I used to be intimidated to go in Lido, you know, your store at first because I was like, Oh, they're going to think I'm a spy or they're, you know, whatever it is, you know, and, and I remember going in though, for the first time, and it was just like, I didn't wanna leave.

[00:34:48] Like, I just loved hanging out. Like I think, uh, Brian Walsh was working. Brian was fantastic, you know, behind the counter. And I came in with like Mike Matcher and like, I was always [00:35:00] so impressed with how you displayed everything. Like the surfboards were in the sand, in the sand, you know, you had sand as like the, you know, to cushion them.

[00:35:09] And it was such a cool novel concept.

[00:35:13] john: I guess we really didn't. Well, when the sand comes out, you gotta vacuum that up, you know. We were just like, I mean, everything about it was, it was fun, but we got a lot of input from everybody. You know, everybody wasn't, you know, it was just a whole group of people.

[00:35:30] How did you go about collecting them? I just gotta tell you this quick story. Go on. I don't know why I'm thinking about it but, I mean, we just had fantastic people working there. It was so much fun, you know? And I don't want to name the list and go on, but you sort of know most of the

[00:35:45] Tyler: guys. You can name some names, you know, it's all good.

[00:35:47] You know, it was,

[00:35:48] john: you know, Dave,

[00:35:50] Tyler: You know, Dave Vaughn. Dave Vaughn, Mike Nelson, Brian Walsh. Brian Walsh,

[00:35:55] john: Gary Johnson. Gary was fantastic. Gary, [00:36:00] holy crap, man. much fun with his girlfriend, Stella. Stella was a sweetheart and she was just a gorgeous girl, you know. And, uh, she could sell anything. Yeah. And, you know, one day my buddy Pete, you know, uh, I guess I can name names.

[00:36:16] Peter Rubino, he's a sweetheart. I love the guy. You know, Vietnam Vets, Special Forces. Wow. One special guy, you know. He's seen everything, you know. And he was always hanging out. Yeah. He worked at the high school across the street, so he was always there, you know. And, uh, he was just part of the helper, you know.

[00:36:37] He really helped me out, like build the place and just all the stuff, you know. Anyway, so he, uh He's in there one day and he's like, you know, I had this boogie board that was sitting there for years, you know It was like expensive too, but it was really big You know boogie board, but she surfed. Yeah, but stella stella was just such a sale Like I remember pete would tell me like years later.

[00:36:58] He's like she sold me [00:37:00] this surfboard. I didn't even want to think You know, but she was just so great and just And she's like You know, like, Pete, you'd be fantastic with this boogie board. You're gonna have The boogie board and fins, you know. I don't think he ever used it, you know. But, uh, but they were just great people, you know.

[00:37:19] Tyler: It's something like, I think is missing from a lot of surf shops today, unfortunately, is like the hangout vibe and that's, I don't think it's the, to the fault of the surf shops, it's, it's just the culture has changed where people order online and they're just in more in a rush than, than kind of having time to hang out.

[00:37:42] Yeah,

[00:37:43] john: it's it's too bad. I know because well, at least we have this little story. It was It was good. Maybe we can get back to that someday, you know where It becomes more of a family like and it was really through all through love, you know, we There was a lot of love back then. [00:38:00] We really respected everybody for whatever they You know brought to the table, you know, and now we're in such a Crazy situation.

[00:38:09] Tyler: The world is crazy,

[00:38:11] john: man. The world is crazy, and I understand. I can see how it all happened, but you know, we have to make some changes really quickly and get back to, you know, caring and loving one another. Showing compassion. Totally. Right? Not being able to just jump on everybody like, we don't know what that guy's feeling.

[00:38:30] No, we don't know what anyone's going through. We don't know what they're going through, but we're gonna get in their face. Oh,

[00:38:35] Tyler: you know, it's sad. I agree. I You know, uh Everything is so detached nowadays, you know, it's like We you know, we're we're so You Separated from our phones keep us from interacting, you know, I think, and the, the chat rooms or the comments and all that stuff is just like [00:39:00] so toxic and so easy to be mean.

[00:39:02] Yeah. And dehumanize.

[00:39:04] john: And, uh, you know, I, I, I think we just have to, uh, take a step back, take a deep breath. Right. I know. It's, it's hard though. I, I totally understand. You know, it's, it, it really is not fair. But, uh, you know, I do a lot of praying these days, you know. Yeah. You know, I got diagnosed with cancer and I've had cancer, but this, this was a hit, you know.

[00:39:31] Can you talk, can you

[00:39:32] Tyler: talk

[00:39:32] john: about

[00:39:32] Tyler: that a little? Do you mind

[00:39:33] john: talking? No, not at all. Not at all. I can, listen, every, this is gravy. I mean, seeing you and being here with you, and this is all just a blessing. I mean, it's been a really interesting road. I just gotta step back just one little bit because I haven't mentioned the Scudan family.

[00:39:51] I haven't mentioned Balram. It's like, look at this. This was all, like, Will and Cliff, they were at the shop.

[00:39:59] Tyler: Yeah,

[00:39:59] john: [00:40:00] all the time.

[00:40:00] Tyler: They right down the street, you know on the street, you know, and Dave, you know, older brother Dave and Oli Favada and like

[00:40:08] john: You know,

[00:40:14] Tyler: I so I Feel like what you and listeners like what Lido surf and sport did I think was?

[00:40:23] It laid a foundation, you know You There were, there were other surf shops and they had surf teams, you know, but this felt different, uh, you know, where, where it really felt like a congregation of people, um, you had the, probably some of the best surfers in, in Long Island, in New York at the time on your team.

[00:40:45] Yeah. you guys, um, created, you know, you did one of the first pro contests in, in, in decade. Yeah. The beast of the East in decades, you know, uh, in New York, I think, uh, the only other ones were like [00:41:00] a, a women's pro surf contest out in the Hamptons really. So you guys were really kind of one of the first to do that.

[00:41:07] The beast of the East where you brought All these great surfers into town, too. I remember that was like a whole thing in itself, too. Hammer

[00:41:15] john: and guys from Jersey and California.

