The Cobbler with Jamie Meiselman
[00:00:00]
Tyler: Hello and welcome to the Swell [00:01:00] Season Surf podcast. I'm your host, Tyler Brewer.
Today's guest is one of the true innovators of modern board sports and a guy whose story weaves through snow surf business and a little bit of obsession. Jamie Meiselman grew up in Westfield, New Jersey, braving brutal East coast winters in the early days of cold water surfing back when wetsuits were more suggestion than technology.
At the same time, he was a part of Snowboarding's first wave riding the golf courses of New Jersey before the sport had fully found its footing. That passion led him to become managing editor of transworld Snowboarding from 92 to 95, right as the sport was exploding. From there, he moved into product innovation with black snowboards, helping develop some of the earliest EVA Midsoles for snowboard boots work that would eventually lead him to Burton, where he helped push forward the evolution of snowboard boot [00:02:00] technology.
Then his story takes a turn. Jamie headed to Columbia University for his MBA, but instead of taking a predictable path, he chased a bold and slightly crazy vision, helping pioneer one of the earliest true surf focused wave pool concepts. A massive undertaking, full of risk, setbacks and lessons. And then he came back to boots.
But this time for surfing in 2017, Jamie founded So Lite introducing the first heat, moldable surf booty, lightweight, high performance, and built with a relentless focus on function. So Lite has grown into one of the most respected and innovative surf boot brands in the world, lean, specialized, and quietly dominating its category.
Today we're diving into Jamie's journey from frozen New Jersey lineups to Snowboarding's early days wave pool ambition, and redefining surf footwear. It's an [00:03:00] honor to welcome Jamie Meiselman to the Swell Season Surf podcast. Welcome to the show, Jamie. I hope I didn't butcher anything or get it all wrong.
Or butcher your last name. Tyler.
Jamie: You butchered my last name.
Tyler: I did.
Jamie: It's Meiselman.
Tyler: Yeah, Meiselman. Sorry.
Jamie: But everybody does that so No worries.
Tyler: That's alright. I'm human, you know?
Jamie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tyler: Um, uh, listeners, forgive me, but I'm about to glaze Jamie for a minute here. I just gotta say like how much I appreciated your journey and like everything you've done and the risk taking you've done is just like, it's inspirational.
Like I doing the research for this and listening to other podcasts with you and reading up on your own. It's just like. Fuck man, this guy like puts it out there and has this like obsession too. Like it seems like you have, you have this ability to have almost like a one track mind in some ways. And I really appreciate that very much.
'cause I, I obviously, I think I identify with it. I'm also in this, in the [00:04:00] process of, you know, I've just started a, launched a company as well, so I obviously identify a lot with what you've done and what you're doing, and I just really appreciate everything that you've done. Like, it's, it's amazing. Like you've got this incredible story and it's, I'm so excited to be able to tell it here.
Jamie: Well, thanks. I mean, you know, the one takeaway from all that is it's definitely not all rainbows and unicorns.
Tyler: No, no.
Jamie: That's the thing. High, high reward, high failure. Um, you know, there's, there's highs and lows and, and there's plenty of lows. And I think what gets you out of them, as you realize. That you're gonna pull something positive out of it.
I mean, it's kind of, it doesn't kill you, make you stronger. Kind of a cliche, but it's, but it's true. I mean, when you, like the wave pool thing was absolutely brutal. I mean, I mean, it's still brutal, right? Yeah. 'cause it is happening all around me now. Right. Like the, the idea of a surf park, you know, the, I was one of the first ones and actually went after it in, uh, 2004 is when we
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: [00:05:00] Closed on the financing to build the thing in Orlando. That, that we never opened. But 20 years later it's happening. And, but I committed like five years of my life to that thing, only to see it go up and smoke. It was like, hadn't get outta that.
Tyler: You got like a fucking MBA for that too. Yeah. Like that was your like, reason to leave, like pretty leisure lifestyle.
Jamie: Yeah. I mean, it was when I, I was, I was let go at Burton and it's sort of like, what am I gonna do next? And I sitting there in Vermont, like with a lot of idle time and I was like, and I had surfed. Typhoon Lagoon, or I knew like that you could surf wave pools. Yeah. And, and everyone was like, eh, it's pretty good, but it's not like, you know, it's weak or whatever.
Yeah. It's, it's, it's almost good. And I'm like, how can you not figure out a way to make a good wave? It's gotta be doable. Yeah. And I kinda launched into that. Like you said, I just kinda launched into it, but there wasn't, I mean, the internet, I, I was in a dial up modem. Yeah. And this was 19. The, the idea in it came in my head in 1999.
So it was [00:06:00] like the internet, the, the web was like really rudimentary and it was like, doing research was tough. Um, so it was like,
Tyler: there was nothing out there. Like what would you, you know, like where would you even find that sort of stuff,
you
Jamie: know?
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: It was like bits and pieces of related things, right?
Yeah. Like, oh, there's, there's wave pool. So someone knows how to make waves in a pool.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And. At the time, they were just starting to do like, exploration of artificial reefs or real reefs. Yeah. Like they were serving pipeline in Tua. Yeah. Like they knew what the bottom looked like.
Tyler: Pratt's Reef, they had already attempted Yeah.
At that point, around that time Yeah. As well. Yeah. And then I know like in Australia they were, they were trying one Mout, there was another one in England. Yeah. You know, so it was like a lot of attempts at that too.
Jamie: Yeah. And it, and it was so, it was like, yeah, you're assembling these bits and pieces of science of and reassembling them, which is kind of what soul light is.
But we'll get back, we'll get to that later. Like Yeah. You know, you're, you're, you're just driving your [00:07:00] inspiration from somewhat related things, but then putting it back together in a new, in a new novel way.
Tyler: I feel like that's like a theme of yours in life. Totally. You know, like, you, like I was listening to this other podcast and you were like, talking about these Franken boots you made.
Yeah. You know, like, you, you, you know, Burton allowed you to kind of create a prototype mm-hmm. For them, and you just frankensteined it together. I think that's, but that's like what Steve Jobs did too, you know, like taking bits and great things from different things mm-hmm. And bringing them together. Yeah.
You know, it's oftentimes a lot of innovations are never the one thing that's created. It's someone who sees that mm-hmm. And puts it into something else that's more useful.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. I mean that, it's, it's totally true. I mean, the, the first patent I ever got was on a snowboard boot design, and, and I was in college.
Jesus. So I was in school and I was on the, you know, back in the day, the New England Cup and the Green Mountain Series. It was late eighties, early nineties, competing as a snowboarder Yeah. Snowboard [00:08:00] in the, in the early days. And back then it was, you know, pretty bad soft boots and soft bindings and, and pretty bad hard boots and plate bindings.
Everything was just kind of like in development and not very good. Either your feet really hurt or the performance was, there was always something. So like Yeah.
Tyler: Sores man.
Jamie: Yeah. So I literally was like, I took. Bits and pieces of soft boots, bits and pieces of hard boots, like, and just cobbled everything together.
Like in the engineering school, they had like a, a workshop, you know, like a machine shop. And the guy, everyone's looking at me like, what the hell is this guy? Like, 'cause I mean, but there was some cool stuff going on there. There was a dude, there was a dude in the engineering school. He at
Tyler: Dartmouth?
Jamie: Yeah.
Like, yeah. So I was up in the mountains and, and there was a guy making, um, carbon fiber bike frames.
Tyler: Jeez.
Jamie: Like back before that carbon fiber. Wow. And this guy went on to be like an engineer at Cannondale, whatever. Like, but there was some, they were very open-minded about, oh, you want to mess around with boots?
Go ahead. You know, they would just let you do it. That didn't cost me anything. And so I was cobbling these things together and then showing up on Saturday at like, [00:09:00] you know, a New England Cup race. And everyone's like, what the, you know, but, but it was funny 'cause I wasn't the only one. Like, there were other people doing it.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Um, like different kind of things. Everybody was experimenting and like, it was cool. Like every Saturday you'd show up at a race, he'd be like, all right, what's, what's, you know, what's Dave Lemu gonna have on his feet? And like, what kind of, because every board was different. Every body was different.
That, you know, I was like a, a low level sponsored guy by Burton, you know, just getting like a couple free boards or whatever. Yeah. And so I had a relationship, at least with the company, and, and somehow I, you know, got to Jake and, you know, he can do what I was doing. And I'm like, and he is like, Hey, you know, do you wanna like do this for us?
Like, you know, I'll, I'll pay you or I'll give you, I'll, I'll give you like free equipment in exchange and I'll give you all the boots and bindings you need to cut up and, and cobble.
Tyler: He, he's like, I'm not gonna let anyone out, out innovate me.
Jamie: Exactly. So
Tyler: competitive.
Jamie: Very, yeah. He's so competitive. And you, you, you know, I've talked about that, you know, other podcasts, but like, but, but I will [00:10:00] say what was really cool is at the end of the day, they didn't use my designs.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: But Jake gave the ip the intellectual property back to me. Wow. He's like, you can have it. And, and I ended up selling the, and I went out and I applied for patents. Wow. And I got 'em. And I sold the patents to K two because K two actually came out with my boot as a step in. Like they actually did it.
Tyler: How much did that, what? How much was that?
Jamie: It wasn't it, I mean,
Tyler: is that a six pack and a
Jamie: couple pairs? Well,
Tyler: the gyro board
Jamie: that they had, it paid it. It paid for my kids' first year at college and that's about it. Oh damn.
Tyler: That's pretty good.
Jamie: That's about it. That's alright. But it, you know, it was a great experience.
Right. Just to like take something from idea to completion, to a follow through.
Tyler: You're like, but you, you've, you're like a very early adopter of a lot of things it feels like. And you're also have this like obsessive kind of mentality. Would you say that
Jamie: [00:11:00] definitely.
Tyler: Was that always, was that always part of your life growing up?
Were you always like that?
Jamie: Yeah, I think, I think I'm sort of like an all or nothing kind of guy when it comes to my pursuits, my activities. Um, you know, sometimes it can be to a fault. Um, but I think if you really wanna accomplish something and you kind of have to be that way. I mean, I didn't choose to be this way, just the way I am.
Um, but I, but I have become sort of self-aware of that now. Yeah. So like, when I'm, when I'm approaching things, like I'll obsess about like, oh, I, you know, I want to get new chairs for the, for the kitchen, right? Yeah. For the kitchen table. And then I'll freaking obsess about kitchen table chairs until I either, you know, until we get the chairs.
But, but now I'm aware of that. I'm like, dude, stop it. Stop it. You're obsessing about stupid things.
Tyler: My wife will, my wife will be like, you know, we should really get like a nice lounge chair. Mm-hmm. And next thing you know, I'm on my phone. You, you go in lounge chairs. Totally. And I'm looking for like, the reviews and trying to [00:12:00] see every little thing.
And then I'm thinking, what if they did this with this, and what if they did that instead? And start like, I'm the can identify with that.
Jamie: Like, I wanna, I wanna find out. Everything I can
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: About that, that, that sphere. And what's bothering me now is that I'm getting ai, right? Yeah. Ai, ai, ai, ai, ai. Well, I'm getting, as a small business owner
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: You know, running a brand, you know, my feed on Instagram and everything else is just bombarded with AI tools.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And I'm just like, oh, I gotta learn. I wanna learn about all these things. Yeah. But I gotta tell you, it's just totally overwhelming. Like, it's, it's too much.
Tyler: I, I struggle with that. Like, I, I, for like, it's so funny, like for a month it was like all AI, social media stuff.
Jamie: Mm-hmm.
Tyler: And, and I went and bit the bullet I did. And actually it works really well, right. Believe it or not, like certain things I do find it to be good, but like some things, it could be a bit of a distraction as well. Mm-hmm. And it's like, and it [00:13:00] just lead, leads you down a different path maybe. Mm-hmm. But you discover things too along that.
Yeah. I guess.
Jamie: Yeah. Well, what I'm discovering with AI tools that they're all like. Really early stage startups. Totally. And they, they present themselves like they're Microsoft or whatever. Oh yeah. But it's like so buggy and so much like
Tyler: it is glitch.
Jamie: So Yeah. There's lots of glitches. There's a lot of glitches.
Totally. But I do like, you know, again, I'm, we're a small business. I mean, Solight is myself, my partner, Tyler Callaway, who's an og, long Island guy. Legend. Yeah. Legend. Okay. So I figured you would know who he is. Right?
Tyler: I've never met him personally. Right. But I, I mean, he's, he's, he's got a huge footprint.
Mm-hmm. You know, he's been legendary, you know, like
Jamie: he should be your next, your next podcast
Tyler: make the introduction. I would love to be kidding me. Like,
Jamie: yeah.
Tyler: I fucking, I'll totally nerd out with
Jamie: him. Yeah. I mean, so, so it's, it's, we're, you know, we're like talking about mom and pop. I mean, it's Tyler and I, you know, I've got a lot of sort of consultants that I, you know, that I use to, to help perform tasks that I, that I [00:14:00] can't do.
But, you know. There's so many tools now available. It started really like with Shopify. Yeah. And like where you can run a brand Yeah. Um, that used to might have cost you millions of dollars and now it costs you hundreds or a couple thousand Yeah. To, to do. So it's, it's more and more of a possibility to start a brand.
Not that it's easy. No. It's still, still as hard as it's always been. Oh man. But you have these tools at your disposal to, to make it possible. The
Tyler: bar of entry
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: Is a lot lower. Like
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: You know, uh, listeners, I started a company, if you wanna check it out, it's called Everyday Objects, novelty Gift Items for your Home, by the way.
Little Plug. Mm-hmm. But it was like, it started with, you know, I was working at a company that I had dreamed about working for and it's kind of similar to you going to work for Burton. Yeah. And then it just didn't work out Right. And got let go. And I was like, you know, these product people make it seem like fucking alchemy here.
I can fucking do this. And then I just started playing with Cha GPT mm-hmm. And start playing ground with [00:15:00] product ideas and then yeah. God. Like it cuts down so much time going to a product designer then
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: With almost like a finished
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: Outline of what you want. Mm-hmm. Instead of having to go back and forth like 10, 20 times.
Yeah. You cut out so much time there. Mm-hmm. And then it's like, okay, I, I work with designers to help with the branding and stuff. That's definitely not my forte. Mm-hmm. But then like everything else, like QuickBooks, right?
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: So freaking automated. Yeah. Like you drag and drop a PDF of an order in there Yeah.
And it reads it for you. Yeah. And it puts it in you, you get a three PL warehouse who does all the delivery services and it makes it really efficient. Mm-hmm. You know, a CRM for following up with customers and like all these tools are, you know, really reasonably priced.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: Yeah. And unfortunately in some ways, like you're not hiring a lot of people, which kind of sucks, but on the other hand you're like, well, I couldn't afford these people
Jamie: anyway.
I was gonna say, you can only hire people if you have the sales to, to afford to pay for 'em. Exactly. And so, exactly. But yeah, that's the point is like you can, you can develop. A, a [00:16:00] fully functioning business with very low overhead.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And grow it.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: From there.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Um, now that's gotten easier.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Selling and being successful hasn't gotten any easier. It
Tyler: is,
Jamie: yeah.
Tyler: It is one of the hardest things, like, and I am, I am a sales person and I mm-hmm. I grew up doing sales and I'm, I'm fucking good when I'm on the sales floor, a trade show, like I can sell. You know, anything, you know? Mm-hmm. But it's, it's still very hard and there's so much more competition Yeah.
