Somma Surfboards with Shea Somma

Somma Surfboards

[00:00:00] Tyler: The Swell Season Podcast is recorded by the new stand studio Ed Rockfeller Center in the heart of Manhattan, and is distributed by the Swell Season Surf Radio Network.[00:01:00]

[00:01:03] Hello and welcome to the Swell Season Surf Podcast. I'm your host, Tyler Brewer. Listeners, have you ever hand shaped the surfboard? Have you ever had the desire to try and mow foam with a planter and ride something you made or make a board that you might have seen but don't have access to? Sha Summa is a shaper out of Central coast of California who started hand shaping boards in 2008 out of the curiosity to try new designs and shapes that weren't as available to him at the time.

[00:01:39] He began in his backyard shed with the desire to create and sample many niche board designs from the obscure corners of surfing. He's been chasing the unique sensations one feels from riding these alternative designs ever since. Shea is here in New York doing a short residency at the King's [00:02:00] Glassing facility in Brooklyn, and he is our guest on this episode of the Swell Season Surf podcast.

[00:02:08] Welcome to the show, Shay. How's it going? Thanks. It's, uh, really good to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Stoked. Um, I was thinking the opening song might be some 11, some are 11, but with the summer, has anyone ever done that really bad joke to you? No, I haven't heard that one yet. That's funny. Um, super happy that you're here.

[00:02:31] Uh, like it's really cool what you're doing, uh, coming out doing a little residence here. Uh, but before we start, I, I was doing research on, you started digging through all the dirt and I was interesting that I found like I wanted to first discuss like, Your career as an investigator for San Louis Abispo County Public Defender's Office.

[00:02:54] I know throwing a curve ball here at you, you're thinking you're gonna talk surf surfboards. No, we're gonna talk [00:03:00] about your career for a second. Right? Yeah. I, it was really interesting, like, uh, and I started researching like what, what that is, what that position does. Uh, I was hoping you could describe a little bit of that to your listeners, first to our listeners.

[00:03:13] ​Sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, um, after college I was a philosophy major in college. Yeah. And so one of the thoughts with that degree was maybe I'll pursue a law degree afterwards. Mm-hmm. And so, uh, we had a family friend who was a judge and she recommended I look into being an investigator at a public defender.

[00:03:38] Um, and. What the investigator does is it, they assist the attorneys with preparing their cases to go to trial, which involves interviewing witnesses, finding people, subpoenaing people, sometimes, uh, bringing those folks, helping get those folks to court. Um, sometimes sitting in trial with attorneys and so on.

[00:03:58] So it involved a lot of driving [00:04:00] around the county and knocking on doors and, um, doing what you can to assist in the defense of people who are being represented by public defenders. Do you end up digging through trash and finding out extra evidence? Like, I have this envision of like, uh, the good wife, you know, where they have like a little, the, the, they have like those little investigators with them and I'm like imagining that when I was reading it.

[00:04:22] Yeah, yeah. No, it's a trip. It, it's funny how, uh, it, the cases that I worked on ranged from everything from, you know, um, misdemeanor, like drunken Publix to, uh, attempted murder felonies ca felony cases. So, Um, depending on the case, it varied wildly what kind of information you were actually looking for. Um, oftentimes, um, what you are doing is more in, in mitigation.

[00:04:49] Yeah. So you're looking for things that will diminish the, um, charge against that defendant. Mm-hmm. And so, uh, for instance, in one [00:05:00] particular case, um, I'm trying to think of how many details I'm allowed. I, I can share of course, of course. But essentially a, a person assaulted another person with an object, and my job was to discover the.

[00:05:13] Makeup of that object. Let's just say it was a bottle. Was the bottle plastic or glass? Yeah. Was it a 10 ounce bottle or was it a 24 ounce bottle? Mm-hmm. Um, did the damage that occurred was that object already damaged to begin with? Mm-hmm. Um, things like that. But most of, most of what it was, was actually interviewing people as opposed to Yeah.

[00:05:34] Digging through trash and that kind of thing. Really a lot of talking to witnesses, victims, neighbors, that kind of thing. Wow. Yeah. So you're like primed to be a good podcast host then? I don't know about that. I haven't, I haven't dipped my toe in that, uh, career just yet. Yeah. I mean, how long have you been doing that for then?

[00:05:54] I did that for 11 years. Um, and until 2019. And then 2019 is when you, [00:06:00] you took the, the leap to just shaping boards, right? Uh, yeah. So I, I discovered that law school was not going to be my trajectory. Mm-hmm. And so I, uh, I, in the meantime, I had been shaping boards at night and on weekends and for friends here and there.