[00:41:18] Tyler: You had everyone coming through, especially for that contest. I remember, like, it was like the cream of the crop of East Coast surfers and some West Coast.

[00:41:27] And not only that, you had the, the wall of photos where Mike Nelson got his start, basically, you know, showcasing his photos. You guys. did ads, you were super heavily involved with Eastern surf, where you'd promote your surfers on there and give them a platform. Like this didn't really exist as much beforehand.

[00:41:49] And, and I want to say like that created this whole foundation and all these people who were there went off and did some incredible things.

[00:41:58] john: Yeah.

[00:41:59] Tyler: Yeah, [00:42:00]

[00:42:00] john: no

[00:42:00] Tyler: doubt. No

[00:42:01] john: doubt. I mean, look at, you know, Look at will

[00:42:04] Tyler: yeah

[00:42:05] john: will would will would paddle out. I was afraid to paddle out some of these days, you know Yeah, I was like 50, you know, and i'm like I shouldn't be afraid but I'd paddle out anyway And he was like eight, you know, and he's paddling out and double overhead lito like just like nothing And then his dad would pick him up down at laurelton or something like dripped all the way down, you know and then You You know, just great surf flip would be doing airs.

[00:42:34] Yeah. Like flip would just be killing it. Like LA there was some surfers. I just really like Albert was just off the charts. Yeah. Albert Prisco was unreal, you know, and everybody el everybody was good. Yeah. You know, but there were a couple of standouts and I, you know, I have my favorites, you know? Yeah. I don't want to

[00:42:50] Tyler: go on, let's name some favorites.

[00:42:52] It's all good. I love

[00:42:53] john: Larry Herrick. You know, I love, he was. So smooth, stylish, stylish, you know, [00:43:00] Brian was another one, Brian Walsh. Oh, just gave, gave big guys like me. Hope, you know, you know, there was a lot of fun.

[00:43:11] Tyler: It was a lot of fun. I mean, listeners, like some of these people were mentioning, like they were the best surfers in New York.

[00:43:18] I mean, Larry Herrick, who, you know, um, was in my humble, humble. Super humble, and in my opinion, I think one of the best of that generation. Albert was probably more vocal as, as the best, but I think Larry was a bit more of the understated, you know, best. And then we got Charlie Burnham. Ugh, the godfather.

[00:43:44] Charlie was

[00:43:44] john: like, unreal. Unbelievable. Still is. Still is. He used to get me so, I was so jealous because we used to do like, you know, maybe, let's, let's do some. You know tai chi leo would teach like a little karate kid. [00:44:00] Really? Yeah Yeah, so we'd all go there and charlie a whole bunch of guys this is back years ago You know, it just learned some self defense just in case we had to go down to western 2 But we all figured you know what we better get a step up on our you know fitness, you know and he was so flexible charlie's just So flexible.

[00:44:20] It just led to a surfing. I just remember a guy real athlete You Seriously. You know, real, real. And you know, it's just so many people, you know, and but, you know, when you say how did this all, it's just timing, like anything, you know, we, we didn't know that all this was, we had some vision, I had, you know, some thoughts, you know, like, of just putting it all together, uh, with Tom, you know, and, but I didn't think it was become what it really became.

[00:44:50] And it was all because of the timing and the people, and just, you know. Everybody wanted to, I guess, get better. [00:45:00] And they pushed each other. And look at what happened. You know, Balram, I remember some I mean, we were surfing here, and I don't know how I wound up, but we would surf down in Point Lookout.

[00:45:13] Depended what the swell was. Of course. Little cove area down there. Don't say anything, but you know, Doesn't break anymore. Doesn't break anymore. But, uh, you know, he lived right down the block and he just, you know, walked down there, you know, so I would be like, who is this kid? Yeah. I mean he was just killing it, you know, it was a right that it was just so much fun It used to break underneath the dock over there Yeah, you know he was just like like he was surfing like kelly slater.

[00:45:42] I don't know what he was six years old Whatever he was You know sure enough look at look at look at him.

[00:45:49] Tyler: Well, that's a thing like you've so what I would would I would theorize or Hypothesize is like, you know, what what came from Lido surf in sport are [00:46:00] like a couple of really important things One was the beast of the East I think is really important because it it brought some of the best surfers to New York Which hadn't happened in, you know?

[00:46:13] Decades, I think, and, you know, everyone got to see and compare how good they were to, and that also gave this vision of like a future pro contest, which you're, well, you had like Dave and Mike, Mike Nelson, what they did, well, you gave them this platform. You know, you, you got Dave on started in the industry.

[00:46:36] You guys helped get him a rep job as at world jungle. Um, you know, Mike Nelson, his photos went up on your wall and then that kind of promoted him to do more photography. And you guys use his images and in the Eastern surf magazine, which got him more of an in, and they got them asking him for more photos.

[00:46:57] So all of a sudden there. Mike [00:47:00] Nelson, in my opinion, has been one of the biggest contributors to New York Surfing. Oh, no doubt. And his photography has captured some of the best What a great guy, too. And the most humble Exactly. The most humble person you'll ever meet. And this guy, and he partners then with Dave Juan to form Unsound, which then Creates the Unsound Pro contest, which obviously leads into the Quicksilver Pro 2011.

[00:47:26] It, it also, you know, gave Balaram, you know, this huge platform. Can you

[00:47:32] john: believe what he was able to do?

[00:47:33] Tyler: Yeah. That was fantastic. You know, and, and, uh, you know, and you had, and they would bring people from the west coast over and they would stay. And you had like, remember King? Remember Kingsley King also remember

[00:47:47] john: Kingsley?

[00:47:47] Oh my god. What a

[00:47:50] Tyler: Can we talk about Kingsley for a moment here?

[00:47:54] john: Oh

[00:47:54] Tyler: God. So listeners

[00:47:56] john: from Hawaii.