Than ever before. Yeah. And it's harder to get noticed and it's harder to stick out. Mm-hmm. And all of these things are, are, are also lifting the bar and products are amazing out there. Yeah. People are making really creative, amazing products. So. It's just that much more competitive too. It's
Jamie: competitive and that's why with Solight, like we're super focused
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: On a, on a niche. It's
Tyler: so
Jamie: smart. And we're like kind of the top of the pyramid of that, of the, you know, water sports world is like mm-hmm. We don't make cheap stuff, we make like premium pricing in a [00:17:00] hardcore sport. Already the people that are using 'em are already, you know, already kind of like the top of the pyramid in terms of cold water and everything else.
And, but I feel like if you're just really focused
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Then it's EI don't wanna say easier, but you're, you know, who you're targeting. Mm-hmm. And it's, and now these days I can, you know, I mean, I don't do it now. I have, I have consultants that, you know, for Google for meta
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: That know how to say, oh, you wanna reach people in Oregon who mm-hmm.
Who surf in the, in the winter. Okay. We can do that. You know? Yeah. So I can, I can pinpoint, um, my market. I have a very niche market, but at least I can find them and, and target them. And no, I'm not this broad based
Tyler: No.
Jamie: Like, I, I, I never envied like. Clothing brands. Like it's just fashion. Like, like who's your, like it's fashion.
I have no interest in that. Nothing. Well,
Tyler: the thing is like, what you make is performance based.
Jamie: Yeah. Its, that's all I wanna do.
Tyler: Yeah. And, and that is a very, it's very clear when you have a good product. Yeah. Whereas fashion, like you can have a shit, it comes and goes [00:18:00] shit product and it's all, it's all fashion.
It's style. Right. It goes in and out and like it, and you have to be lucky or know the trends, you know? Yeah. And, and so it's, it's not so much about the performance and yours is like, great. 'cause that is almost like you can control that more. Yeah. You can have more of a say you can, you're not as, um, vulnerable to the winds of change.
Jamie: Yeah. In
Tyler: that
Jamie: way. Yeah. It always scared me. I didn't, I wasn't interested, it just didn't interest in me. But like, if you notice my career, like all the things I've done, I was always the target customer. Yeah. So whether it was in the snowboard industry or a wave pool
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Or the solight stuff, it's like. I am the customer.
That was the only thing that ever interested me. Like, oh, I, I think I can come up, I think I know the, the mindset of who I'm making things for, because I I'm the person.
Tyler: Totally. Absolutely. Well, you're making it for yourself. Absolutely.
Jamie: So, you know, it's gotta pass that bar. Um, and that's, I just think that's, for me, that's what's compelling.
You know, I'm just always trying to make better stuff that I want to use that's gonna make my [00:19:00] experience more fun, you know, more better.
Tyler: Well, I want to, I want to go back a little bit and I want to know, like you grew up in, in, in, uh, Westfield, New Jersey.
Jamie: Yep. Yep.
Tyler: I, I almost got that wrong, uh, taxi before.
Yeah. Uh, talking about AI slop. Um, but, but I'm curious, like what started first view skating or surfing or, yeah, skateboarding. Skateboarding,
Jamie: yeah, for sure. I mean, so. I was a kid of this, of the, like born in 69. So in the late seventies, you know, I'm nine, 10 years old. And that's when that first skate park boom happened?
Tyler: Yes.
Jamie: Um,
Tyler: my dad owned one of them. Which, which one? In New York. One in Long Island in Farmingdale.
Jamie: I, I skated there.
Tyler: Yeah,
Jamie: that was that skateboard, USA or something? I
Tyler: think so, yeah.
Jamie: Or no, no. It might be a concrete wave or something.
Tyler: It was concrete wave and um,
Jamie: oh my God. That
Tyler: was
Jamie: your dad?
Tyler: That was my dad and uh, two partners who screwed him really badly.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: But
Jamie: I went there, so, so yeah, I, um, so that was my, I was fortunate in that [00:20:00] it was like I was able to skate at all these parks in Jersey, like Cherry Hill? Yeah. All the ones in the Jersey Shore. There were a lot of 'em. And in Long Island. And so, yeah, my, I was like at 9, 10, 11, 12-year-old, just again, I'm obsessive, right?
Yeah. So I obsessed about skateboarding and that's all I wanted to do. And then BMX.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Um, but the thing is, when you're. As you know, when you're a skateboarder, especially back then, you know, your, your window to the world was Skateboarder Magazine and it was published by Surfer. Yeah. And so you would get exposed to surfing.
Tyler: Totally.
Jamie: And so, and, and at that point it's like, it wasn't even a question. It's just like, well, of course I'm gonna surf.
Tyler: Yeah,
Jamie: yeah. Like, like this is what you do. Like if you're a skateboarder and, um, you know, and, but Westfield is inland Westfield's. Well, I mean, it's like 45 minutes to the beach to one of the greatest malls
Tyler: in America.
Jamie: Well, no, that's the name of the mall company. I know, but there's no malls in Westfield. Yeah, but it's not like a beach town. It's, it's inland. And, [00:21:00] um, but we had a, my aunt, um, her husband, they bought a house in Bridge Hampton in the sixties. Oh wow. Wow. So they had a house not on the beach, but across the street, ocean Road.
Mm-hmm. In Bridge Hampton that, that they had in the sixties and seventies. And so I would go there. For the summers when I was a little kid. Yeah. And so that's where I was really like exposed to actual people surfing.
Tyler: Nice.
Jamie: And so, but when I was, you know, and, and then we ended up, they got divorced, so we didn't have access to that house anymore.
But it's funny 'cause kids from Jersey wouldn't normally go to the Hamptons, right? Yeah. They would go to the Jersey Shore. Mm-hmm. But because we had that connection, we just kept going out there and we started renting a house there. And then we bought a, my parents bought a piece of property in Bridge Hampton in like 1985, which was the smartest thing they ever serious, smartest investment they ever made.
Tyler: Fuck man. Serious.
Jamie: I mean, I, it was like, you know, I don't even, you know,
Tyler: cheap. That's gen, that's like almost generational [00:22:00] wealth now, you
Jamie: know? Yeah. It's cheap. So, so they built a house like in 86 and so that, so I would just, you know, I was, I was, that's where I would go. And so I, I really learned to surf out there.
Tyler: Wow.
Jamie: Um, and then once I was old enough to get my driver's license, then I would just go, you know, drive to surfing Jersey more often. So I kind of grew up, you know, eighties, nineties, and, you know, eighties, nineties, early nineties until I went to college, you know, surfing Jersey in Long Island. And that's
Tyler: just, just taking the armpit of the US right there, you know?
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: Um, were you, what were you, were your parents supportive of that? Were they like, 'cause I know skating and surfing back then was, was, you know, generally frowned upon by a lot of people
Jamie: and I was curious. Yes. I mean, they, they knew that I loved it and it made me happy. So they, they weren't like discouraging.
Yeah. But they weren't at the same time, like encouraging. Like I would have to beg that, you know, listen, I'm a little kid, I'd be like, can you dad take me to the skate park? You know? Yeah. 'cause it's like a half a day of, you know, of his time on his weekends when he is not working, you know, and it's like, so I always would have to [00:23:00] like beg.
It wasn't like, you see like, like helicopter parents now that are like
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: You know, getting, you know, taking their kids, doing to everything. Sending him to the summer camps. Yeah. Like in Woodward. And all this stuff. Like, it was not, they weren't not over the top supportive, but they were not discouraging, but it was, yeah, it was all pretty much my, my initiative to, to do this stuff.
Tyler: Were you the only kid too, or is there, did you have any siblings?
Jamie: Um, no, I, I, I had an older sister and, um, but yeah, I was, it was just, it was just me. But I had friends, I mean, all my, all my friends, of course, all my friends in, in, in Westfield, we all skated and we were like the original, I mean, snowboarding.
I, I think,
Tyler: do you, do you remember your first snowboard session?
Jamie: It's the same thing with skateboarding, right? Like, because you, you see Skateboarder Magazine Yeah. And in 1978, and then all of a sudden there's an ad for Burton or Sims or Barfoot. Mm-hmm. And you're like, well, duh. I mean, it snows here, so of course I'm gonna do that.
You know, and I, I'm trying to, I mean, you know, the snowboards didn't really exist, so it was like s surfers, so I [00:24:00] probably tried to sn her. And then, I mean, I've told this, this story on the, the Aron Rad podcast, but like we made. Snowboards in wood shop in middle school. So that was probably the first one I had.
Mr.
Tyler: Reynolds. Huh?
Jamie: Yeah, Mr. Reynolds, my man, you got a good memory. Um, and so, yeah, it wasn't, it, it wasn't until like 80, 81 that I bought a proper snowboard for 45
Tyler: bucks,
Jamie: apparently. Yeah. Yeah. In pennies.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah. And so, and then, yeah, it was, I mean, I wish, man, I mean, this winter's epic been, been epic here.
Crazy. We've had like a foot of snow on the ground for over a month.
Tyler: Oh my God. I wish I was a kid again. Yep. You know? Yeah. Like, I, um, you know, I grew up, you know, my dad owned ski shops. Mm-hmm. So we were one of the first Steelers of Burton in Long Island I'm sure. And so I, you know, we had like the first snowboards mm-hmm.
Growing up. And we had a, we were, where we lived, we were surrounded by woods and hills. Mm-hmm. So it was like, almost like back country snowboarding for us and just going around and going, making jumps and everything and that. But it. [00:25:00] What was so cool about that time period, I think, is that it's very DIY.
Yeah. You know, there's nothing in front of you, like, there's no path forward. Mm-hmm. You know, you had to forge your own. There's nothing now like, where it's all blazed out. Mm-hmm. And, you know, everyone kind of just follows a similar path in some ways. Like, you didn't know where this was going, you didn't know if it was gonna be something or not.
Like, and I'm curious, like, you know, how much do you think that has impacted your whole rest of your life? That, that DIY attitude towards it?
Jamie: Yeah. I, I think that it's a little bit, it's just good timing, right? Yeah. Like, like, like I said, we were really fortunate, like, like to get into the beginning of even skateboarding, right?
Yeah. Like, you watch everything in front of you and you're just, you're a part of the progression, right, of the innovation of both the, the activity itself and the equipment.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And then stepped right into snowboarding. Same thing. Right? And so, and so, I don't know, like I said, if it's as like nature or nurture, but like.
I've always had [00:26:00] that attitude of like, how can I, you know, make this better? How can I make this better? And it w and like, I mean, like, if I were in jumping into snowboarding now, I'd be like, I don't, I don't know. I mean, there, the stuff's all great, you know? Yeah. I mean, there's this step in boots and bindings and all the other there, like
Tyler: ev the improvements are micro improvements.
Yeah. They're not like giant leaps.
Jamie: Right, right. You
Tyler: know?
Jamie: But even with surfing, like surfboards is like, everything's kind of been done. But what's cool about making my own boards is that it's your own, like personal journey. It's a, yeah. Corny word to use, but like, I make a board, I surf it a lot, and I figure out what I don't like and what I do like, and then I can just go back and make the tweak and just, and it just keeps going from there.
Keeps going. And then, and it's not always like. Progression, you know, upward curve. It's always getting better. Sometimes you go down dead ends, or not even dead end, you're just like, eh, I'm kind of tired of this. I'm gonna try something else. Now it's, and but you're just always tweaking it. [00:27:00] Yeah. Well
Tyler: that tinkering in that, um, I think there's like this incentive reward to it.
Mm-hmm. You know, where like you make a, make a change and you see what happens. This experimentation, there's this anticipation towards it as well. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's this gratification where you're almost getting like a little dopamine rush. Mm-hmm. When you first feel that feel that you were like either expecting or not expecting.
Mm-hmm. You know? And I think that's something that I think still exists in, in definitely in surfing, I think. Yeah. And snowboarding, it feels like maybe like the, the, the, you know, the, the, the, you know, the no boarding or the, the No, yeah. No binding kind of snowboarding is kind of in that, that kind of vein a little bit.
But it's, yeah. It's hard to find, like in skateboarding, like. Whatcha are you gonna do with skateboarding that's gonna change the skateboard, you know? Yeah. It's, it's kind of, kind of already there. Yeah. You know?
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: And I think like having that, uh, being [00:28:00] able to do that has probably helped your whole rest of your career in life.
Mm-hmm. And how you pro approach things, I imagine.
Jamie: Yeah. It's fun with solight, like, the thing I love the most, I mean, I actually love running the business and like almost everything about it.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: But the, but the, the fun thing for the funnest thing for me, the thing I take the most pleasure in is the development of products.
Right? Yeah. And like, I'm never satisfied. I'm always, the nice thing is I have customer feedback. Yeah. Every day, all day. I'm, I'm communicating with customers. They have problems. They like this, they don't like this. It's all going into this like database in my brain of like, okay, how can I, you know, and I'm, I'm, I'm always developing something new.
Yeah. We're trying to make it better. It's funny because Solight started, the idea was I wanted to make gloves. Yeah. Talk about a niche.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: I wanted to make surf
gloves.
Jamie: Super niche. Yeah.
Tyler: Because everyone hates gloves.
Jamie: Everyone hates gloves.
Tyler: No one likes wearing gloves.
Jamie: Right.
Tyler: I don't know anyone who's like,
Jamie: yeah.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: I, it's gloves season. It's like, I don't mind boots. I hate gloves.
Tyler: Yeah, totally.
Jamie: And I always did. And they were leaky, [00:29:00] they're cumbersome. You have like, you know, your hands are like, flopping around in the water and I just, you know, slip, they're slipping on the rails, like all these bad things. And I'm like, oh, you know.
I, I became pretty familiar with injection molded EVA, which is like how a croc sandal is made.
Tyler: Well, that, I mean, listeners like this guy invented base. You basically kind of helped propel that in snowboard boots, which changed everything in that whole industry,
Jamie: I guess. I guess it, I don't know, like there, because there's different ways to make EVA midsoles you can compression mold them.
Yeah. Which is like, you know, you like, it sounds like you just smush, smush it into shape.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Or you injection mold, which is the opposite, where you're injecting into a mold and the mold's like half the size of the final product.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And then it pops outs like, like popcorn. Yeah. With blacks, we were the first ones to do the injected EVA midsole, which actually has like better properties in 'cause you're not compressing the foam.
Tyler: Exactly.
Jamie: So it's like more springy and, and lighter and more durable. It has
Tyler: memory to it,
Jamie: basically. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's [00:30:00] like a surfboard blank. Think about it, right? When you're blowing a blank. Like it's expanding. Exactly. You're not contracting, you're not compressing it.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: Um,
Tyler: makes
Jamie: it
Tyler: lighter.
Jamie: So, so that tech was pretty early days back then, and then it was pretty crude and I, it's gotten a lot better.
Um, and I was like, no one had ever done it. And I'm like, I would love to make a surf glove that has no seams. It's like one piece pops out of a mold. And that was the idea behind Solight. And that was like, I don't know, I think it was like 2011. I, I think, and, um. So I, I, I, I like designed it and found a mold factory in Asia that would, that would make it, and we, and it, and we made like these prototypes and they would do, they look like Hull cans, you know, that's, you know, the green thing.