[00:06:15] And then, um, long story short, trickled, slowly up and up and I got busy enough to where it became feasible to make that leap, and I did. Wow. So let's, let's, well, one, one question. I wanted to go back. Had you ever had to investigate a surfer when you were doing that? You know what's funny is I, I actually did have a witness who was a surfer, a kind of known local surfer who I, I just knew from the water.

[00:06:41] Yeah. And I had left him. Uh, several, several messages, both at his home written and on the phone, and I ran into him in the water. No way. Yeah. And then you're like, you've been served buddy. Now I'm gonna drop in on you. It was the thing that got his attention, actually. It was hilarious. I was like, Hey, uh, I've been trying to get ahold of you.[00:07:00]

[00:07:00] What, what'd you do with a Yeah, that's, that's hilarious. Yeah. I mean, I imagine like, you know, like, uh, Leonard Bay Pro, you know Sure. They would have, uh, their hands full with that. Yeah. I mean, you know exactly where those guys are surfing, right? It's no mystery. Exactly. Yeah. It's kind of, kind of a kind of a, a g G rated point, break version basically.

[00:07:24] Yeah. Um, so let's, let's go back like. 2007 is when you started shaping Boars 2008. About 2008, yeah. So I graduated, um, Cal Poly in 2007 and um, ended up getting the public defender's job shortly thereafter. Yeah. And I'd always wanted to shape surfboards. Um, since I was a little kid. I always loved, you know, surf shops looking at all the different shapes and so on, and, but I never had.

[00:07:54] Kind of an in as to how to go about it. Cal Poly actually launched their, they have in [00:08:00] the craft center, uh, shaping class that you can take. Really? Uh, I was never able to get into it. It always filled up immediately. Like the day that they would announce that it was open, it was immediately filled. It wasn't for a college credit or anything.

[00:08:11] Yeah. But it was a, a cool opportunity. Um, so I was a little frustrated by that. And I finally, I, I had been nerding out on Sway Locks. Mm-hmm. Which is a online design form, very Web 1.0. Yes. Um, kind of familiar, if, if listeners aren't familiar, it's almost like Reddit, but for surfboard design. Um, how many shaping careers have been launched from that site, do you think?

[00:08:33] I have no idea. I know. For instance, like Ryan Loveless was a frequent poster at the time. Absolutely. Uh, which was interesting. He learned from like YouTube videos too and other, other means online. You know, he was, he didn't really even have any like, mentor or anything to really Right. Guide him with that, that, yeah.

[00:08:50] So I was in a similar boat. I was, I would look at his questions actually, and, and the threads that he would spark at, at that time as well. Um, [00:09:00] right at the same time I was starting to shape. And so yeah, that was essentially the it to begin with. Um, and so I eventually, I was renting a house that had a little tough shed in the backyard.

[00:09:11] Those plastic, yeah. Home Depot sheds. Mm-hmm. And so, um, I finally had a little cash in my pocket because of the job, and I'd spent about a year lurking on the forums and finally went to Home Depot and bought a Bosch planner and, Start hacking away in the backyard. I duct taped lights to the wall. It didn't, I couldn't find a way to rig lights properly, so I just duct taped them.

[00:09:34] It's interesting. Like what, like, explain to our listeners like what's involved in, in learning the craft, especially from, from scratch with no guidance. You know, like I, so like, I just recently had incredible experience of, um, having, I wouldn't say shaped a board, but having helped shape a board with, uh, poem Surf Craft with Jimmy O'Brien.

[00:09:58] Oh, great. He's super nice. He's [00:10:00] incredible. Yeah. And, and it's just like, I wouldn't, like, I've shaped boards as a kid, you know, I've stripped down boards. Mm-hmm. Taken off the fiberglass and, you know, took a planer and, you know, and did everything but like, no clue, you know, no proper clue and like, you know, really pointy noses and crazy deep concaves and Oh yeah.

[00:10:20] You know, something that I would never even be able to float on, you know? Cause I've just shaved it down so much, you know? And I, I guess like, so you said it was like a year of just studying it, like what's that initial first run through the blank, then your first time and it's like, yeah, I bought a few blanks from, uh, fiberglass Hawaii in Ventura, uh, to begin.

[00:10:42] And in that batch of blanks, they got a, um, one of 'em was a seconds blank, a seconds quality blank. Yeah. Which means it has holes or flaws or whatever. Um, and I, I knew for my first one, I had never used any of these tools before and I'm not particularly naturally adept at tools anyways. It was just, um, the [00:11:00] curiosity for the surfing side that kind of got me into it more.