[00:47:57] Tyler: From Hawaii, Kingsley was, [00:48:00] uh, he was the turtle from the North Shore. He was the real life turtle from North Shore of the movie. They based that character off of him and he's from Hawaii and a moving here and working at the shop and doing art direction and influencing all these guys.

[00:48:15] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no

[00:48:18] john: doubt

[00:48:18] Tyler: and he wouldn't he would never wear a wetsuit and he would surf until november board shorts

[00:48:24] john: Yeah, I remember him coming down toledo and just riding the shore break a fantastic surfer phenomenal. Yeah Yeah, I you know, I don't really have too much to really talk about with him because i'm sort of out of that Yeah, uh business at that at that time.

[00:48:40] Uh, I was focusing on just supporting my family Yeah, you know and getting through some So, but, uh, you know, as I look back, it was all, it's a blessing to look back at it now. It gives me goosebumps. It really does when I see everybody. And, uh, [00:49:00] it's really, you know, you don't realize it. You know, there was a, there was a great period and then there was a tough period.

[00:49:07] I, you know, I got after the shop, I got diagnosed with leukemia. And, uh, it was stress. And I know we were talking about that before. And, uh, you know, it was a mental game. You know, I mean, it brought, uh, it, it really, you know, I was a, always had a strong faith and strong faith in God. And that really Connected me a little bit more to God and I know, you know, a lot of people don't want to really talk about it But sometimes when you're in the darkest moment, you know, you need to have something I would always tell my family that, you know, you wake up at 2 o'clock in the morning and, you know, things are terrible.

[00:49:50] You know, who are you going to turn to? You're going to just toss and turn and just try to get yourself, you know, relaxed. Thank God. Thank, thank for whatever you have. You're still breathing. You still got one [00:50:00] arm, one eye, whatever it is. Just be thankful for every little thing you have, you know, and it'll get you through, you know.

[00:50:06] So. It took me a while to learn that, but, you know, you get diagnosed with cancer, and they sort of read you the riot act, this is how low you have, but, you know, I, I started really just focusing on, after I got through the shit, thank God it was a slow growth cancer. Jesus. And, I mean, these poor, poor people that are suffering with things, so, it's called chronic lymphoma and glucemia.

[00:50:31] And uh, anyway, it's a wait and watch thing, you know, and this was 18 years ago. Wow. I'm 18 years now. Wow so your soul really begins to work on things, you know, like my You know in the beginning I was like I said, you're in sort of panic stage. I got three young kids Why me why me why we why me and I was working up in west point and I met a native american indian Crazy [00:51:00] story He, uh, is a man of God, I'll say that much.

[00:51:03] He was a big alcoholic, you know, older guy. He was like, he was like 20 years older than me at the time. And, uh, he's like, you know, read this, read this, you know, in the Bible. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. You know? And then I started like, uh, listening to him because I was working with him every day.

[00:51:21] I was at West Point. I was a supervisor for a construction company. It was really amazing place to be on a roof. at West Point looking around. What a view. All of these, you know, men of honor. Yeah. You know, and then I had this Native American Indian, I swear from up in, uh, the Adirondacks that was a roofer.

[00:51:43] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:51:43] john: And, uh, he was another supervisor with me and he would just talk to me and talk to me and it just got through into my head, you know, my thick head and I'm like, you know what, you got something here, you know, and I just started getting the picture. Peace. About me and I was able to [00:52:00] sleep and then I was able to focus on all right Well, I got to do whatever I have to do nutrition.

[00:52:04] I was weak for s juicing Leah would adjust me. My buddy call would adjust me. I'd always get chiropractic, you know Everybody was like sort of looking out for me. It was really great, you know, and I and I and I wound up Just getting through it. It was a wait and watch 18 years. How long did you go through treatment for?

[00:52:23] I would go every three months to the doctor for 18 years. So that's a long time, you know, and I noticed if I really kept myself clean, no alcohol, you know, uh, ate really well. Yeah. My, I would be okay, you know, surfed all the time. You know, just kept my head straight being not living in fear and just, uh, you know, being able to just enjoy things.

[00:52:56] I was okay. You know, then COVID hit [00:53:00] and it was a tumble downhill like it was for everybody, but yeah, you know, we, we all went through tough times. Not me. We all went, but that's when I, you know, the shit hit the fan and, uh, you know, I, uh, Tried surf and like this was just back. I was in Florida.

[00:53:17] Tyler: Yeah,

[00:53:18] john: and uh, you know, we went there for a couple weeks I took my little camper van out there.

[00:53:22] Nice. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Well, we threw the board on the roof and just went to new smyrna and all through florida I've got friends down in the keys and just had a ball, you know And i'm like man something's really not right with me, you know, I really don't know what's wrong, you know and And, uh, my wife had some health issues at that time, too.

[00:53:44] And, uh, and then, uh, it was like, well, we gotta get back to New York. I got back here and I tried surfing in the winter and I'm like, I can't surf. Felt like I was having a heart attack. Short, long story short, just wound up going to the emergency room. [00:54:00] And they're like, no, you're not having a heart attack, and your heart's fine.

[00:54:03] My heart felt like it was pounding out of my chest. And I wound up there like, your cancer's through the roof, man. You know, I was like, shit, are you kidding? So, we were like, well, what are we gonna do? You know, let's go to the baths. So we went to Memorial Sloan. They kept me in the hospital for five days. I was getting blood transfusions.

[00:54:22] And it was pretty touch and go for a little while. It was really scary. Uh, for my family, you know. What am I going to do, you know? My life has been pretty good, you know, uh, you know, but it was, it was scary. I thought it, I thought it was like over, you know, but, uh, they brought me back to health and now I'm in treatment once a week, like tomorrow I go and I'll, you know, go in there, spend the day and they'll hook me up, IV and whatever I got to do, you know.

[00:54:53] Tyler: What does that do? Like what shifted for you? Like, what did, what [00:55:00] did you start to see differently then? Like, other than just the, the gratefulness of it, what did, how, like you say you've started to feel calm again, or feel like you were able to sleep once you were able to kind of accept certain things, like, what is that, what did that do, do for you?