Yeah. They looked like that. And I took it out and, and they were like, you couldn't get the foam to be like neoprene, like super soft and flexible. Yeah. It was soft ish, but it wasn't like neoprene. And I was just like, paddling with these big hole hands. And I'm like,
Tyler: they're like, they're like floating too, I imagine.
Yeah. You know, they're probably like full of air, you
Jamie: [00:31:00] know. Yeah. And they were bright yellow too. Oh my gosh. So you could see 'em from a helicopter. It was pretty funny. But like, I just, and I, and I'm like, I don't know, you know, about if this is gonna work. And then I remember I saw, I, I knew Tyler Callaway, you know, who's my partner now.
Yeah. Because he was one of the investors in surf parks and he, you know, and, um, I saw him at the, uh, Quicksilver Pro in Long Beach.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: You know,
Tyler: good times.
Jamie: Yeah. And, and I was like, Hey. And I had, I brought him with me and I'm, Hey, what do you think? And he was kinda like. Ah. He's like, he's like
Tyler: gloves.
Jamie: Yeah.
He's like, you know, 'cause he was, he was, he was running FCS at the time. Mm-hmm. He's like a surf industry heavy. He's got a, you know, reef and Rusty and Ffc
Tyler: s and dude, the guy is like legendary
Jamie: listeners. Yeah. And, you know, he grew up with Ricky Rasmuson. Yeah. And, you know, he's writing a book right now, which, um, you know, I'll, I'll try to, I, I think he's getting ready to publish it, like to self-publish it.
Wow. But, so he's got, it's all basically each, each chapter's a story.
Tyler: Nice.
Jamie: You know, of, of his, I mean, 'cause the guy just grew up eating, [00:32:00] breathing, living, surf.
Tyler: His, his trajectory is like with the surf industry, you know? Yeah. Like he, he can tell you the whole rise and fall, the surf industry through stories.
Yeah. Basically. Which would be fascinating.
Jamie: So he was my, you know, my sort of sounding board, right? Yeah. For the idea. And he was like, well. He's like, you know, gloves, that's a tiny market. He's like, but maybe, you know, maybe try boots, you know, you know footwear. Yeah. You know how to make boots. Why don't, why don't we do, why don't you try Boots?
And so, yeah. Long story short is we did, and we, you know, we formed the company together and I, you know, I had him to help me, you know, all along the way to, to get it up and running. Um,
Tyler: that'ss so sick though. Yeah. I mean, like, and it's like you've, you've kind of changed a lot of it in, you know, the game basically in, in, in a lot of ways.
Do you, let me ask then, like, how is it with competitors and do you, have you seen anyone trying to copy what you do or do anything similar? Either
Jamie: Not yet. And man, I hope that they're ignoring me.
Tyler: Yes.
Jamie: Um, that's why, I mean, I, I try to, [00:33:00] you know, I mean, I, I look at the. The lessons of the past, like the surf industry is just booms and bust and booms, but they get too big and they get, they get greedy.
Mm-hmm. And they wanna become the next Nike. And you, you know the story, right? Oh yeah. They're all now owned by one guy. Yeah. You know, who probably his office is probably up the street from here in Manhattan. And so it's, it's not, it's, it's not pretty. And I, you know, and Tyler too, we both have the same mindset, which is like, you don't, you know, be clean and mean and lean, you know, like you don't need to be this giant company, like focus on something, do it really well, you know, hopefully that'll insulate you from competitors and, and.
You know, I don't need to, you know, sell zillions of boots and, and gloves and everything. I just wanna make really good ones that people love.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Keep making them better, kind of in my own little world and, and hopefully, you know, people ignore me.
Tyler: Well, I think it, it sounds like [00:34:00] you have a very process oriented approach as opposed to an end goal.
Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. Like a lot of people who start businesses wanna get rich, right. Or want to grow to massive heights. And, and I think that's where, especially in a, in a, in like sports, like surfing, snowboarding, skateboarding, where core is still really important mm-hmm. To a lot of the people who do it.
Mm-hmm. And they want that coolness with the brand. They want that relationship with it. Yeah. And I think, you know, Billabong, Quicksilver, like they got went public. Demands then to grow constantly. Yeah. And lost that whole demographic basically. And sold out and, you know, and stopped making good product and started making stuff that was chasing trends instead of making trends.
Right. And, uh, you know, this whole capitalist structure that we're in, that's always like more and more and more. And I think that approach that you're doing is probably the healthier, better approach to keeping core and keeping [00:35:00] that, that, uh, that, uh, customer base,
Jamie: you know? Yeah. I, I, I think that, you know, I'm not, yeah.
I'm, when I'm 56 Tyler's in the sixties, like, you kind of learn over time. You learn the l you know, you pick up these lessons Yeah. And you're like, yeah. For me, it's, it's not about getting rich, it's not about getting big. To me, what I enjoy the most, like I said, is like developing the products, like making cool stuff that I can use and that other people enjoy and like, I don't need to make millions of dollars.
I. I enjoy the process.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And it's like, it's not, it's not the end goal. Yeah. It's not, oh, you're gonna sell out someday and make millions, or you're gonna, you're gonna, you know, be a hundred million dollar company. Like, that's not the goal.
Tyler: Exactly.
Jamie: Yeah. The goal is to enjoy what I'm doing and make good stuff that other people enjoy.
Like, that's, it.
Tyler: It, it must be, it must have been pretty liberating for you to, to start this company. You know, like, you, so listeners, like, just a little brief, you know, we said in the intro his, his background, but like, he, he worked at [00:36:00] transworld, he worked for Burton, he worked for Blacks, he worked for other people.
And then like, you know, we, we will dive into the Wave Pool thing, but you know, with Solight, like you've, you know, it's your own company, basically. It's you and Tyler and you get to make your own schedule. Mm-hmm. You get to wake up and kind of decide what you're gonna do that day. Obviously you have obligations, but it's like, there's something nice about that.
Like, I'm just experiencing that now. Yeah. Myself. And it's a, it's really. Uh, gratifying to have that and like, you almost don't, like I've been in companies where they've grown too fast mm-hmm. Too soon and overextend themselves and get stressed out and it's not enjoyable anymore. Right. And then the product and everything and the culture and everything suffers because of that.
Jamie: Yeah. I, on balance, I'm happy this way.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Like that. It's, that it's ours. I don't have a boss. Um, but to be clear,
Tyler: yeah.
Jamie: I work seven days a week.
Tyler: Of course.
Jamie: I go on quote unquote vacation. I'm not on [00:37:00] vacation. I'm always dealing with stuff. Of course, we're not big enough that I can just. You know, walk away for two weeks and someone will take, will do my job.
Like, so, so that's the downside. But again, on balance, I'm okay with that. Right. Like,
Tyler: but it's, it's, it's enjoyable. Like, you get to, for the most
Jamie: part,
Tyler: you get to enjoy an email with people like me. You know, you're like, that's it is, I bought boots and then you wrote me like, Hey, love the show. And I
Jamie: was
Tyler: like, no way.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: He's fucking emailing
Jamie: me. I, I love that. But to, to be fair, I mean, there are times where, yeah, it would be nice if I could like, walk away for it, from it for a week. Yeah. Just to like, but I can't.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: So,
Tyler: but that's every, every business owner, you know, I think, like I watch my dad with his store. Mm-hmm.
Like we'd go on vacation every day.
Jamie: He's on
Tyler: the phone call. He's on the phone, you know, and this is even before email, you know, it's always, you're always worried about it. Mm-hmm. You know, to a certain extent. Yeah. You always have orders you gotta fulfill. Yeah. And you always have, you know, all these things.
I mean, luckily the technology makes it easy that you can be somewhere [00:38:00] nice and do that at times.
Jamie: Yeah. That's the thing. You know, like I was just in Costa Rica, I was testing like rash guards and hats and new reef boots and all this stuff. And I'm like, it's great. I'm in Costa Rica. Yeah. But then I get outta the water and I go sit down at a desk for four hours.
Yeah, okay. But, all right. I'm not com this is not a complain.
Tyler: No, no, no. You do that. But it's also, and to be honest, like again, AI and technology has made us so productive. Yeah. That in that four hours, you probably got more done than like 15 years ago. Yeah. You would've gotten in a few days.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and the downside is, like I said, I work all the time.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And you know, like I deal with Asia Right. For a lot of production. Yeah. And. That doesn't really kick in till eight, nine o'clock at night. Yeah. Just when I'm like settling in for the night, then it's like, ugh, all these emails do this and chat messages come in and yeah. So yeah, I mean it's, it's, it's not, like I said, it's not rainbows and unicorns, but
Tyler: No,
Jamie: on balance.
I'll take it over going, you know, nine to five commuting to the city, like my wife, who is really solely responsible for [00:39:00] actually making all this possible.
Tyler: It's nice having a sugar mama, right?
Jamie: Yeah,
Tyler: yeah. I know. Me too.
Jamie: She, she's, she works, you know, I mean, she, she, she commutes in now three days a week, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, which isn't as bad.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Um, but yeah, I mean, that's the story you don't hear, right? It is like. The, the behind, behind the, uh,
Tyler: no,
Jamie: you know, like, like the support structure behind like, like the Jake Bird story, right? Like, you, you don't hear much about the fact that his wife's family were, you know, billionaires.
Tyler: Totally.
Jamie: And they got him, you know, like he had this support structure
Tyler: he had.
It's not, yeah. Like you, you, he started when there was hardly anyone snowboarding. Yeah. Like, how are you gonna carry yourself through lean
Jamie: tide and Yeah. He had the support. Yeah. I mean all, all that being said, he was obsessive like me. Mm-hmm. He was insanely competitive and it wouldn't have been as successful, even with all the money, without his work ethic and his drive.
Tyler: It's not taking anything away from that.
Jamie: No,
Tyler: I, I think I always have to, you know, 'cause I'm, I'm in a very fortunate position too [00:40:00] where, where like I have support networks. Mm-hmm. I think it's really important that people are aware of that though.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: Because I think there are people who compare themselves.
Jamie: Mm-hmm.
Tyler: And I've had, like, I have friends who are like, oh, look at what you're doing. I'm like, yeah. But I have
Jamie: Right.
Tyler: All of this around me. Yeah. That I'm very fortunate for and I'm very grateful for. Right. And appreciative. Um, but don't like, take that as I'm this, pull myself up by the bootstraps type of person, you know?
Yeah.
Jamie: You had some resources. Like these
Tyler: people
Jamie: don't like to talk about that, but it
Tyler: Yeah. Jeff Bezos.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: You know, like he had a lot of money he came from, you know, like there was a lot of, a lot of people like that. Yeah. And we, we, we tend to kind of glaze over that in the company stories a lot of time.
Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. And that, and also the balancing act, uh, that no one talks about is like how you balance that obsession with. Your home life Yeah. And your relationships.
Jamie: Yeah. You have to, you have a family, you have to make a living. You have kids. You, you have to make time for them. Everyth, you have to be present.
Everything. Yeah.
Tyler: How, how does that, [00:41:00] how does that work in your household? Well, how do you, how do you be present?
Jamie: I mean, it, it's funny because, I mean, my kids are now 24 and 20 about to be 27, and so they're outta the house and one lives in Brooklyn and one lives in, uh, la But when they were in the house, yeah.
You know, I was always working from home, so I was present. Right. Yeah. Because I was the guy picking, you know, picking 'em up from school, taking 'em, doing a lot, doing a lot of that stuff. So in a way, it's even better, right? Yeah. Because I'm not commuting and spending hours, you know, hours a day away from home.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: So I certainly put in the time with the boys, which was great. Um, but you know, Lisa, my wife, you know, was commuting to the city.
Tyler: Was
Jamie: there
Tyler: resentment at
Jamie: all? Yeah, absolutely. She, she'd be the first to say that.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: You know? Um. But, you know, um, she's, you know, she, she got to see him play. I mean, you know, we we're, we're, we've done well, our kids are good, everybody's happy.
Tyler: Getting tips for a guy [00:42:00] like me who's, who's venturing into that kind of process as well, or balancing it.
Jamie: I would say that less is more when it comes to parenting. You know, I, I, I mean, it's funny that we're, now we're having, we're, we're switching the two, uh, parenting tips, but, uh,
Tyler: well, I'm a cat parent, so,
Jamie: okay,
Tyler: so, but like relationship,
Jamie: you know, more, you know, we, you and I are like latchkey kids, right?
We grew up seventies and eighties, like parents weren't around. We just went out, rode our bikes where our skateboards discovered and learned on our own. And that's becoming a lost art. Yeah. So now every kid's programmed and scheduled and like, they can't think for themselves. They're not like everything's put in front of them.
And, uh, that's a bad thing. Yeah. And I think with our kids, I tried to let them screw up within, you know, put up guardrails. Yeah. I didn't, over over, we did, we didn't over manage them and it worked.
Tyler: And your relationship self with your wife? How about that? Like how do you balance that? I'm always like, 'cause that's the one that I always struggle with.
Mm-hmm. [00:43:00] Because I, I become so obsessive or one track minded. Mm-hmm. Sometimes you tend to forget
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: Your other duties as well.
Jamie: Yeah. I mean it's, we've always, we've always both worked.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: So we always, were basically doing our, doing our thing during the day and we would, you know, sort of come together, you know, around dinner time.
Yeah. You know, I mean, the night, I gotta tell you, it's nice. I, I wake up, she, she takes the train from Jersey to the city, like, you know, train bus 7:00 AM So I now drive her to the bus or the train every morning. So we have that morning time and then I pick her up.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: So we have, and then, you know, again, we're empty nesters now, so we got all, we got all evening and everything.
We don't have to worry about shuttling the kids around. So. Yeah. It, it's, it's funny. I mean, we're like, does she
Tyler: surf or snowboard as well?
Jamie: She snowboards. She doesn't surf. I've, I've, I've taken her surfing like once or twice and she's gotten zero interest in it.
Tyler: My wife
Jamie: too. Zero interest. Even my kids like my kids snowboard.
They're good snowboarders. Um, I insisted like, you know, I'm like, course. Got it. [00:44:00] And even, even Lisa, like, I think it might have been part of the wedding vows, like, you will snowboard, you won't ski.
Tyler: That's epic.
Jamie: Yeah. Like, I made it, I made it very clear. Um, but they don't, like, I mean, it's, listen, it's hard to be a surfer if you don't live at the beach.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: My kids grew up inland.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And so I, yeah. We'd go on vacations and I'd, and I'd throw 'em in the water with me and be, Hey, come surf. And like, they don't wanna be kooks, so like Yeah. They, they're like jocks, you know, like they grew up playing football. Mm-hmm. And lacrosse and basketball. They're my, my older one's six.
Six, my, or six five. Damn. My younger one's six three and like. Yeah. In Westfield you become a ball sport person. Yeah. You're not a skateboarder or a surfer. Um, so that's what they grew up in. You know, I was an, I was kind of unusual in that I was kind of attracted to board sports
Tyler: And you had a beach in the summer Yeah.
Which helped, you know, like kind of promote that as well. Yeah. I think, and plus also like, kids don't want to do what their parents do.
Jamie: Yeah. You [00:45:00] know,
Tyler: that's the other thing.
Jamie: Yeah. It's true. Like they, I mean, snowboarding they wanted to do. Yeah. And, and, and guess what? It's really fun. Like, and once you get good at it, you're like, okay, I like this.
Yeah.
Tyler: There's a steep learning curve too. Yeah. You know, like you get good, you get at pretty decent pretty quickly. Yeah. As opposed to like surfing where
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: You're a kook for a long ass time.
Jamie: Yeah. It's funny 'cause they didn't really know my background in snowboarding in snowboarding world. Right. Really.
And then. I rem like when they listened to the podcast of me being interviewed and about snowboard stuff, they're like, oh my God, I didn't even meet even like my sister. She's like, I, she listened to it. She's like, I had no idea what you did.
Tyler: That's epic.
Jamie: Yeah. My sister lives in, in, in France though, so, to be fair, but
Tyler: where in France?
Jamie: She lives in Paris.
Tyler: Oh, okay. I was gonna say in the mountains. That
Jamie: pretty nice. No, no, no. But she, yeah, it is pretty funny. They're kind of clueless. Um, that's okay.
Tyler: That's,
Jamie: yeah.
Tyler: That's kind of cool though.
Jamie: You Yeah, totally. Cool. I mean, I'm totally humble. Like, like Lisa gives zero shits about like the accomplishments, you know?
It keeps me humble. [00:46:00]
Tyler: Same. I, I think that's really important actually. Like Yeah. 'cause it Yeah. It keeps you grounded. Yeah. Whereas if you're around someone who does those things too and then becomes like, yeah. You can kind of get caught up in your own kind of funk, you know? Yeah. And like start to believe your own, your shit smells amazing, you know?
Jamie: Yeah. It's kind of cool 'cause I've always been a little bit removed from the epicenters. I mean, I only lived. Like at the beach?
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: For like three years of my life. When I was in San Diego at transworld, I lived in Del Mar and Solana Beach. So I was like, oh, you know, I don't even wanna say I was a local, but I was like, yeah, I lived at the beach ev for the rest of my 56 years.
I was like, I'm an inland like kook. You know, like, and it keeps you detached, it keeps you removed, but it definitely keeps you hungry. Like, I remember what, for those three years, when I lived at the beach, I lived across the street on, I was on 25th Street. I could walk, I could throw a Frisbee to the, to the surf spot.
I lost the [00:47:00] drive the, to surf every day to like, like the passion that I, that you have when you're here on the East Coast.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: Where when you're inland, like when I was at at Dartmouth, that's two hours from New Hampshire, Maine coast surf surf's awesome there.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: But it doesn't get good very often.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: But like. I was so hardcore like, and it was also cold as shit. Yeah. Like, like I was on it. Like if there were waves, I was on it, you know? Yeah. So it becomes a whole day thing. And that's, and when I was at, like at Burton in Vermont, it's like three hours.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Even worse. And like, so, and now you know where I am in Jersey.
It's not bad. Like I can get to the beach in 45 minutes in Jersey, I, if the wind is north, I can go to Long Beach or Rockaway in an hour. Although with traffic on the belt, that's not really true anymore. The
Tyler: belt is brutal.
Jamie: Yes. I mean, it could take three hours. It's like 20 miles away. The crow flies, but it could take three hours.
Tyler: Well, yeah. Well now, now you have a place. If you need to get changed, you can get I live right on the beach rock. Yes. I'm like right there. Yeah. And it. [00:48:00] I will say, yes, I'm not as hungry mm-hmm. To surf. I'll be a little bit more choosy. But
Jamie: you, you get lazy too. 'cause you only wanna surf in front of your house, right?
Like,
Tyler: oh yeah, dude, are you kidding? Yeah. Well, I, I will walk, I'll walk, okay. To an mt peak. Right. I will, I will do what I can to avoid crowd as much as possible.
Jamie: Right.
Tyler: Um, but it's still like, like I never go to Long Beach anymore to surf. See, I never go anywhere else.
Jamie: That's what's cool about my existence now.
Yeah. Is that, you know, I make a call where to go.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And I'm, and I, and it's based on where I think it's gonna be best. And so I'm not lazy, like I'm driving an hour no matter what. So like, and I, and I'll even check multiple spots because I'm already, you know, in the car or whatever. But like when I'm in Bridge Hampton,
Tyler: man.
Jamie: Yeah. I, all I wanna do is surf on, on Ocean Road. Of course,
Tyler: of course. Man. Now, now
Jamie: I feel lazy. God forbid I gotta go to, you know, Georgica or something. Yeah. Or Montauk.
Tyler: I know.
Jamie: Yeah,
Tyler: I know. I've Now I sound lazy. Yeah, no, it's not lazy, it's just convenient and I'm trying to be pra [00:49:00] pragmatic.
Jamie: Yeah. And, and I guess also you're, you're maybe at the stage in your life where you gotta be really, um, efficient with your time, right?
You got other obligations.
Tyler: Yeah. Yeah. You know, that that's where I'm not like a kid who can kind of just go and explore all over anymore. I need to be back and part of, part of the deal with my wife to move the Rockaways so I didn't have to go to too many places and I could be
Jamie: You're a good negotiator.
Tyler: Yeah. You know,
Jamie: well done.
Tyler: I think. So I don't get to go on as many surf trips anymore, but
Jamie: that's coming back now. Like there was a period Yeah, yeah. Of time when you have kids and you know, you have a life and you, you're balancing all those things where the surf trips were, you know, you're lucky to do one a year, but now I'm ramping it up.
Tyler: So I want to like, I want to dive in a little here. Like you, you went to Dartmouth. Mm-hmm. Like you were, you were a good student, I guess, like, you, like you have to be to get into Dartmouth, right? Like, but you weren't, like, you didn't have, like, it seems like, from what I've read and everything, like you didn't have like a [00:50:00] singular motivation going there.
You weren't like, I'm gonna be an engineer, I'm gonna be this, like, no, it was purely like, kind of open and there wasn't much of a snowboard industry at that time. But like, were, what were you, what was your thought process? Were you thinking of a future then of a career, or were you just like, I'm gonna just see what happens.
Jamie: I wanted to go be near the mountains.
Tyler: Yeah. And that
Jamie: was it. So I was like, what's the best school I can get into? Because, you know, listen, you grow up in the northeast, there is a, there's a mindset, right? Yeah. Which is you go to college. Yep. And then you
Tyler: get
Jamie: a job, you get a job. Whereas like all my friends who grew up in California, Southern California are like, college is like, man, one option.
Yeah. And if you go, you know, five, six years, you know, whatever, however long it takes. But here in, you know, growing up in the tri-state, it's like that's, you know, I think Westfield High School, like 95% of the kids go to four year college, you know, right after 12th grade.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And so it, I wasn't, you know, that was, I didn't think it really had a choice.
So it's like, okay, well where, where's the best place I [00:51:00] can go? That's either at the beach or in the mountains.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And, um, and yeah, so, and I think also I played lacrosse, which, but not like. Well, but we were state champs two years in a row, and back then it was like, I played for two years. I played baseball till 10th grade and then switched to lacrosse and somehow, you know, fooled the, the coach I think into getting, you know, getting in, getting like that helped you, that helping get, get in.
I played for Dartmouth like my freshman year, but like didn't give a shit. I just wanted to snowboard. I actually told the, the coach who, like, I saw the coach on the mountain, you know? No, no way. Like, and, and I was like, Hey, you know, like, 'cause lacrosse in, in college starts in February, February 1st. Oh man.
Is when you like start. And I, and I was competing, like I said, at like on the New England cups and all those. And I, and I'm like, I'm like, Hey man, like. I don't think, I can't, you know, like I can't do both. And he, and it wasn't like I was such a great player, he was like, yeah, whatever. Go snowboard.
Tyler: And then you start like a snowboard club and [00:52:00] everything, or team and shit.
Like, that's crazy. That's so fucking
Jamie: cool. Yeah, I mean, like I said, we were in that at that time where everything was ahead of us and everything was just to be created there. Like there we just, we just, we just did it. You know, like Dartmouth has a ski area and at the time when I got there, they didn't allow snowboarding.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: But they have well back, which is right down the road in New Hampshire, um, had allowed snowboarding. So my freshman year I was just riding there and, and teaching there. And then I found a couple other kids who snowboarded at Dartmouth and were like, Hey, let's start a club. Let's lobby the ski way, the Dartmouth place to open snowboarding.
And we did it.
Tyler: That's so rad.
Jamie: Um, so then we just started riding there more and then teaching phys ed. Dartmouth added, you know, they have a, Dartmouth is like a ski university. Yeah. Like they say, there's tons of Dartmouth people in the Olympics right now in Italy. Whether it's cross country or downhill or, or everything.
Right. Yeah. They're just, it's a ski school. Yeah. And they had ski school at the. For phys ed, for gym, you could take [00:53:00] ski lessons. And then they, they also added snowboarding lessons. So I got paid and got credit for teaching snowboarding in, in school. It was, it was awesome.
Tyler: So listeners just, if you, if you weren't around then there, snowboarding was not allowed on most of the mountains.
I remember like, even like my brother and I going and we got, we weren't allowed to take the lift up. We had to walk up, got fucking yelled at Uhhuh. And I'm curious like what that temp tension must have been like between the skiers and snowboarders at school. That must, was, was there tension or was there
Jamie: like No,
Tyler: it was
Jamie: cool know, because it's, because if you think about like Dartmouth, skiway, it's literally all students.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And it's like your friends, like people that you see like in the fraternity and like just, and so they didn't get, it wasn't that, that animosity, I mean, we'd make jokes. Like I had a lot of the dudes. Who were on the ski team. Like serious, out like Olympic skiers? Yeah. That were like in my fraternity.
And we would bust each other's balls all the time, but then we would go to Tuckerman Ravine and like, like we were doing gnarly stuff together. So there was like some mutual respect. And I, I would train with the ski [00:54:00] team like I would in the, in the fall and in the summer, like I would do the dry land stuff with 'em.
Wow. And like, and then sometimes, occasionally I would go to races. Like we would have a race in the same place. I'd go on their buses. So like, yeah, it was, it was, it was friendly, you know, banter, but like. We all got along.
Tyler: Yeah. And you were like a snow, you were a mogul snowboarder too.
Jamie: Well, back then you just did everything.
Tyler: But like, that was like your forte and
Jamie: Yeah, it was.
Tyler: The skiers must have been like, you're fucking up the moguls.
Jamie: Yeah. Well we were like, I was good enough that like, people couldn't say that, you know, at moguls, but most, most people, yeah, they're pretty bad. But most skiers suck in moguls too.
Tyler: True, true. Yeah.
But you, you had a fateful meeting around that time, uh, like the US open in a urinal, didn't you?
Jamie: That sounds really creepy.
Tyler: I know. That's how I meant to make it sound.
Jamie: Yeah, yeah.
Tyler: Tell, tell us about that.
Jamie: Yeah. I met, I met, um, Kevin, er, who was the editor [00:55:00] of transworld Snowboarding. Literally had just started like that year, like, um, it was 88 US Open.
Tyler: Wow.
Jamie: And, yeah, and, and, um, he was just so happy to meet a competitor. Who could write. 'cause you know, we just start talking and I told him, Hey, I'm a student. I'm an English major, so I guess I was 88. I was a sophomore.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Um, no, I came in, no. Wow. I was a freshman, so, uh, and I was an English major and he was just happy to meet a snowboarder who could write Yeah.
Or at least theory could write. And so yeah, he started throwing me little, little freelance, um, articles to write. And that's kind of how I, my career as a, as a snowboard journalist started.
Tyler: That must have been, that's like a, a zag you probably didn't see coming at the time.
Jamie: Oh man. I guess not. Like, I think I, I knew like, even then, like, 'cause I was so [00:56:00] into snowboarding Yeah.
I'm like, oh, I would love to work in the snowboard industry. Yeah. But I, I thought it was gonna be like a product guy. Yeah. Like a boot guy or a board guy or something like that. So, no, I didn't think it was gonna take the, the journalistic. Direct direction. Although, I mean, I was like editor of our school newspaper in high school, so I was a, I was a writer and I was a journalist, and I even wrote For The Dartmouth, which was a, a daily newspaper, at least my freshman year.
Wow. So I had a little bit of like training.
Tyler: You had the chops,
Jamie: I had journalistic training, by the way, my, my fraternity brother and Dartmouth was Jake Tapper
Tyler: shut the front door.
Jamie: Yeah. So, and he's also a, you know, classically trained journalist.
Tyler: Yeah. And, and a, and a cartoonist as well.
Jamie: Yeah. That's what all he did in college.
He, he wasn't a a, a writer. He was, he wrote the he did the cartoon
Tyler: Exactly. Every
Jamie: day.
Tyler: Exactly. Yeah. You know,
Jamie: he was great.
Tyler: My, my, my, uh, stepsister used to work for him.
Jamie: Yeah. He's awesome. Yeah. So, so yeah, it was so I knew like, like I'm like, duh, I could, I could do this. Like, this is a great way to snowboard and like somehow make a living.
Um, [00:57:00] and, um, so I started writing for transworld pretty regularly. I would go, I got internships in the summer. I would go out to San Diego, which. I was all about that. Right. Because I could surf. I mean, I was still a surfer, like was number one, kind of,
Tyler: of course.
Jamie: Um,
Tyler: everything el like look, we all surf, we snowboard and skate.
But surfing is always number one. You may be better at snowboarding, may have more opportunities there, but surfing is still true. Gonna always
Jamie: true.
Tyler: It's always, you're always like that. That's funny. Like I grew up snowboarding, skiing, but I, at one point I made a conscious decision, you know what, like I'm not gonna snowboard 'cause I feel like I'm chasing, it's just a cheaper version of surfing.
Mm-hmm. I don't want to cheapen it for me. Mm-hmm. Controversial take. I know.
Jamie: No, that, well, I mean, snowboarding's expensive.
Tyler: Yeah. Well all of them are.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: You know,
Jamie: with snowboarding, for me the progression stopped because it just started getting too gnarly and like it just became huge jumps, rails, all these things.
And as you get older you're like, I'm not going down that route.
Tyler: No way.
Jamie: But with surfing. You know, you fall, it's, you know, water.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: [00:58:00] And I still feel like I'm at least aspire to get better.
Tyler: Yeah. Yeah.
Jamie: Right. With snowboarding, I don't aspire to get better. I know that's not gonna happen, but at least with surfing, I know I can still get better with
Tyler: surfing.
You can also chase feels. Yes. I think that's the other thing that keeps it interesting as you get older, like, you know, like, like it's funny, like Matt Warshaw doesn't surf that much from mm-hmm. From encyclopedia surfing, and part of it is because he feels like he's not improving anymore. Yeah. So it's really not as enjoyable for him.
But for me, I'm like, I may not be improving. Like, I'm not busting airs, but I am chasing a feeling now. Yeah. Chasing to go fast or feel a drive or feel something
Jamie: different and you're getting better at that.
Tyler: Yeah. You know? Or, or
Jamie: because you need to feel progression.
Tyler: Yeah. Like yeah,
Jamie: whatever that, and I'm, I mean, that's a good point because I'm sort of in that.
I don't wanna say I'm struggling, but I'm definitely like, thinking about that. Like, I, I, the last couple boards, I made a couple seven foot boards for me. Yeah. Which is like a mid length for me. Yeah. Just because like, it's such a trendy thing. I'm like, ah, what, what is this all about? And like, I get out and surf 'em and, [00:59:00] and it's an adjustment.