[00:55:18] Like changing your outlook on everything, I guess. Uh,

[00:55:23] john: yeah, well, You know, uh, like just being here with you right now. You got to be in the moment and you know, and you got to realize that You know, we got to be thankful and grateful. I I really think that thankful and gratefulness is really it You know, like again, I tell my family, you know I know it's tough out there, but really just trying to focus on that and not go to the dark side and not go to the fear side.

[00:55:50] You know, whatever it is, you gotta have something somewhere. There might have been some person that you met somewhere, right? Yeah. Along this little gravelly road, you know, that [00:56:00] really touched your spirit. And try to maybe think of that person or try to, uh, You know, I don't want to get too emotional, but, uh, You know, there is a lot we could be thankful for.

[00:56:15] And try to turn off the TM TV, you know, just get out there in nature, right? Look at a tree, look at a bird, serious, right? Look at the

[00:56:25] Tyler: moon. It's, it's like, I feel like we've catastrophized everything in this world. We, we, we look at, we were so much more aware of everything happening in the world. And so it's easy to kind of see all the negative things that are happening and we, we, we forget what's in front of us sometimes and how lucky we are.

[00:56:49] We're in

[00:56:49] john: this fear filled, it's just, they just keep pounding more and more fear on us. And each one of us need to [00:57:00] step back. This is not what we are. Yeah. Right? And we're, We're not supposed to be like this. You know, maybe it started with the phones. Maybe it started with the media. Yeah. Whatever it is, who cares?

[00:57:14] Yeah. Right? Yeah. You know, it's like we all have to take this journey. We all have to figure out. We're all on this journey. We're all individuals, right? Mm hmm. Obviously, some people have it really tough, you know. I mean, I just, real quick, in the hospital, it was tough. It was eye opening. Yeah. You know, I saw young families and, you know, one year old, just like what we saw this, the cop, one year old child.

[00:57:38] Why? You know, there's so many things out there, uh, you know, uh, but when you really, uh, You know, I mean, I mean, just take, I was there, you know, I've seen so much and you spend five days in the hospital at a cancer center in Manhattan and you're just really eye open to who the real heroes [00:58:00] are. There was some, there was a chaplain, I met Brian and, uh, I had to pray with him.

[00:58:08] I said, you know, Brian, I, you know, may the Lord give you strength, you know, to, Give you the wisdom to say what the right words to say to all of these people that are suffering. And, uh, I mean, I'm okay. You know, my spirit's good. So you go out there, you know, people like that. Well, the nurses. Oh my God.

[00:58:29] They're, they're, it was just, You know, it makes me cry. It's like you see these spirits of these wonderful people. How do they do it? How do they how do they do it? They got their own lives. They got their own problems But yet they can step forward and take care of somebody like me and love me Fantastic,

[00:58:48] Tyler: right?

[00:58:49] You know, that's That's our saving grace, though, is to be able to care for another and to try to, you know, by, by [00:59:00] comforting someone, doing something good for someone, or volunteering your, your energy to someone. Yeah. That is nourishment too, for them as well, and helps them through their difficult times too, I, I imagine.

[00:59:14] john: Yeah. You know, it all leads with love. Yeah. And that's, you know, I, I put something, like, it just, Came to my heart, you know, like, you know, if we could just show love for one another, you know Well, that'll step forward to you know, maybe having more compassion for one another, you know And maybe we're not the you know, they're suffering just as much as we are Yeah, you know and just try to lead with that love somehow, you know

[00:59:43] Tyler: How much is like loving yourself plays into that then?

[00:59:46] Oh huge like that to me I think that is probably the hardest thing to do it is Like, for me, it's hard to love myself, and I think that's really Yeah. That's one of the biggest challenges. It is. Because it's hard to [01:00:00] love anyone else when you don't love yourself. Exactly. I

[01:00:03] john: used to say, you know, look in the mirror, and look at yourself in the mirror, and just say, I love myself.

[01:00:11] I love myself. I love it. And keep saying it until you smile, you know. And, uh, I don't know, sounds like it's a little quirky, but whatever, you know, you really have to, you know, hey, we're blessed with what we have, you know, whatever it is. Some of us have, you know, some pretty tough times for our heart, you know, our bodies might not be perfect, but, uh, even just the love of whatever you have, you know.

[01:00:38] Yeah. I mean, it's Easy to say, I guess, but it's hard to do, you know.

[01:00:44] Tyler: I want to, I want to jump back a little bit to, uh, Lido Surf and Sport and the, you know, I hate to say it, but the decline of the shop, you know, and [01:01:00] you know, you don't have to go into details about that so much as, uh, I'm curious like what that did for your relationship to surfing and how you viewed it because Because i've gone through things where we know how it you you know, I know

[01:01:14] john: I didn't really I mean It was You know You know, when you surf, like everybody sort of has a different thing.

[01:01:24] Maybe some people are more on the competitive side. But I was, I was always like, you know what, I'm going out there to have fun. You know what they always say, the guys smile and having a, you're having, who cares if it's knee high, waist high, head high, whatever it is. Wow, that guy's having fun. Yeah, you know, you'd look at him.

[01:01:39] He's having fun and that I always wanted to be That you know, so when I'd go in the water, you know, everybody would ask me, you know, what's going on? How's everything in it? I was like man, my place of tranquility is gone, you know It's it was not fun, you know because [01:02:00]everybody would be like You know, whatever it was You know, just how's it going?

[01:02:05] What happened with the shop? You know, it's all business, you know No, so I didn't want to take the business into the water, you know, so being a surf shop owner is not easy, you know you And you took your joy and I never thought it would be like this is it. I'm like my joy is gone This is what I went for, you know, and and then The years went on, and I just can't tell you how much I enjoy riding the wave now.

[01:02:29] You know, it's like, I can't wait.

[01:02:32] Tyler: Well, it's, it's funny, right? When you have, when you make your passion your, your source of income or your work, I feel like it's hard to balance it, you know, because it, it makes it really difficult because it's hard to dissociate your stress from your pleasure. Yeah. And the two become intertwined.