You're like, you're like, well this sucks compared to my, you know, five 11.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Like, but then you, then I put just two big twin kills on it. Yes. And then I slowed my mind down and I started just approaching it differently. And you're like, oh, okay. Yeah. That's a new feel that. I would like to get better at.
Exactly. And I can get better at.
Tyler: Exactly. And you can try and there's so many different boards to chase different feelings and go down rabbit holes.
Jamie: Yeah. And what's scary is that I can make the boards, I know, I just go back and
Tyler: I just wanna make a board for good bottom turns. Right. I don't even care about the off lip.
Right. Just make a good bottom turn board. And that is like the feeling I'm going after. Mm-hmm. Or I just want to feel something highline a little bit more. Right. And chase that. And, and that's, that's the beauty of getting older with surfing, I think if you have that attitude. Yeah. As opposed to like, some people I know that still ride, you know, potato chip.
Short boards. Yeah. And you're like, they're in their mid fifties and probably a little, little [01:00:00] overweight like me even. And, you know, struggling when it's small and you're like, well, I could be having fun trying something a little different. Yeah. You know,
Jamie: and that's why I started shaping is because I didn't see boards, all the boards that were coming out, they didn't appeal to me.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: I hated pointy nose, like super narrow nose boards.
Tyler: Right.
Jamie: And I'm like a pretty big dude. Like, I'm like, I was like 200, 2 10, like a lot of weight in my like Yeah. Shoulders and, and the, you know, they just didn't paddle well. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, why can I make like a, I don't mind, a shorter board, but make it wider in the front.
Mm-hmm. And then once Slater started doing those, like the Wizards six or Wizards, I'm like, that's kind of the more of the board I wanna make. And so, but I was, I mean, I always looked at Shapers, like shaman, I'm like, this is a dark art. Like I have no, like, how the hell do they do this? And then Brian opened green Light in Jersey and it was like the first kind of DIYS supply stuff.
Like, it was back like 2008, 2009. Brilliant. And he, and he and he and, and YouTube and Sway lock started coming out. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, and I started like looking, I'm like, oh, this is not like [01:01:00] a dark art. It's actually like a step-by-step process. Yeah. That you, you can, maybe I, 'cause I'm not, I don't consider myself like a craftsman.
I don't consider myself like an artist really good with my hands or anything. Mm-hmm. And I realized like, it's actually not that.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Building boards is process.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And it's funny you were talking to St. Christopher Yes. Surfboards. And you're talking about art as boards and, and I've got good friends I grew up with who are serious artists.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And I get into conversations with them and they're talking about process.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: They're not like closing their eyes and like feeling this divine inspiration. They're like, here's how I create this effect. And it's like very not scientific. Yeah. But it's like ABS and C'S steps. Yeah.
Tyler: It's all
Jamie: steps. And that's actually what's more interesting to them.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: The process. And so I realized you can, that's how you make boards. So I, I started making boards like in 2009, like in my garage. Because I wanted to make those kind of shapes.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And I've been doing it ever since.
Tyler: That's so rad.
Jamie: Um, and I just, [01:02:00] but to me it's not, it's just fun. You know,
Tyler: again, it's, it's, you're, you're a very process oriented person.
Mm-hmm. It seems, and you, you do these steps and those steps are one, allow you to be present, you know, which I think is a feeling that many of us are chasing.
Jamie: Mm-hmm.
Tyler: Um, chasing that, like, when we surf, at least we're present on the wave. Right? Yeah. And, and so we're, and with surfboard shaping, it's like this.
Beautiful process. You have these steps and you have all these different levels that you have to do. Yeah. There's like the cutting of the blank and then there's, you know, mowing it down and then there's the refinement. Yeah. And there are these, how many steps you took on this side and how many steps you're taking on the other side.
Yeah. And how many laps you do. And then like, you're doing fucking laminating, which is like,
Jamie: I love, I love
Tyler: it. The hardest thing,
Jamie: I love board building and I love, and like it is super therapeutic. Yeah. And it is like, um, yeah. It's like relaxing. But it's funny. I actually like glassing and sanding. Wow. Yeah.
I think you, I heard you, I heard you say in that prior when [01:03:00] like, nobody likes glass. Nobody
Tyler: likes
Jamie: glass. I actually like glassing and sanding more than shaping.
Tyler: Wow.
Jamie: I just, I just, I think it's harder.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And I just, and I, I don't know. I just, I just like it more and, and, um, I also, because maybe I'm a pragmatist, like what I'm making a board.
I want it to be what I want it. What I envisioned.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And so I now design it on the, on, on, on, uh, shape 3D. Mm-hmm. I get it cut usually now, like I said by Mike Becker out in Long Island. And then I know that what's cut is what I intended.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: So it takes the, you know, I don't wanna even say the, the art out of, but it takes like the, the, the error out of Yeah.
You're getting the shape you want.
Tyler: Yeah, exactly.
Jamie: And unless you really screw up the glassing, you're gonna get that shape. Um, and so I like, yeah. I, I just, again, it's very, it's very practical and function and performance driven. Like I, I, I love making boards.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: But I love riding those boards more.
Tyler: Well, who does
Jamie: it?
Do, you know? So like, if I'm making a board, it's [01:04:00] because I want it to work well, of course. Like, it's not just the, the art of the process. Like, I, I actually want it to work well. And I actually, I, I just, I just like glassing.
Tyler: Well, the glassing is probably. One of the most important parts of a board and how it feels, you know,
Jamie: I would say not so much how it, well, yeah.
The choice
Tyler: reflects and
Jamie: how you do your lap. Yeah. Your choice of your laminate.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Your choice of what resin you're using,
Tyler: the lapse you do.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. And, and the fin placement and all these other things For sure. Impacts it.
Tyler: The sanding even, you know, would, would, you know, rough glass, gloss coat, you know, spray, quer spray, all that sort of stuff.
Yeah. There's, there's a lot of different steps in there.
Jamie: Yeah. You can, you can definitely change the character of the board big time with, with glassing, but that's a decision you're sort of making beforehand.
Tyler: You also control the rails a little, the edge more so with the glassing, you know, all that stuff.
Very important.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: So I think like I could see the appeal
Jamie: for
Tyler: you.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. Well that's what's nice about building it start to finish, right? Yeah. Is like, I know the intent from the get from the day, from day one, so when I [01:05:00] get that blank that I still have to go now work on
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: To, to refine it. I know I'm the designer, so I know how I want it to end up.
And then when I. Lay out the fins and when I laminated it, you know, it's all my, it's all me. So I have no else to blame but myself if it sucks.
Tyler: Well, it's, it's, it's such a, you know. I think every surfer should try to shape aboard at some point in their life, I think. Mm-hmm. That's a really, I think it's a rite of passage that has to happen at some
Jamie: point.
I think more than shape, I mean, build like A to Z,
Tyler: you know, for some of us who don't have the space, you know? Yeah.
Jamie: But you're not gonna do it at home. Go somewhere, you know, go somewhere, go to a friend or someone who does and do it there.
Tyler: Or you can, if you live in the city, you can do like certain friends who've glassed on rooftops or in kitchens like Chris.
Jamie: Well, if you ever wanna, if you ever wanna do anything, come to my house, I got the full kit,
full
Tyler: setup. Let's, let's come up with some fucking crazy ideas. You, me and Becker will come up with like a crazy fucking design. Yeah. With flex [01:06:00] and Yeah. Something that, uh, that is like a system with your boots that you do Yeah.
For performance enhancing and stuff like that. You were talking, I was texting listeners. I was texting with him and he is like, you know, I'm gonna make a concave deck. And I'm like, oh, now you need to make boots that fit that concave, you know, to help with the, you know, the transfer of power and energy from heel to toe.
See, I've always thought, like, it would be interesting to make like a boot that's almost like totally flat on the bottom. Mm-hmm. You know, where it's just like, almost like suction cup type of thing.
Jamie: Mm-hmm. Now you got me thinking.
Tyler: I know.
Jamie: I mean, I've, at Solight, my philosophy with making boots is always the best surf boot is barefoot.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Right. So anything I do to take that's going away from that direction is worse. And so, like, barefoot is the best grip. It's the best feel, the best control. And so making boots, it's like, I'm just trying to make a boot that. Disappears [01:07:00] on your foot.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: And for a concave deck, I mean, to me the di the directive is still like, make it feel like barefoot.
Mm-hmm. Or like on a skateboard. Right. The concave skateboard deck.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: You know, you don't want your shoes to be like too big and bulky when you're not feeling the concave
Tyler: Totally.
Jamie: With your foot. Yeah. Like you wanna be locked in. So. I don't know, but, uh, the idea of like creating some sort of like stiffener that's running across the bottom of your foot to transmit energy.
I don't know, man. Yeah, you got me thinking.
Tyler: Yeah. And then, and there's also performance enhancing boots I've always talked about where like,
Jamie: like those, it carbon insoles where you can jump higher or run faster,
Tyler: something like that. Or even like in the ankles support mm-hmm. Because a lot of guys are busting airs and busting their ankles.
Yeah. I'm kind of surprised there hasn't been something like that.
Jamie: No, we, we've, we've talked about that, like in the development process with some of the athletes and like, like you have more support or, um, yeah.
Tyler: Or if you've seen the STO things
Jamie: they
Tyler: keep, you know, like they're like the wire, the dials and the wires that go around your knee and everything.
Like, I was like, why [01:08:00] aren't people doing this in wetsuits?
Jamie: Mm.
Tyler: You know, like do a little like kind of, I know Quicksilver was the
Jamie: wetsuits.
Tyler: Yeah. Well, Quicksilver was toying around with it in like 2011. They had Slater with like these elastic bands that were, and compression that was going around your knee.
And I was like, oh, there's gotta be a way to make it so like mm-hmm. My fat ass can get up a little easier when I'm
Jamie: Yeah, like a quicker popup for, for like jersey barrels. Like when you're in a five mil, there you go.
Tyler: Yeah. Or even just when you get low, you need a little help to get back up. You know, when you're in like a tight tube and you gotta stand again.
Like if something just helped you, like
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: A little lift.
Jamie: Yeah. Interesting.
Tyler: I know this. All right. Now, you know, all, all of these ideas are copyrighted on this podcast listener.
Jamie: I got my hands full. That's a problem, right? Like a lot of ideas and only so many resources to. To follow those follow through on 'em.
Tyler: That is the story of my life. Yeah. Like they call me 1 million Tyler, where I have like a million ideas. One of them is like really good.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: [01:09:00] And I just wish I had money to make all the ideas.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: You know,
Jamie: a lot of my friends throw, throw ideas at me like, 'cause they know I've kinda like done stuff and I, and I'm like, always Mr.
No. I'm like, well, no,
Tyler: no, that won't work.
Jamie: Yeah,
Tyler: that won't work. Sorry.
Jamie: I'm like a venture capitalist. Like you say No. Like a hundred times you say yes. Once. Yeah.
Tyler: Now you, when you were editor of Trans World, like you watched this growth mm-hmm. In the sport.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: Were you like tripping out at like, going from like, you went from like 86 pages to like 400 pages Yeah.
In your tenure? Yeah. Like what, what was that like? I'm curious to watch a sport grow. Um, you know, like at the same time, like surfing was kind of having, well actually surfing was kind of on the downward at the time. Right. But then started to see a growth again. But I I, I'm always curious like. The people who are the taste makers, like an editor in chief mm-hmm.
Of a magazine. Like what is going through your head at that time when you see that growth?
Jamie: Well, it was growing because it was a money grab, right? Yeah. So a lot [01:10:00] it was, the magazine is growing because you're getting more advertising
dollars.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: There's more ads. So what happened wa, I mean, the sport was growing too.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: But it was growing at a steady rate and it was sort of limited a little bit by ski areas opening up. Yeah. So that was a little bit of a, a throttle on the whole thing. But it was the magazines, the industry was growing 'cause everyone and their mom saw a new growth opportunity and just threw money at it.
And we, and so, you know, we went from like a half a dozen snowboard brands in the mid eighties.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: To, I think there were over a hundred in our buyer'ss guide by like, you know, you know, by the early nineties. And it, it, so that's the growth was more, and like everyone's trying to get a piece of the pie.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: So we're just standing back going, all right, we're going for the ride here. You know, like, and obviously the staff blew up at the, you know, we had a lot more, we hired more people. The, the staff, the magazine got big and, and eventually, you know, we sold it so it sold the [01:11:00] Times Mirror who was like, literally around the corner.
That's
Tyler: crazy.
Jamie: I mean, and then it sold multiple times. Transworld I think ended up with the guys that own surfer.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Now it's gone.
Tyler: Yeah. Like all of them.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so it was a wild ride, but we were literally just along for the ride, you know, like,
Tyler: were you tripping? Like being like, I can't believe more people are giving us money to do this and I'm getting to pick where I want to go, snowboard and shit like that.
Jamie: Like I knew, I knew I was not oblivious to the fact that we were really fortunate, like we just had good timing. Everybody who snowboarded like picked it up in the eighties and nineties, like it was really fun. And you talk to any one of those guys and they'll, you know, any one of the people that was involved in it.
And it was like, you look back fondly like, oh, we were really lucky because that was a lot of fun. It was. It was. Everything was new.
Tyler: Yeah. Pro
Jamie: the sport was progressing so fast in terms of what you could do on the board and the equipment. It was just a fun time to be around it, you know? Like
Tyler: Yeah. And VHHS was like, and DVDs were [01:12:00] coming into it, which really,
Jamie: you know, oh, these videos would come out every, every fall at the trade shows.
It was just exciting. It was like so fun.
Tyler: And then at the trade shows, it was such a fun, interesting mix. Yeah. To watch the ski and snow. So
Jamie: you were there, I guess, as a retailer, right? You were there as a
Tyler: buyer. I was going around with my dad in like 94. Mm-hmm. Be going to SIA. Mm-hmm. And like, you know, yeah.
I was there and it was just so fun. Like, it was so funny. Like, yo know, you go to the ski section, be all buttoned up. Mm-hmm. And like, you know, they'd have like cappuccino machine and everything. Mm-hmm. And then you go down the hall to the snowboard section and it's like fucking wild. Yeah. The kids and everyone's just like dressed down and it's like,
Jamie: yeah.
Tyler: Total. It was such an interesting clash of the cultures and seeing. Those cultures kind of merge over time. Mm-hmm. We taught the
Jamie: ski industry a lot of lessons.
Tyler: You fucking did. Yeah. You know, it was, they copied so much from you guys. Yeah. I mean, the whole ski industry owes, you know, parabolic shapes to snowboarding, basically.
Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: It it's so wild.
Jamie: Yeah, it was, it was hilarious. We learned a lot from them. Let's be clear. Of course. Like of course we [01:13:00] learned how to build boards. Of course. Yeah. And from, I mean, ski construction ultimately is where, where we ended,
Tyler: I mean, mono boards were, were kind of a proto snowboard basically, you know?
Yeah,
Jamie: yeah. But just the construction, like we were, yeah, we were, I mean, before, I mean, Burton Sims, Barford, they were all horizontal lambs. They were like skateboards.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And it's all well and good, but like, until they went vert lamb cores and, and like molded in a ski press mm-hmm. That's when the performance really got good.
And that's all. So we learned from skiing first, but then we took it and ran with it.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And they were, yeah, they got, they got lazy and. Then they caught up.
Tyler: Well, it's, I mean, you left transworld and a lot of editors tend to go to the marketing side mm-hmm. Because they're storytellers and they end up like becoming marketing and eventually like CEOs and stuff.