[01:02:54] Not only that, like, you're also, like, you're out in the water, you have to represent your store, you can't, you can't act [01:03:00] poorly, you can't mouth off to anyone, you can't do anything that will upset anyone, because you're, you have to please everyone to stay in business, it's a, it's a, it's a stressful thing, like, God, and you can't burn anyone, forget about that, you know, I always grew up with that, it's a stressor, so.

[01:03:17] I know, I always grew up with that knowledge, like, Oh, I have to, I can't burn anyone, I have to always be respectful and polite, you know? Humble,

[01:03:24] john: respectful, quiet, and just Take whatever it is, like, you know, all this wetsuits got a leak. You think I can, you know, it was like stuff like that, you know, or, or this board, you sold my board.

[01:03:36] I don't, I don't like my board. Can I get my money back? What it's,

[01:03:42] Tyler: it's two days old and I did it. I need there is refund,

[01:03:46] john: you know? And I, so I try to like go to places where nobody would sort of, and it's. Still didn't matter, you know, it didn't matter, you know, wherever you went, right, they always, yeah, it's tough.

[01:03:57] It's really tough.

[01:03:59] Tyler: And then [01:04:00] when you have like something that's heartbreaking, like the store closing or, you know, or I've, I've experienced it too. When I did the film festival and that fell apart, like. To me, uh, you know, it took a while to, to fall back in love with surfing. Exactly. Did you feel the same way?

[01:04:20] Did you feel like, did you like back off from surfing?

[01:04:24] john: Yeah, I definitely backed off. I, uh, it's crazy to say, but my love for surfing really stopped for a number of years. It was always, who am I going to run into? You know, and it was tough and I think it was a you know, and I think things like that, you know stress They create these illnesses, you know, so that's why Everybody's just got to be aware, you know, you got to watch out for it, you know But yeah, [01:05:00] it took away my fear for surfing and it came finally came back.

[01:05:04] You know, I don't know. I Guess it was You Meant to be, you know, and I don't want to keep falling back on it, but I have to you know, my faith in God You know pulled me through and it took this thing like I loved and took it away and then it brought it back It brought it back with something, I can't even tell you how great it was.

[01:05:26] When did you feel that comeback? Uh, oh, it was at least 6, 8, 6, 8 years. I can't even, you know, maybe. Was it a moment? I think it was 9, 11. Hit and my wife worked at the World Trade Center. Whoa. She traveled there every day. Yeah. She, she wound up having seizures after that. Nighttime seizures. It was really tough, you know, it was for the kids to go through that, our kids, our family.

[01:05:50] Uh, yeah. Yeah. Well, she was there, you know. Wow. She lived there 18 years. She worked there, you know, right across the street at the American Express building. She took the. [01:06:00] You know 9 15 training every morning, you know, and uh, uh, It was just that day like she actually got Transferred to another location and she really wasn't going to work there Uh at that time and we were like, oh crap, how are we gonna survive?

[01:06:20] She's not working. Mom's not working, you know but somehow She was saved from it because she got laid off. Like I said a couple You A couple of weeks before it happened, and then that whole stress from that, you know, we were all in the same boat, you know. And, uh, I would say after that, you know, I started getting my act together.

[01:06:41] Probably when I was working up in West Point, I started getting the joy out of surfing again. And, uh, and we were just sort of, sort of this part of this breakfast club down there. Washington, there's a bench that our wives got. Our names are on the bench. No way. There's like eight of us. Kenny Lewis and, you know, [01:07:00] Kenny, right?

[01:07:01] Doc Leo. No way. Yeah. Mark Laudergal. Ah, man. Big Ed at all, uh, or any of this? Well, Big Ed was around, but he didn't get the bench because he was, I think he was in Florida at the time. But we, we were all surfing every morning. So they named us the breakfast clubs. The wife was like, where are you going? Where are you going?

[01:07:19] Yami's. You know, the breakfast clubs there every morning at six o'clock, you know. And uh, you know, yeah, we were, we were all there and, and uh, you know, just had so much fun. Just surfing. The dates, I don't want to, you know, when that was, probably 2010, 2008, 2005, somewhere around there. We just surfed

[01:07:46] Tyler: all the time.

[01:07:47] How much of, um, like the camaraderie plays into your surfing? Oh, huge. We would have

[01:07:53] john: Christmas parties and just everybody would get together. We'd all have, you know, just fun. You know people would come here, you [01:08:00] know Uh, or we just meet somewhere. We were we were all really together. It was great And my joy for surfing was and I think I was surfing pretty good back then, you know at that time.

[01:08:11] So I was always Having fun You know getting those laughs off the jetties, you know perfect fun and uh Surfing one day I remember it was like freezing cold. I think it was four degrees. And it was probably one of the most magical days I ever had surfing here. I always loved surfing in the winter. It was so peaceful.

[01:08:32] Yeah. You know, so I love the way the rights sort of sort of wedge up a little bit on a northeast wind, you know. East swell and you can get those rights, you know. And, uh, anyway, so we're surfing Lafayette and, uh, Four degrees out, just still in the water. But there was a steam coming off, 'cause the water temperature was probably 42 and wearing these, you know, we're in our heavy suits and there was just like four of us.

[01:08:59] But it was [01:09:00] just magical. You know, things that stick in your mind with surfing. And one of those days, 'cause we're like, we're gonna go in at four degrees like, well, there's no wind . You know, there's a wave. Yeah, there's a wave. All the jetties were covered in ice, you know. We all had, like, we could all say, you know, that was just a special day, you know.

[01:09:21] You have that, right? Yeah. You have it in surfing, you know, surfing is one of those things you could have those days

[01:09:26] Tyler: that stick in your head, you know. And it could be even like an average day, too. Exactly. You know, it's just when you find a rhythm, you know, or when you're with a good crew like that, those days kind of stick out.

[01:09:39] Oh, they do. You know, I find those to be some and then they're unexpected too. Yeah. I love

[01:09:45] john: that Like the surf report would be like, oh, it's poor. Yeah, you know one to two foot Nobody's there. Then you go out there and like where'd this come from?

[01:09:54] Tyler: I know right? Those are the best because you have no expectations.

[01:09:58] Whereas You know, [01:10:00] I think the hype days end up being sometimes my least favorite days To surf because I know you feel like I should be enjoying this more This is like everything is together all the conditions everything said

[01:10:13] john: it's gonna be good to epic

[01:10:15] Tyler: Yeah, and it is and it may be good you just never are in the rhythm or something your expectations are high or it's Just shutting down a little too quickly or whatever it is and then it's like A few days later, you know, that you end up having your better session sometimes.

[01:10:32] And the peak of it, I

[01:10:34] john: find. I sit back now and I just walk down the block and just watch some amazing circuit. It is amazing what's going on now.

[01:10:42] Tyler: Isn't it? Unreal. Well, let's, I want to talk quickly about the break, Lito. And, I know. It changed. It's changed dramatically, hasn't it?

[01:10:53] john: Yeah. I used to ride, I used to live on, uh, Belmont.

[01:10:57] Yeah. Right over here. And I used to surf [01:11:00] Azores, you know, Pacific. And, uh, I'd ride my bike down here. Yeah. You know, and they nicknamed me Bicycle John. This is Bicycle John. Years ago, you know? 'cause I would always ride Toledo, you know, and you'd go through the little hole. The little hole. The little hole that you used to be you'd sneak in.

[01:11:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then like big Ed, wood, Woody. Yes. Woody. You know, all of these guys. So they started coming down from Lincoln. Yeah. You know, and it was just, I don't know, it was just better. Yeah. You know, it was always a little better, you know. But back then, I don't know, I never had any problem and I had some great rides, you know.

[01:11:38] And I, I think back, like, was it just easier or was I just younger, you know? And, and now I'm like, man, that place, you gotta be really careful. It thumps, like it's Thumping and dumping, you better be really in shape and quick to your feet and just, you know, I And that, you know, I, I was watching the other day on Sunday.

[01:11:59] [01:12:00] Yeah. Yeah. Just like, would you see the waves, son? Oh my god. Mind blowing. And I was watching just everybody like, Balram, you know, Joey, you know, all of these, Purina, Purina, you know, Joe. Yeah, true. Yeah. Yeah, and uh, You know, and Will, Will was out there and Mike was shooting. And it was just like, I was mesmerized.

[01:12:26] I just sat there and watched for hours, you know, Chris, you know, all of these really good surfers, you know, and, uh, and there was a couple of guys on long boards and I was like, they were killing it. Really? I was really pretty impressed. You know, and I'm like, I'm, I've been afraid to take my longboard out, but, you know, get broken in half, you know, and, uh, but yeah, that, and I, I guess it did change and I changed maybe, but what do you think about it?

[01:12:53] It's the break change.

[01:12:55] Tyler: The break change, it didn't used to be Lido Escondido, you know, I [01:13:00] feel like when I was younger and I first started surfing Lido, it was, it would get more swell, but it was Like manageable like it was fun. It was playful, you know, it was a lot of playful waves Okay, so I feel better.

[01:13:14] Yeah, and I thought the same thing and I think around the turn of the century You know early 2000s when something shifted And I don't know if it was stretching. I

[01:13:26] john: think it has a lot to do with the uh, jetty Yeah, you know west end two I really think that changed Changed everything, you know, because well they filled in that and You Ended that break, you know?

[01:13:38] And, uh, you know, little, sort of little weird things started happening, like, you never saw an outside cloud break. Yeah! And, uh, Lito, never saw that. No. Right?

[01:13:48] Tyler: No, it, I, I think the change of that jetty, the angle of that jetty, changed the, the sand flow. Sure. And, uh, You know, made it so that there were an outer [01:14:00] bar there where the swell now maybe wraps and kind of creates more of a wedged peak at Leto that it didn't do

[01:14:07] john: before.

[01:14:08] It always was a spot, like right there, where it is a spot now. I mean, that was always a spot, you know. Always, and like that in Townhouse too. But it was a softer, it was a softer wave. But it still had a nice, you know, you could get like an amazing long ride. Yeah, you know, but now it's just Thumps, it's just round.

[01:14:29] Yeah in this Quality and and and to tune in with the quality of surfers Yeah, you know what they're doing to that wave when it's that critical and you know I I was watching the other day. I'm like guys standing up. It's like knee. It's like knee deep Deep and it's Eight foot, you know, bumping

[01:14:52] Tyler: it's you know, I think part of it is I think the change of that jetty I think the sand there is change But [01:15:00] then what happened also is all these pro surfers started coming to New York to to get that and now like you have like You know, Nathan Florence and all these people from Hawaii flying in to get waves at our local break and all the grommets You And all the kids can now see, I mean, they could see from, from, you know, Bal and before Bal, Larry and, you know, and all those crew, you know, but it's now like the kids, the next generation is going to be absolutely incredible because they, all these pros come through town now and they get to learn from them, watch them, see how they do things.

[01:15:39] It's incredible. It's, and that comes, that takes me back to, Lido Surf and Sport, and what you guys did was lay that foundation for those things to happen. Yeah. You know, I really, honestly think, like, what, what you guys created burned bright, and a lot of [01:16:00] times things burn bright, but they're short, but man, like, it, it set a fuse.

[01:16:05] john: Yeah, yeah, I know, I, I, I, I agree. You know, it's, uh, that's why I said it's, you know, I look now and everything is just gravy for me. I agree. It's all a blessing, you know, these next whatever we go through and whatever life hands us, you know, I'm blessed, you know, it was a tough little road, but Uh, I get to see it all.

[01:16:30] Yeah, I saw it all, you know, do your kids still surf at all? Yeah, my son surfs. Yeah. Yeah, my son surfs like the girls just went in once in a while, but yeah, my son surfs he He's more into, you know volleyball and golfing Then really, you know, he never really hooked into it like I did, you know, and, uh, which is fine.