Mm-hmm. You know, a lot of times. And you went to the product side Absolutely. Which is your, your total passion. Mm-hmm. You know? And you were, when you were editing, you were also consulting with, uh, Airwalk. Mm-hmm. Like, which I was a tech rep for Airwalk.
Jamie: Oh
Tyler: yeah. Working for Alex Michelman. Who?
Jamie: Alex.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: My man.
[01:14:00] Yep. He's a big so light fan.
Tyler: Yeah, man.
Jamie: He's got a, he's a big eef whale guy now.
Tyler: Yeah, I know. I see him every once in a while. In Rockaway In the, in the zooming by. Yes. Well, out in the, in the inlet there. Yeah. You know, he's always out there, you know, but it's, um, but Alex had me, took me, you know, as a tech rep mm-hmm.
And went to like the Princeton, uh, event at m sg Yeah. You know, at the Meadowlands At the Meadowlands and everything back in the day. Mm-hmm. And I remember like fitting all those boots, like you probably, you know, helped, uh, you know, design and shit.
Jamie: Yeah. I was doing like more exploratory stuff for them, which was great.
Like new product
Tyler: level, the intuition lining.
Jamie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tyler: Like, that was, that's like, it's so crazy because those intuition linings like. I feel like in the ski world particularly, didn't really take off until like the two thousands really. Right. Like really like seeing like Dalbello and a few others mm-hmm.
Use utilizing it much more. So.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. They definitely got their, their growth and their, they with snowboarding, snowboard boots caught on real quick with, you know, the reason I think is [01:15:00] 'cause snowboard is one of the boots. Light ski skiers didn't care.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And when you put those things in a, in a cill or in a regular snowboard boot, the boots become really lightweight.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And that was super attractive to snowboarders.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And um, 'cause you're walking around in those things all day, like, and Yeah. Eventually, but the fact that it was custom fit with heat, like the skier, the ski boots eventually locked onto that.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: It's pretty cool that those, I mean, intuition is still a very successful.
Independent brand today.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: That makes ski boot liners and snowboard boot liners and you know,
Tyler: and it's just, you pop 'em in the microwave and then it molds to your foot.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: And it's like perfect fit, condensed in everything, in all the right places. Yeah. And they feel amazing. Yeah. And then you get a nice footbed in there that's really important for high arch people like me and all that.
And,
Jamie: and that's basically was the idea with so light. Right? That's how we started. It was basically the same idea. Exactly. Same type of material. Uh, heat moldable, foam thermo, you know, thermoplastic foam that heats at 200 degrees and yeah, you customize [01:16:00] your, your surf boots.
Tyler: It's crazy. I gotta ask though, how's the insurance on that?
You ever get anyone being like, I got burned from this?
Jamie: We do have insurance. We've never had any knock on, knock on wood, uh, any suits, but yeah. It, but it's, yeah. It's fine. Never been.
Tyler: I'm always like, I'm always like, Ooh, that would, I, would I wonder how, what the doing my products now I'm like, oh, I wonder what the insurance would be for this.
Oh gosh. You know,
Jamie: it's funny, there was one guy, one shop owner who was like customized and I think he had a few beers. He was like a little drunk.
Tyler: Oh no.
Jamie: And the, the instructions are, you know, you heat 'em.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: But before you put your foot in you, you rinse 'em out with fresh water. Yeah. Cold, cold water. So it kind of takes the edge off of the surface.
Exactly. And you forgot to do, or And we also have socks that come with Yes,
Tyler: exactly.
Jamie: So that insulates you from the heat when you're molding. So anyway, he didn't do any of that and he, he burned his feet and, but he, you know, he, he didn't sue us. He just blamed himself for being an idiot. Yeah.
Tyler: I, I wanna ask that.
Like, you then went to [01:17:00] Burton. Mm-hmm. Like, uh, there, obviously you worked at, uh, blacks for a while Yeah. Which was another company, blacks. Yeah. You know, which was Misra basically. Right. It
Jamie: was the, the
Tyler: mystery guys wind surfing.
Jamie: Yep.
Tyler: Oh, my dad used to sell a ton of their stuff. Mm-hmm. You know, uh, but it's, it's interesting, like, you went to, like, I would imagine Burton would've been like the dream job for you.
Jamie: Yep.
Tyler: And, and it didn't work out as, as, as, as you'd probably hoped, I imagine.
Jamie: Yeah, no, it, it was a dream job and it was fantastic. I was only there for a year.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And I learned a ton. Yeah. Traveled around the world, learned about process, you know, about like getting a product from A to Z.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And it was great, but, but I think it did it, it's funny because that was what's ironic, right?
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: When I was there, I was basically brought in because there they, Jake felt like Air Walk was kicking their ass.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: It's funny 'cause I was like, just at Air Walk. Right. And he's like, you know, they're selling Air walk's, got too much market share. He was like I said, super competitive.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: So he was upset [01:18:00] and, you know, got rid of the old boot team and brought in me and like, and the minute I get there, they want me to fire everybody who worked under me.
Tyler: No.
Jamie: Like almost everybody. So he was like in a panic. Yeah. And I was brought in like almost like a turnaround.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And long story short is like, I didn't turn it around fast enough.
Tyler: Wow.
Jamie: You know, and like, and, but you know, they were, Jake was so used to just dominating and if he saw like anybody making headway on him, he went into beast mode
Tyler: D.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: How did you handle that?
Jamie: I mean, I, I, it was a bummer 'cause I'm like, I really like, I like it here. I didn't like being in Vermont, being so far from the beach. 'cause I like it. It definitely put a crimp in the surfing.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And I was like, but at least I wanted to be there for a few years and like really get the hang of it.
Yeah. Which, like, you're there not even a year. You like, you don't even figure out like totally how, you know, the interdynamics of a company and how to, how to like, get along, you know, figure out how things work. So I was just barely getting in my footing. So IWI [01:19:00] wished that I was there a couple years more, but I definitely knew I didn't wanna be there forever.
'cause I, you know, but, um, yeah, I mean, like, I, I'm done, I'm sitting there in Vermont and my, my mind starts going again. I'm like, what am I gonna do next? I came up with a wave pool idea.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: I started like throwing it by
Tyler: like, what were you think? Were you just like. Wave. Like, did, did it come in like a conversation?
Did it come to you like, while you were really high? Like were you
Jamie: like,
Tyler: like,
Jamie: you know, you thinking about, I mean, think about it. I'm in Vermont, right? Yeah. So I'm not surfing. Yeah. But I'm thinking about surfing and the waves in New England are flat, especially up in Maine, New Hampshire. Like it's flat for long periods of time.
So you're like, your mind drips to God. I wish, you know, there was a wave. Yeah. So you start thinking about wave pools.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And then you're like, eh, wait, you know, this was 19 98, 19 99. Like there's, there's um, typhoon Lagoon, the one in Japan that was actually really good
Tyler: Maki Dome.
Jamie: Yeah. That thing is
Tyler: sick.
And
Jamie: so I'm [01:20:00] like, and these were all not built to be surf pools. Yeah. They were just built to be water parks.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: That happened to have a way big enough to surf. I'm just like, man, what I gotta believe if you put your mind to it
Tyler: mm-hmm.
Jamie: You could. And you could not only make a good surfing wave, but you could make it a business that worked.
'cause I know, again, I'm the target customer.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: I'm willing to pay good money
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: For a good wave, you know? Totally. It's cheaper than going to, going to, you know, Nicaragua or whatever.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: So then I just, you know, I started like brainstorming, obsessing like pool. I started drawing pictures of pool designs, like on my, you know, on paper.
And, and I went to a trade, a water park or a amusement park trade show in Atlanta that, uh, where all the exhibitors, like the people that build wave pools and water parks. And I started talking. I showed them my stupid drawings and they're like, all right kid. You know, like, and I, you know, eventually, like I found these guys up in Albany that, that make wave pools that were like, yeah, we can make, we can make you.
I, I, I can't [01:21:00] speak to the shape of the pool.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: But we can make you a wave system that'll make you a head high barrel.
Tyler: Wow.
Jamie: You gotta figure out how, how to make the pool though.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And so again, like you're just piecing these things together. And I went to the, found these guys in New Zealand that were, that were academics that had mapped the ocean floor of some of the best surf waves.
And they, they thought that they knew how bottom contours worked and just put all these things together. And I made a business plan and then I started pitching it to like, friends and like savvy older people that like had, you know, done this before and they like started asking me questions and I was so naive about like
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: How I didn't know what I didn't know. Right. Yeah. Sometimes
Tyler: that's
Jamie: good. And one of the guys who's like a friend of my parents who's like a very successful entrepreneur, had like a healthcare startup, sold it for millions. He's like, he's like, Jamie, you ever consider like maybe you should go to business school?
Yeah. Because it was a nice way of saying, dude, you don't know shit.
Tyler: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jamie: Like, like you were an English major, [01:22:00] you worked in snowboarding industry. Like, you don't, you know, you never actually ran your own business, let alone, you know, raised money for a startup.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And, uh, so I took his advice.
Wow. And basically, you know, you know, a year and a half Columbia was cool 'cause they had a, um, for people who were older, 'cause I was, I was already like almost 30, I think I was like 29. You could go like 16 months without a summer break and get your degree. That's my
Tyler: stepmother
Jamie: did that
Tyler: too. Yeah, yeah,
Jamie: yeah.
So I, so I did that and my, and, and I, but I was like on a mission, like I was in business school going, I wanna make a wave pool. So every class I took and everything I did was like, how is this gonna help me make a wave pool or raise the money to make a wave pool? Yeah.
Tyler: What were people's reaction in school like to
Jamie: that they're super supportive.
I mean, it's like, it's, imagine going to business school. It's like full of e you know, people that are wanna be entrepreneurs. They want either that or they want to go to investment banking, whatever. But like, a lot of people are like, so they have, they have like. Um, business plan, like development courses.
They had, they [01:23:00] actually had a venture capital fund
Tyler: Wow.
Jamie: That you would, that students would com would compete to get funding and I won that, so I got like seed money. So yeah. People were totally supportive. Like I would pitch the idea and, and then my professors, my, my fellow students would help refine the idea.
And, um, so I, so I graduated like with some seed money and a much better business plan. Yeah. And an understanding of how the world actually works. Yeah. Like, um, and you know, it still took like two years to raise all the money and you get into the dirt, um, you know, in Orlando. And then, uh, but again, it was, it was a long time ago and we didn't have Wave Garden.
We didn't have endless surf. We didn't have American wave machines. These guys dialed it now. Like I was literally.
Tyler: You were in the dark. Yeah. There was nothing to go on. Yeah. You had maybe like Tom Lock field maybe.
Jamie: Yeah. But he wasn't even making wave pools back then. Just making flow
Tyler: riders.
Jamie: Yeah. Jinx.
Yeah. Yeah.
Tyler: Sorry.
Jamie: But I was talking to Tomm, you know, and like everybody was. It [01:24:00] was just the wild west. It still is, but it was like, it, I took a lot of chances,
Tyler: dude. It is crazy. Like, and
Jamie: it didn't work.
Tyler: I, well, well, one, like, yeah. I can't imagine what it must have been like constantly having to go around and pitch it mm-hmm.
For two years. Mm-hmm. And raise that funds.
Jamie: Mm-hmm.
Tyler: Because that is a, that's a lot of rejection.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: How,
Jamie: I mean, anybody who's raised money, it's the same story. Yeah. I mean, you, you probably give. 30 pitches for one. Yes. Right. 29 nos.
Tyler: Were you, was there any self-doubt at that time? Were you like, what am I doing?
Do you know the, like the re how do you, how did you overcome the rejections?
Jamie: So it was like every time you got a rejection, you'd be like, why did they reject it?
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And you'd take a good hard look at like, yeah. You know what, this part of the business plan needs to be fixed.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: So it was like, I responded by using it to improve what I was trying to sell, what I was trying to pitch.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And then, but once you get [01:25:00] a couple yeses, it's snowballs.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Because it's psychology. It's like fear and greed. People say, oh, that, that guy invested. He's a smart guy. Okay. He must, he must have done the due diligence. And so once I got like the first million. The rest came in pretty rapidly. Wow. But the hardest thing is like the first million, like, 'cause 'cause you're, you're pitching totally, totally fantasy.
Tyler: Yeah. No, no. And once you get a couple names that are attached to it, I imagine it's then like,
Jamie: and their network, the people that get attached to it. Totally. They call up their buddies, they're like, Hey, I'm doing this. Yeah. It's pretty cool. You, you wanna, you want to go in? And we ended up raising money from like 35 people, which was herding cats.
Tyler: That's crazy.
Jamie: And it took, like, it took a couple, took two years to do it.
Tyler: That must have been, how'd you handle, did you have anxiety at, at all around that?
Jamie: Hell yes.
Tyler: What was that? How did you manage that?
Jamie: I don't know. You just, how do you, how do you manage it? Right. You just step by step, day by day. The, the worst anxiety was when it was falling apart.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: When I watched it crumbling [01:26:00] around me and I'm like, oh my God, the last five years. And like, it's. It's getting taken away from me. Like it sucks. And I had a lot of friends who put money in like Yeah. Good friends who fortunately are still good friends. Yeah. You know, but like that, that was way worse.
That talking about anxiety is watching it crumble around you that
Tyler: I can't even imagine. Yeah. Like, like first let's, let's talk like, uh, technology here.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: Because you were chasing a bottom contour, like a changing bottom contour Yeah. For this wave pool, right? Yeah. Like you were trying to make a bottom contour that could change.
Yep. So that the wave, you know, will break in. However
Jamie: you can make left, you can make Right. You can make it hollow. So. Yes.
Tyler: Which, which is fascinating because it's like you almost, you had the technology otherwise. Yeah. Like right now, today, like. You know, a lot of the technology is kind of the same as what existed almost, basically.
Yeah. And you almost didn't need the bottom contour a hundred
Jamie: percent. So that, so in hindsight,
Tyler: [01:27:00] yeah.
Jamie: That was the single, the mistake. We, we, that's what caused the pool to keep breaking while we were testing it and developing it, is we had a, a floor that was adjustable by a series of, of winches and pneumatic root controls
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: That were actually hooked up to a computer. And so you would, you would change the elevation of the floor in all these different points, but it was, it was this really delicate lattice work of steel and it was, it was a disaster basically. And it kept breaking. Yeah. And so in hindsight Yeah, which is 2020.
2020, I should have just had a concrete floor with a very basic slope in it.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: And gotten all the variability with the wave system itself. Yeah. And that's what everyone's doing now.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Um,
Tyler: but there was no knowledge of that. Right. Like, we all thought,
Jamie: like, I mean I, we knew that, I mean, because when I was doing the testing Yeah.
We, we did have a lot of variability with each case on, and we could change the, the, the speed and the volume of water and how quickly it went in and out. We had those controls. Not as good as they have now. Yeah. It's way better now.
Tyler: [01:28:00] Yeah.
Jamie: But we were also, we also have this floor that was like, so we were, we were changing up, we were making lefts and rights and we were changing how we were firing the cassons, even independent of the floor.
And I think at the end, right before the whole thing kind of went belly up, the plan was, Hey, let's get this crazy floor outta here.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And just put a concrete floor in and, and we can make a good wave just by with the case ons. But I think we had lost confidence, like of the board and of everyone. And it, and it, I just kinda, it just kind of went out with a whimper, you know.