[01:16:54] You, you know, like, Maybe he saw the troubles and the tough times, I don't know.

[01:16:59] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:16:59] john: But he [01:17:00] loves it.

[01:17:01] Tyler: You know, it's, it's always, uh, I've always been, uh, curious about how you, how people introduce their kids to surfing and how Oh, we, we were out all the time. Yeah, right down the block. It's right here. Yeah, it was so much fun.

[01:17:14] So much fun. Yeah,

[01:17:16] john: yeah. Just, we, we just had, that was his board right there. Yeah. That was his board. He used to rip on that thing. Yeah, that's from, uh AJ. That's awesome. You know, you're a little tiny little thing, but yeah, yeah, we just, you know, take the, whatever, the baby carriage, the wheelbarrow down the block, you know, and just all jump in the water.

[01:17:36] Yeah. Fun.

[01:17:38] Tyler: When, when do you think you will be able to get back in the water, do you think?

[01:17:42] john: Well, uh, the doctors say I have like nine weeks of, you know, pretty aggressive treatment and, uh, after that. I'm going to be on a, on a pill for about a year, uh, but, uh, my energy [01:18:00] levels like really down, you know, so I, this, you know, I mean, I could probably, I thought I was going to try to paddle out the other day.

[01:18:07] Uh, and I had everything. I threw the longboard in the van. I got the, you know, all the, you know, I threw the wetsuit in there. And a couple of my friends were gonna jump out at, I don't know, we were gonna go Laurelton or something. Then I walked up the ramp and I'm like, I'm huffing and puffing walking up the ramp.

[01:18:24] There's no freaking way i'm going in the water. Oh, dude putting on a wetsuit Diane was like my wife was like, what are you crazy? You just had treatment yesterday. You can't go in the water and i'm like I gotta go in the water. I gotta go in the water, you know So it's gonna be sooner than later, even if I just paddle out just to get wet, you know and just i'm not gonna be really much of a wave, but we we it's funny because You know as you get older you sort of you don't need much.

[01:18:49] Yeah, you know You And, uh, it's an easy paddle out and if you can catch one, you know, what the heck, you know, I still got Rick Barry. 77 years old, we were talking [01:19:00] yesterday, he lives down, he spends the winters down in the Keys. He bought like a little single wife back in the day, you know. And, uh, so we were down visiting him and I spoke with him yesterday.

[01:19:11] He's like, yeah, we're going to go in in May, Johnny. Yeah, you'll see. May. So probably that's what I'm, you know, I want to get off. I don't want to put the five mil suit on. Oh. Yeah. You know, I got a nice three mil, you know, and, uh. And no gloves No gloves, no boots. Yeah. So I think I'm going to wait. What are you going to ride?

[01:19:32] I got a 9. 6. I got a, uh, you know, uh, John Salento turned me on to it as a Harley Ingram, I think. Ingleby. Harley Ingleby. Yeah. Yeah, I got this 9. 4 paper thin. It's just Performance. If you get it on the right wave, it's like a shortboard. Yeah. You know, and I have really had a lot of fun with it. Easy to get into waves.

[01:19:55] And, uh, Taylor, the guy, the long Taylor [01:20:00] Jensen. Taylor Jensen rips on those things, you know? And I was like, you know what, I'm buying myself a present. I was like, screw it, you know? Yeah. And uh, yeah, so I laid out the money for that and like, I just love it. So that's probably what I'll ride, you know. It's in the

[01:20:18] Tyler: van.

[01:20:18] It's in the van. It's ready to go.

[01:20:20] john: It's ready to go. You know.

[01:20:22] Tyler: I'll get out there. Who do you want to be with you surfing on that session? Well, I gotta be with

[01:20:28] john: Leo and Jeff Lett. Jeff Lett, big Gilgo guy. Yeah. You know, Jeff Lett's got some stories from Gilgo back in the day, and they're still going, you know?

[01:20:36] Leo's a little fun to surf with you, because he's always good. I love surfing with Leo. Yeah, man. You gotta love Leo, you know? It's like, uh, you know, talk about lemons to lemonade or whatever. You know, he, he, it's always good. Yeah. You know, until it gets double overhead. It's like, you know, I don't really know if it's breaking, you know, it really, I don't think it's right, [01:21:00] you know.

[01:21:00] But you know what, hey, we're old. Yeah, dude. Pushing 70, you know.

[01:21:05] Tyler: The fact that you're even considering that is, like, impressive. Right? You know, I'll be You gotta keep on, one foot

[01:21:11] john: in front of the other, man, just keep going.

[01:21:14] Tyler: Yeah, I was gonna ask, what's, what's the secret to longevity?

[01:21:20] john: Good question. You know, just keep exercising, right?

[01:21:23] Keep it moving. That's a tough thing for me right now because, you know, definitely yoga, you know, that's, you got to stay flexible, you know, but right now total hold mode, you know, I'm just trying to lift a little bit, you know, uh, my energy levels down. It's sort of a little frustrating, but. You know, I'm just not really sure how I'll be out there, you know, you know, you we know how demanding it is You know, it's really really demanding but it's so good for your spirit because you know If you just think about riding that wave whatever it is that you enjoy it doesn't matter golf whatever it is But if you know, [01:22:00] you have such a passion for it, you know, you're gonna want to keep keep yourself Well, you know, you don't want to drink like that 20 beers, you know, you don't want to you know, you gotta look at kelly slater.

[01:22:09] Yeah freaking guy's amazing. Yeah, right 50 came here. You know where he was he was at the health club. He was at He was at another great guy's health food store over here, you know Sometimes my brain slips me but he's another inspiration Bob, yeah, bob boogie board if you know uh He was, uh, not really, not a boogie boarder, but he was a body surfer.

[01:22:34] Mm-Hmm. , you know, the guy's probably 75, 76. I don't even know what it is, but he sold the store. But I would always be in there getting wheat grass juice, talking to Bob. Oh, I remember Bob Self. Yeah. Yeah. And then going there, uh, you know, right there on Park Avenue, you know, and, uh, and guess who was in there every day when they was here?

[01:22:54] Kelly Slater was in there twice a day, you know?

[01:22:57] Tyler: Getting his wheatgrass shots and everything, [01:23:00] yeah, you know,

[01:23:01] john: and that's what it is. He's still doing it, you know So when you have that passion of surfing or whatever it is doesn't have to be so yeah You know, but if you have really a desire to do that again In any sort of you know, not making an idiot, you know what I mean?

[01:23:16] You really want to do it I shouldn't say it though, but you know, you want to focus on whatever you have to do to stay healthy and well And you know, I used to say that when I used to do the first light surf report, I'd be like You know, you know what a swell's coming. Yeah, it's freaking one after another and I'm like, you know I would just tell everybody just You know, take care of yourself.

[01:23:38] Get ready. Take your vitamins Because it's coming, you know, you don't want to be like, yeah, i'm gonna go out and get messed up tonight, you know And then be like, oh man, you missed it. It was unreal, right? Why is that? Yeah, you know You

[01:23:54] Tyler: Anyway, well, John, I really appreciate your time [01:24:00] here and sitting with me and sharing some of your experiences and some of your stories and, you know, I know a lot of our listeners are going to be super stoked to hear this because

[01:24:10] john: I hope so.

[01:24:11] I love you guys, man. I love

[01:24:13] Tyler: you. Oh, we You know, like, I was telling you, like, sending you in the messages, like, dude, like, we all looked up to you, you know, we, you know, we all, absolutely, absolutely, we all did, absolutely, you know, me and Mike Matschmer, we were just talking the other day, we were just talking about how amazing you were, because you were the one in the shop at Lido.

[01:24:35] You know, you were the one that, that we saw, you know, I hardly saw Tom there. Like it was you who set that vibe, who created that energy, uh, for that shop. And to be honest, that energy reverberated and it's still reverberating now, I think. I really appreciate, you know, you

[01:24:53] john: don't, uh, I mean, uh, it's like emotional for me what you just said, because, uh, [01:25:00] you know, sometimes you don't feel that, you know, but, uh, I do look now back at it and I'm just so grateful and thankful and I don't know what else I could say, you know, I mean, I really appreciate that.

[01:25:13] That's nice that you just said that. But, you know, a lot of people were involved. Everybody was. It was just a, I just happened to be one of the pieces.

[01:25:26] Tyler: Yeah, well, you, you, you planted a lot of seeds and, and those. Seeds have really come to great fruition here and like I think You know, I'm fiercely proud of the New York surf community as I think you are and you know Not just like our older crew But even the younger people coming up like I still see it's funny as you get older in Surfing you see younger people and they're you know The times have changed, and things change, but the same level of, like, [01:26:00] enthusiasm, rites of passage, uh, all that sort of stuff hasn't, and I see a lot of the young surfers, and they're all kind of experiencing a lot of the things that we experience, too, and it's like nice, it's comforting to see.

[01:26:13] john: Yeah. Some things haven't changed.

[01:26:15] Tyler: Yeah, yeah. The camaraderie hasn't changed. The, the excitement for a lot of people, the, the novelty of surfing in New York is still there. You know, it's, it's still like the more things have changed. There's still a lot that has stayed the same, uh, in, in a positive way, I think.

[01:26:36] I think for, for us, like New York surfing is. You know, it's a real source of pride and I think you Definitely helped instill that. Well, thank you. Yeah, it was very nice.

[01:26:50] john: Yeah

[01:26:50] Tyler: No,

[01:26:51] john: I enjoyed this.

[01:26:52] Tyler: No me too. John. I really did. Thank you so much, man And um,

[01:26:56] john: like I said before I love you love all those everybody, [01:27:00] you know that had anything to do Well again back to the same thing, right?

[01:27:04] We gotta love one another. Yeah. So yeah, you know Let's do that. Right

[01:27:08] Tyler: and any any parting words or advice for for you know for the communities

[01:27:13] john: You know, you don't have to go into the pack, you know, don't surf with the pack, you know Just find a little spot. It doesn't have to be you know Listen, everybody thinks they're going to get that wave and they're going to go to hawaii and you know surf pipeline and just you know Listen, you know, it's it's it's That's really pretty amazing, but, if you could do that, but it's not like, that's not like an everyday thing for everybody, you know, so it's like just try to find more, more joy in it, you know, you don't have to ride whatever, whatever board you want to ride that you can catch a wave with, it's not all about, it's about being out there enjoying.

[01:27:51] Maybe you'll see a osprey, you know, dolphin, right? Yeah. Whales. All of them. Whales. [01:28:00] Yeah. You know, just take, take a step back and realize, you know, you're out in, you know, a beautiful environment. We're blessed to have it, right? Absolutely. And, uh, don't be afraid. So it's parting words stay away from the pack, you know, you're not ready for it.

[01:28:14] Go somewhere else There's a lot of beaches out there. You're right. There's a

[01:28:17] Tyler: ton of beaches Beaches and

[01:28:20] john: East Coast not like you serve in Malibu. Exactly. I'll find another break. So it's not double overhead. It's head high Yeah cares, right?

[01:28:29] Tyler: Man, shittier wave With less people and just my friends. With your friends, who

[01:28:35] john: cares?

[01:28:35] Who can holler when they get one, you know? Exactly. Right? Exactly. Oh. We're all not Will.

[01:28:41] Tyler: No! Right? You know, it's like We're all not Will. Will. Or Val. Or Ollie. Or Larry. Or Albert.

[01:28:51] john: Exactly. Or Charles. I know. I'll, I'll, I'll be okay with waist high. Alright. Yeah, with waist high with [01:29:00] my

[01:29:00] Tyler: old friends. Yeah, I like that.

[01:29:02] Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're still going. That'd be a good name for a book. Waist high with my friends. There you go. All right. John, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. All right, we'll see you next time, okay? You got it. All right.