Tyler: What, what was the relationship like with the, the company from New Zealand?
Jamie: Bad.
Tyler: Yeah. Do you feel like they sold you on something that Yeah. That, yeah.
Jamie: Yeah. I mean, there were academics. They had no experience in the commercial world. And, but again, you know, fool me, like I was also, I wanted it to work. Yeah.
So I, so the, the, the signs I was, I don't wanna say I was blind to, but I ignored them because I was just giving the, the benefit of the doubt.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: [01:29:00] And so that's the hardest thing is like, you want this so bad, it obstructs clear thinking.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: And so I wasn't, but I mean, I knew pretty quickly, like when I saw that floor go in, I'm like, oh shit, this is gonna be a disaster.
Tyler: Shit.
Jamie: It was like, some dude came over from New Zealand
Tyler: and he's like, Hey bro, how's
Jamie: it going bro? Yeah. Like, and he just starts cobbling it together with like pool noodles and shit on the side of the pool. I was like, padding. And I'm like, what? So, so I, so at that point when we're already in deep, I realized like, oh shit.
We're like, this is gonna go bad.
Tyler: Fuck.
Jamie: But like, ha. And I tried.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Just like I said, I tried to like turn it around. So I did identify the problem and I did come to my senses, but it was too little, too late.
Tyler: So I remember, uh, at the time you were also talking about doing a pool up at, uh, at, uh, Roosevelt Island.
Jamie: Randall's Island.
Tyler: Randall's Design. Yeah. Uh, because you, we actually had an email correspondence.
Jamie: Oh my God.
Tyler: Yeah. Yeah. Like I, for some reason, [01:30:00] someone put us in contact and I was like on an email. 'cause you were looking at potentially doing it there. Yeah. Randall's Island as well. Yeah.
Jamie: Which,
Tyler: fuck
Jamie: my God, how great would that be?
So, so that came about because Aquatic Development Group, the guys that build a wave system for me, they won a bid from the city of New York Wow. To build an indoor waterpark on Randall's Island. Geez. And, and they knew me and they're like, Hey, wouldn't it be great as part of the master plan as if we have indoor surfing in this thing?
Because they believed in what I was doing. Yeah. They're like, you know, you're, you're early, but you got a good idea, Jamie. You know, like you're, and, and, uh, so they're like, yeah, we'll put it into the, the design. And so they're like, you just go out there and, you know, try to drum up support, drum up like a list for members so that when we Yeah.
But they were, so they had to raise a couple hundred million with like back bonds backed by the city of New York. And I think that this all, then we had a recession. Was it 2001?
Tyler: Yeah. Uh, no, I think it was like 2008 with the big recession, right?
Jamie: No, it was before that. It was before that. It was [01:31:00] 2001, the recession
Tyler: 11 and all that.
Jamie: Yeah. It was the recession. Right. So nine 11 happened and so that whole thing never came to be,
Tyler: yeah.
Jamie: Um, but it would've been cool to piggyback on that. Gosh. I mean, could you imagine,
Tyler: can, can you imagine like if we had a wave pool?
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: There now, like. Oh my God. The line lineups would be so crowded.
Jamie: I, I, I knew that I had a good idea.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Because, so at that time I was doing the surveys of people in Orlando, in, in Florida. 'cause that was where our park was. And then I was doing the same thing in New York Metro. And then the response I got, and this was old, you know, old in times, you know? Yeah. Like the response I got was insane. Yeah.
I'm like, there are thousands and thousands of surfers here that want this, that will pay.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And so I knew then like, this is a good idea.
Tyler: And you had the Lopez brothers on? Yeah. They were gonna be like the resident pros and stuff. Like
Jamie: everybody, John, everybody got it. Like surfers got it.
Tyler: Yeah. I mean, business people got it even.
Jamie: Yeah. I mean, we just [01:32:00] blew it with that floor. Like honestly, the world would be different right now. Like we would've had that surf park in Orlando going for like, what, 20 years now?
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And it would've been a good wave. And who knows what would've come, like the whole surf park, like world would've started a lot earlier and maybe gone a little bit differently.
Tyler: How, when things started to fall apart, like, I, I'm just trying to imagine like, what, how were you dealing with that? How were you managing that?
Jamie: I mean, like I said, honestly, it, it was tough. I think that you just, what can you do, right? You talk to anybody about like a setback and you can either let it destroy you or you can just let it push you forward.
Right.
Tyler: Did you sulk at all? Did you like, yeah. Not sulk, but like, did you, did you, were you depressed? Like, I'm just curious like, 'cause I'm, I'm, I'm always curious with people, like having these big setbacks. Yeah. But then moving forward and finding a new path,
Jamie: it's, it's both, right? It's never [01:33:00] one thing. No.
Like you, you, yeah. You're like bummed into the same, but, and I can tell you like, the thing that gets me out of it is like, okay, what's next?
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Right. Like, what's next? I have to, I have to do something. Right. And I think also. You know, surfing.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Just like, ha you know, we're lucky, like we have this thing
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: This activity that we can do that like, makes you feel better or something. You're always looking forward, right? Yeah. There's always a swell coming, so it is something that keeps you looking forward.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And so, bla mixing that with the, the, you know, the sadness or the, you know, the disappointment of a failure, you can come out of it, you're always, you, you're, you're, you know, it's, it's three steps forward, two steps back, whatever.
Tyler: What did you learn personally from that? Like from yourself about yourself?
Jamie: I don't know, it's about myself, but I learned lessons about, like I said, like, you, you, um, you gotta have your eyes wide open. Like you cannot let the, the fantasy or the what [01:34:00] you want
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Get in the way of the reality. Yeah. Like you have to like, so with solight two, like if I'm innovating something new
Tyler: mm-hmm.
Jamie: Now my thought process is, oh, this, it's not, it's not, oh, this is gonna be so great. It's gonna be awesome. It's gonna be okay. What, what's gonna go wrong?
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: What's gonna go wrong?
Tyler: Right.
Jamie: And so now my, my attitude with developing products is again, it's like three steps forward, two steps back. Like, I need to eliminate all unnecessary risks.
The choice of material, the choice of construction. Mm-hmm. Like, like everything I'm doing has to, like, what's gonna go wrong? What's gonna go wrong? And, and you know what's even amazing now that I've been running Solight now, like, you know, for
Tyler: almost 10 years.
Jamie: Yeah. Like, I have experience, like I see what goes wrong.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And I see like developing a product and giving it to a bunch of guys to test is a lot different from a mass market, like having it out with thousands of people on their feet.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And so that, you know, that [01:35:00] lesson of like being wide-eyed and like being, being sober about. The realities the situation is, is probably the biggest takeaway.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And um, and then also like the lesson we talked about at the beginning about like, it's not about getting rich or becoming successful. No. It's about like, are you enjoying what you're doing every day? Like, do you feel like you're a, is it is enjoyable and fun? B are you pushing something forward?
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: Are you progressing just like you and me on a surfboard? Like am I, I'm always, you know, you are you moving the, pushing the rock up the hill. Yeah. You know, so yeah, you, those are the lessons and those are kind of the, the guidelines of, um, you know, how I stay motivated
Tyler: with Solight. Like, did you want it to be direct to consumer or wholesale first?
Like what was your focus there?
Jamie: It was direct to consumer first, and we launched a website [01:36:00] selling direct to consumer, and then pretty quickly. A couple shops started reaching out.
Tyler: Yeah,
Jamie: I think the FI wonder what the first shop was, reached out. I think it might have been, um, seaside Surf in Oregon.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Jamie: Yep.
Tyler: Interesting.
Jamie: Yep. And then, um, there was one in Rhode Island.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: That's not open anymore. And then one in South Jersey and then, uh, down in North Carolina, um, in Wrightsville. What is it not Marsh is the other one.
Tyler: Um,
Jamie: Lem Spencer was the guy who reached out to me.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: And like slowly, like we, and then so I, I talked to Tyler, I'm like, 'cause he knows how to run wholesale.
Yeah. I'm like, should we do this? And I'm like, yeah, well, they're asking. We might as well. So we, you know, we started selling the shops. Um,
Tyler: did you follow like. Do you have reps? Do you have
Jamie: Yeah,
Tyler: like, yeah,
Jamie: so we, you know, we started, we got a Salesforce. We have a Salesforce, [01:37:00] and then I started, um, I got a rep in Canada who reached out, who wanted to sell Canada.
And so we, we, we, we ship up there to shops up there and we do direct consumer up there. It's
Tyler: expensive to ship
Jamie: up. It's a huge pain. Yeah. And it's not getting any easier with all the tariff wars. Yeah. I do wanna get big enough where I can just bring containers directly into Canada and start ship, you know, fulfilling from there.
Um, we have distributors in Japan, we have distributors and we had Europe and now it's split with, with Brexit. So now I have UK and eu. Um, I'm actually starting to take, we have Australia. I'm actually in the process of like retaking ownership of the other countries.
Tyler: Wow.
Jamie: So like, like I own the UK business now.
Tyler: Really?
Jamie: And I, but I work with my former distributor who's now a three pl. They just do all the Oh, that's great customers. It is great. It's great for both sides.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: So, and I'm gonna do that probably in, in Europe with my guys in Portugal. They're the fire wire guys, um, surf cloud, and then they handle all of eu
Tyler: Wow.
Jamie: Um, Japan, Australia. Like, I'm working with a [01:38:00] guy there who was a distributor, but now I think he's just going to be a three pl. And so, but now I pay for all the, I own all the inventory and I gotta pay for all the marketing.
Tyler: Oh my gosh.
Jamie: Um, yeah. So there's costs, but I have the margin to do it where they didn't have the margin to do it.
So it makes, it makes sense, but it's more work for me.
Tyler: Well, it's, it's funny, like as you, you were thinking direct to consumer, I imagine that was in your. Calculation margin wise, right? Mm-hmm. Like wholesale eats into your margin and like you look at companies like Need Essential and Kolby mm-hmm. That only do direct to consumer.
Yeah. And they can, uh, they can offer a more affordable product. Yeah. Because they cut out that whole, that whole side of it. And I imagine that must have been quite a, a change or having to adjust for that a little bit.
Jamie: Yeah. Well, and it's that, and you know, shops in general don't like when you do direct to consumer.
Right. Oh, they hate it 'cause you're competing directly with them. Of course. And, and, um, I get it, you know, it's, it's tough and I [01:39:00] think, you know, but, but listen, the shops that are still around have figured. Why they exist.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And why they're successful, right? Like, because of service.
Tyler: Totally.
Jamie: And because they have, they have loyal clientele.
Mm-hmm. And because they probably own the buildings that they're in, their overhead is lower. That
Tyler: too,
Jamie: I mean, you know, you know retail, right? Dad, this
Tyler: building, you know,
Jamie: it's
Tyler: like really important.
Jamie: So there's a whole, you know, the shops that are around now have sort of reached a, you know, I would say a, a deante with.
Brands that also sell direct to consumer. And, and, you know, listen, those shops are small business like me, like it's, it's gnarly. It's tough. Like we're all grinding to some of the, some of these shops do are bigger companies than me.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: You know, like, I get upset when, you know, WRV, they're, they're way bigger than me.
Right? Yeah. Like, like they pay late. I'm like, Hey man, I'm a small business. I'm smaller than you
Tyler: gonna take away your net 30 terms, buddy.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, like, like we're all trying to, so it's hard. Like, I don't, you know, [01:40:00] it's hard to try to manage their business, let alone mine, right? Yeah. So, so that's the way I look at it.
Like, I, I, I do my thing. I run my, my company the best way I can and, um, try to meet, meet the retailers where they're comfortable. And we have a great, you know, we've got over 200 dealers in the states.
Tyler: What's the, uh, the marketing for you? Is it mostly just ads online? Do you
Jamie: It's it's all digital. It's, it's,
Tyler: it's all social media ads
Jamie: and Yeah, it's, it's Google, it's meta.
Um, it's, you know, having great athletes, guys like Rob Kelly.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: You know, and, and that what's cool about being here in Jersey and New York is that we use this stuff year round.
Tyler: Totally.
Jamie: And, and guys, you know, there aren't a lot of visible pro surfers who wear boots. Yeah. Period.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Like name one,
Tyler: it's, dude, it's like, it's very rare.
Yeah. Like, it's always, um, whenever I see Slater or someone wearing gloves and boots, it's kind of like, wait, what?
Jamie: Yeah. It's super rare. Totally. And by the way, that was our breakout for Solight.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: So, remember [01:41:00]
Tyler: that
Jamie: Slater came to New Jersey and Slate and I, I was surfing right up the street in Spring Lake that day because that was down in like South Spring Lake.
And I get, and I get home 'cause it was big, you know? And, and, and, and I was just happy to get a couple waves 'cause it was big. Yeah. And I get home and I got a text from a photographer, I forget who it was my, it might have been like Robert Sio or someone.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: And he's like. Dude, Slater's out. He's wearing your boots.
Tyler: No,
Jamie: I'm like, and Oh, it was April. No, it was, it was Halloween. Yeah. It was like, it was in October. And I'm like, you fucking, you shitting me. And he sent me like a screenshot from the back of his camera dude of Slater on one of those waves with the red boots. This was before Soul Light existed as a Wow, as a brand.
It was like, great. When we were about to launch,
Tyler: that's like when you, you partnered with Body Glove, right?
Jamie: Yeah. That's how we launched was with Body Glove. But this was even before that. Like I had, I made a bunch of samples that I was getting on people to test and so, so I knew Sam Hammer.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: And he got a cover [01:42:00] shot and ESM with our boots before we were a company.
Tyler: Wow.
Jamie: And they were the gray ones, so you couldn't really tell. And then I, and I, every time I would go to China to make prototypes, I'd like make 'em different colors. Yeah. So I knew like, so I had the green ones and the red ones and they were like really bright and it was Slater with the red ones, dude. And I'm like, oh my God.
I'm like, this is it. Like I think we got something here.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: And um,
Tyler: did you ever get feedback from him?
Jamie: Yeah, not directly. I got it indirectly through Sam. Like that night they were all out to dinner or whatever and 'cause I was like texting Sam, I'm like, oh my God, look at this. Like,
Tyler: dude, that must have
Jamie: been
Tyler: fucking
Jamie: crazy.
Yeah, it was crazy. 'cause all he, 'cause people, the word got out that he was there surfing and everyone just started showing up.
Tyler: Yeah. Just to watch.
Jamie: Yeah. To watch. It was like a huge crowd. And um, yeah, that was just, that was surreal. It was really surreal. And then, and then I was like, okay, I think we got something here
Tyler: that was also
Jamie: Yeah,
Tyler: he had a, like a broken foot or something around that time.
Yeah. Maybe he had an injury.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: And so your boots probably helped
Jamie: with that. I think he mentioned he did. He said that he's like, oh, [01:43:00] these are gonna be good. 'cause they're like supporting. They're like providing support around my, around my foot. Yeah. Yeah. He had like a problem with his, with his toes
Tyler: and his feet.
That's why he had like Yeah. He was off tour. Yeah. Like he couldn't do the full tour because of that.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: You know?
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: Like that's,
Jamie: so sometimes there's, you just get lucky.
Tyler: Yeah,
Jamie: man. Serious. There's a lot of hard workers. You get lucky sometimes. So that then it helped. Yeah, it definitely helps.
Tyler: So, so now where do you see Solight growing?
Like, where do you want to take it in
Jamie: terms, I
Tyler: just
Jamie: want it to sustain itself. I wanna, obviously, I don't want it to lose money. I wanna make a decent living. I wanna, we have a couple small investors. I want to make it a good investment for them.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: I have no like grand. Hopes to sell it for tens of millions of dollars.
I just want it to grow, be profitable, make good products, and, and, and, you know, lead the space. You know, we're slowly, you know, I'm, I'm working on so Lite 3.0 right now, like 2.0 is what we're currently at. Yeah. So I'm working hard on totally new stuff, [01:44:00] innovating next level stuff. We have gloves now. I'm working hard on making the gloves even better.
We just, we introduced a, a cool rash guard this year, which is neoprene on the front. Perforating
Tyler: breath. Yeah, I
Jamie: love
Tyler: that.
Jamie: Yeah. 'cause like, I dunno about you, but like, especially coming from here, when you go to the tropics, you're like, your chest, your ribs just get abused,
Tyler: dude. I mean, are you I get nabby ribs.
Yeah. You know, I get like calluses at the end of the summer on
Jamie: them. Yeah. So we, so yeah, we, we made a, a one and a half mil perforated neoprene chest panel. That's breathable. But the rest is, yeah. So you don't overheat. But it totally, I was just in Costa Rica for eight days. I wore it twice a day, every day.
And like my, nothing, no soreness. That's nothing. I'm like, oh, this works. It's hooded and we're coming out with another one without a hood. Now
these
Tyler: hat just hats need something for ball rash, you know?
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: A nut hugger.
Jamie: Well, there is that company. What's that company that makes the board shorts that has the neoprene on the inside?
Tyler: I know. I got a pair Drift.
Jamie: Drift
Tyler: drift.
Jamie: Good for them. You know?
Tyler: Love it. They're, they're good.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: You know, they're a little heavy, you know, I'm gonna say like, I like 'em.
Jamie: Right.
Tyler: [01:45:00] But I think I get it. Be approved. Just saying. Yeah. Throwing it out there for you.
Jamie: Okay.
Tyler: You know, it's, it's, it's not too much balls.
It's the, the, also the size.
Jamie: Well, they use Yamamoto rubber in there, which is not light. It's, it's heavy. But anyway, we're doing hats. Uh, the
Tyler: hat is, the
Jamie: convertible hats are, are, people are loving that
Tyler: for me, it's, I can, I can't surf without a hat anymore. Mm-hmm. You know, I have to because it's just, you know, being follicly challenged.
Yep, yep. Uh, it's, and it's beautiful design. Like it switches forward to back. Yeah. Which honestly, I think that hat. Is probably gonna be your most mainstream product, I really think. All
Jamie: right.
Tyler: I think there are people who don't surf who would Right. Absolutely. Buy into that.
Jamie: Yeah. And you could, it's, it's doing well.
Like we're selling thousands of them, and, and I've already, you know, I've got new ones coming out. Like we're doing one with, with a bump cap in it, like a helmet.
Tyler: Nice.
Oh,
Tyler: that's great.
Jamie: Yeah. Not a full on helmet. Yeah. But like, you know, bump caps where it's like a, like a little plastic shell, no protection.
So yeah, we're evolving that concept. But again, every, our whole MO is so light is like, [01:46:00] I'm not making a me too product. Yeah. If it, I'm not gonna just make like a changing robe.
Tyler: No.
Jamie: Or a wetsuit or a pair of board shorts. Everything we do has to bring something new to the table.
Tyler: Totally.
Jamie: Not just for the sake of newness, but because it's gonna improve on something that needs.
Exactly. So it's gonna make it your experience better. So we're slow to release new things because we're like. Is this gonna change the game? Is this gonna bring something new? Is this gonna push it forward? And if it doesn't pass that test, then we don't do it.
Tyler: All right. Awful idea. I'm gonna throw it at you.
All right. This is the world's worst idea.
Jamie: A Mr. No, so go
Tyler: ahead. I know, I know. Magnetic booties and traction pad.
Jamie: I mean, I know it's been talked about, right? Yeah.
Tyler: I don't know actually. I've never, I've never seen it. Never heard of it. But I was, it literally just came to me right now. Yeah. I'm like, that would be kind of cool.
Jamie: It'd be heavy. Magnets are heavy.
Tyler: Yeah, they are. They can be like lots of little bits though. Yeah. You don't have to have a little, just enough to like, give you a little, little,
Jamie: like, I know in the, in the bike world, I, I mountain bike for fun, so [01:47:00] I kind of stay up on, on that. And like they have magnetic shoes and pedals.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Similar idea. So the tech exists.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: But I don't know, maybe,
Tyler: you know, or um, flesh colored
Jamie: reef boots.
Tyler: Reef boots.
Jamie: We're on it.
Tyler: Yeah. Flesh colored
Jamie: because Right. But, but let's, you know, we gotta be careful now. 'cause what is flesh color
Tyler: not true?
Jamie: This is, this is the two thousands. You
Tyler: have the tone, you
Jamie: know, they gotta come the tone.
I'm gonna offend someone unless I come out with 50 different flesh colors. Good,
Tyler: good thing surfers are mostly tan. You know, so you can kind of
Jamie: shade, flare,
Tyler: shade, the light
Jamie: brown.
Yeah. So, but people, but, but I would say surfers are also totally image conscious, so that's why the, they don't want people to, they don't wanna admit they're wearing reef boots. So if they're, if they're flesh colored, they're, you know, they're from a distance, you don't think you're wearing 'em.
Tyler: What you have to do is then have Chad, Chad Smith and David Scales Uhhuh.
When they do curr and then they have to just say, oh, these are Kern. Yeah. You know, for people
Jamie: flash colored reef boots.
Tyler: All right. I'm gonna finish up here. I got, [01:48:00] um, I've been doing lately, these surfers questionnaires.
Jamie: All right.
Tyler: So I have these questions that I want to ask you. This is my, you know, inside the actor studio questions.
Jamie: Mm-hmm.
Tyler: Alright. What is your favorite surf term?
Jamie: Favorite surf term? Uncrowded.
Tyler: Ooh, I like that. Alright. What is your least favorite surf term?
Jamie: Crowded
Tyler: too. Perfect. That's easy too. Perfect. If you could go back in time and grab any surfboard from your history, what board would that be and why?
Jamie: Okay. Now, fortunately I listened to your last couple podcasts, right?
So I gave this one some thought.
Tyler: Excellent.
Jamie: And it's my first board. Mm-hmm. When I was 13, I had some money from my bar mitzvah and I got a five 10 Shred sticks. Nice. Which was, this was not, I was 13, so it was 1983 or 82 and it was right when thrusters came out. So it was a thruster, it was a five 10 swallow tail thruster.
So [01:49:00] shred sticks. Beautiful. Full circle story here. Michael Shemy.
Tyler: Yes. Legendary
Jamie: legend. So he was Tyler's best buddy, still is Tyler's best buddy. It was a five 10, it was yellow. The bottom I, it was all yellow. Um, and it was a thruster and I sold it, you know, like a year or two later. But I think that that board now would be like a board.
I would love to surf, but what's cool is that I now know Michael, I met him through Tyler. That's
Tyler: no way.
Jamie: And like I told him the whole story, you know, you the, and the second board I got was also a shred six. It was a quad, it was like a six. Oh. So what dude, I was like,
Tyler: were you like, do you have the templates still?
Jamie: I, I, I, I, I did. You know, I went to his house, he lives in, I think in West Hampton or mm-hmm. Qua. And, and I, you know, I've gotten to spend some time with him. I mean, I'm not like buddies with him, but Tyler is, and, and I, I was just like, I was so excited to like, tell him the story of like, it was my first board and he kind of said, yeah, I think I remember making that [01:50:00] one.
You know, like, I dunno if he was just, you know, joking with me, but like. Nicest guy in the world. And like, I didn't, I didn't, I mean, I knew he made boards and I, I knew of him, but he is, he is a legend out there. Like there was like a little, kinda like West Hampton, like reunion they had there. Yes. That's, and Tyler flew in for it and I went with him, you know, like
Tyler: Steve Bedford Brown
Jamie: helped,
Tyler: uh, helped, uh, do
Jamie: that movie.
And they had a video. They had a movie and they, but they were showing clips of like shemi from back in the day and like, and they were, he was ripping and like, but they were like, they were, I don't know where were they flies? No, they were all over the, were over, but they were all the travels. Like these, these guys were in their, in the seventies, like they were on it.
I mean, talk about pioneers. Yeah.
Tyler: Oh my gosh.
Jamie: So yeah, that's the board that, that five 11. I love that. The five love 10 shred sticks. Yeah. It thruster. Yep.
Tyler: And finally, if Heaven exists, what sort of wave would you like to surf for eternity?
Jamie: Um.
Tyler: You can't say a wave pool with different changing bottoms.
Jamie: Right?
Right. I mean, the idea of [01:51:00] eternity scares the shit outta me.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: I think that would be horrible actually. I don't think humans are, are conditioned to Let's get deep. I don't think humans are conditioned to No. To deal with the idea of eternity.
Tyler: No, our brains
Jamie: can't
Tyler: handle it. Um,
Jamie: you know, but like a wave that I will, that I like now, like, you know, as I surf, I got to surf the wave pool in, um, uh, in Brazil.
The American wave machines won the, um, the club. Yeah. Um,
Tyler: the Bo The
Jamie: Bo Vista. Vista. Vista, yeah. So that wave was about head high and you could get five solid turns on it. And I, I think that's the perfect wave, not necessarily that wave pool. Yeah. But like, it doesn't have, like the Slater one from what I, I mean it looks awesome, but from what I've heard, it's just like really long and you just get tired.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Like, and looks
Tyler: hard.
Jamie: It looks hard. Yeah. Like to me, a perfect wave at, in my ripe old age, or assuming that I'm 56 in eternity, like, and I'm not 26.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Like, yeah. It's like, it's like a head high plus where it's got [01:52:00] barrel sections. It's got, it's got a nice lip you can hit and it's got a pocket, it's got like enough juice.
You know, like, you know those days that happen in Jersey and Long Island, like a couple times a year where it's still warm and it's like kind of thin lipped, but super like light offshore winds and like enough juice and just perfectly clean. Mm-hmm. Like, not those, not a drop outta place days. Like Yeah.
That's, that's the one. Yeah. Like the ones that keep you coming back.
Tyler: I love that
Jamie: when you're like, oh yeah, this is why I love, this is why I love this.
Tyler: What's it like to surf these wave pools now, after your experience, by the way, I just gotta
Jamie: ask. Yeah. A little bitter, a little bittersweet.
Tyler: I was gonna ask,
Jamie: I mean, I, I don't want to, I'm not definitely outta the game.
Like I, I've, I've, I've been like, workshop in a, you know, a plan to build one in Jersey, you know, for sure. Really getting back to the roots, but, but I know too, what, it's a process.
Tyler: Oh. After the show, I'm gonna pitch you my idea for a wave pool.
Jamie: Oh, well, I don't, you know, pitch it to someone with 40 million
Tyler: bucks.
Right. [01:53:00] I like the, the, your Wave guys. Have you seen that?
Jamie: I've heard
Tyler: of it. It's kind of like a stationary wave. Mm-hmm. But it, you could ride a regular board on it and the footprint is tiny. Oh, right. And it's like affordable to build.
Jamie: Yeah. I don't know. I feel like you gotta move, you gotta go from A to B.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: I mean, listen, the ones I've surfed a good amount of pools. I haven't surfed a Slater one, but I've surfed a couple wave gardens and I've surfed the American Wave machine, the one in Boa Vista, and
Tyler: yeah,
Jamie: that one I haven't, that one is so good.
Tyler: Dude, it's exhausting surfing those pools too,
Jamie: like Yeah.
But that's set up so well because you do, you, you get like this a hundred yard ride where you, you, it's like doing a hundred yard dash. Yeah. And you get all these turns in and you're tired, but then you kick out and you're next to the wall and there's a current going back to the lineup. Oh, that's
Tyler: awesome.
Jamie: So you're just kind of lightly paddling and you're covering ground, like paddling next to a jetty and a current, and it works. It just works.
Tyler: I, I did the wave garden in, uh, Brighton. In the uk.
Jamie: Bristol.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah. I surfed that one. I'm at
Tyler: Brighton, Bristol.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: And, um. It was,
Jamie: I was exhausted 'cause I did it in [01:54:00] January.
Yeah. In a rental five
Tyler: mill. Yes. Like had my six mill and, and I was, it was
Jamie: tough, exhausted. It was, I felt like, man, I'm a c By the end I was like missing waves 'cause I was so tired. Yeah. By,
Tyler: by wave 10. And you get like 12 in a set by wave 10. I was like, can this be over?
Jamie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was tough.
Tyler: Like, I'm tired.
Jamie: I surfed the one in Switzerland too. Oh, wow. In, in a, in just a rash guard. And it was better in like, you know, board shorts.
Tyler: I tell you though, that one in Bristol has the best vibes. Mm-hmm. Like they have the little sauna there. Yeah. And it's like chill and it, it's got APRA ski vibes, you know.
Jamie: Yeah, yeah. No.
Which I
Tyler: totally enjoyed.
Jamie: I I, I mean it's a brave new world. Like, we're lucky our age, we look what we've seen, it's crazy. Our generation like
Tyler: fucking wild.
Jamie: What we, what we've gone through in terms of the progression of the sport. Like, we're gonna be retire. Like, you wanna buy like a, um, a $3 million house in Cabo or in, uh, Austin with, you know, with a wave pool next to it.
God is that, is that our, um, our destiny. Oof. We're gonna go down like
Tyler: retirement, retirement [01:55:00] center, where it's like, you know, you get to surf Santa in Ry for the rest of your life. Yeah. Basically a wave.
Jamie: Yeah.
Tyler: In Utah. I
Jamie: mean, that's what, that's the reality now.
Tyler: Yeah.
Jamie: There's, in Brazil, there's like, there's like six community these developments already.
Tyler: It's wild.
Jamie: Yeah. Like, yeah. What we've seen, like from, we were, we were born I guess in basically with single fins and now it's. Living next to wave pools with whatever board you want and it's all part of our surfing life. Luck for us
Tyler: if, if the world doesn't fall apart, we're good.
Jamie: Yeah. Lucky us. Well, hopefully technology will save us.
Tyler: I know.
Jamie: Jamie. Data centers in space, baby
Tyler: Jamie, I am. This is such an honor. I really appreciate you coming on. Thank you so much. I've had such a blast.
Jamie: Likewise. Really appreciate it.
Tyler: Got to give a quick shout out to Joe, our engineer here who's had to listen to us nerd out for the last two hours. Thank you so much Joe.
And you gotta thank Newsstand Studio here at Rockefeller Center. Uh, always stoked to be recording here and listeners don't forget to hit like, and subscribe and follow at swell season surf radio on Instagram. [01:56:00] And uh, go follow. Where can people follow you by the way? Uh, on, well,
Jamie: Instagram, it's solight boots, one word and solight boots.com.
Tyler: So go buy some rad solight gear, some boots, gloves, hats, new rash guard for summer, uh, support, uh, small business, which is awesome. And uh, we'll check you all down the line soon. [01:57:00]