[00:11:02] Yeah. More than anything. So the plan was to do the whole nine yards, uh, shape it, and then do a color job with cut lap and make a fin out of a fiberglass panel and just go all out on the first one. Oh my gosh. And the, the theory was do, uh, just to get familiar with the whole thing. I was like, all gas, no breaks, like yeah, just plow through it.

[00:11:24] So I probably shaped it in like an hour and a half and then straightaway started to try and glass it. I, it, I took, uh, you know, backing up. I did make the fiberglass fin panel to begin with. Yeah. Which, which did take a little bit more time. But, um, but yeah, the thing I still have it is just completely haggard.

[00:11:42] It's a total mess. It floats, but it's, it's the most. You know, caveman looking board you've ever seen. Horrendous. So the ones thereafter, I, I took more time on, but, um, but yeah, I had never used any of those tools before, so I just figured, you know what, why not just go all out on the first [00:12:00] one and just kind of get, get it out of the way.

[00:12:02] It's terrifying. Yeah. Holding a plane for the first time. Oh yeah. Like, you don't know, like how much pressure to apply. Right. How much to open up the planner a little bit. Yeah. And what I mean, listeners, by opening it up is like you open up the mouth of like the, the, the depth of the cut, depth of the cut, basically.

[00:12:20] Right. And it's just like jar, like, oh, that's too much. Yeah. Pull back. You know, it's easy to gouge and Yeah. It's a, it's definitely a fuel thing for sure. I got a heavy hand, I'll tell you that. Yeah. What, um, Were you ever, had you done any sort of work, like manual work with your hands before that? Like, were you skilled in any way?

[00:12:44] No. Are you, not really, are you a detailed oriented person by nature, would you say? I'm really into design and aesthetics. Mm-hmm. Um, but as far as like using tools, it wasn't really in my, in my wheelhouse at that point. And [00:13:00] I, um, was curious how things are put together. One of my favorite books when I was a kid was this, um, it's almost an encyclopedia of objects.

[00:13:08] It's like how things work. I think they, my mom bought it at Costco or something. Oh wow. And it was like, um, just a, just, you know, how it, it would have these like cutaway photos of, you know, airplanes and showing all the parts and layers and houses and, you know, all kinds of objects. The space shuttle was one of them.

[00:13:26] Um, so I've always been curious about those things, but I didn't really have the background or opportunity to use tools in that way before. Let me ask, like, do you, like, I feel like to be a good shaper, it's not like, I mean, I think you can have many different traits to be a good shaper. One of them I think is like the, the concept, being able to conceptualize Mm uh, functionality of design.

[00:13:53] Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, like being able to, to know like, oh, this rail is soft. It's going to do this. Like being [00:14:00] able to kind of understand that. Yeah. Like had you always had, do you have something, do you feel you have something like that? And do you think like that was something like, you know, like having this book, like how things are made, like kind of understand intuitively understanding from, from that sort of, uh, experience.

[00:14:17] Right. Yeah. I, I just remember, I mean, ever since I was interested in surfing, which was since I was a, a little kid, um, I was just, Totally enamored with board design. Um, before I surfed, I was really into bodyboarding. Mm. And I, I like, kind of took it seriously, you know, so I was, I kind of took it seriously To what age?

[00:14:36] Well, till about 12. Right. Okay. So like I, but I thought like, oh my God, the ars, right? The air roll spin is like the coolest move ever. Yeah. Like that kind of thing. Um, you know, I idolized the guys who had surfed the we, Mike Stewart. Yeah. Mike Stewart absolutely is like a human fish. Ben Severson. Jeremy Tomago.

[00:14:52] I had the Ben Severson designs. Yeah, of course. My first, my first actual nice piece of Surf craft was a Tubes Bodyboard. It was a Tubes [00:15:00] 10, which Tubes is based in Mor Bay. So being on the Central coast now, I, I pass their factory all the time. It's a trip. Um, but I just remember being completely enamored with surfboards and body boards.

[00:15:11] I remember thinking the back tail was the most ingenious design innovation ever because it, you know, married the Arc tail with the Crescent Tail. So you get kind of a best of both worlds effect. Mm-hmm. With a little channel, you know, like, yeah. All those details really just. Um, were fascinating to me. So I think, I feel like it's a thing I've been thinking about for a very long time.

[00:15:31] I sometimes wonder if, um, like being prone. Yeah. Uh, and I'm, this is not to just exclude, you don't have to just say body boarders, but also mat surfers. I feel like by doing that you get a better sense and feel of what your, uh, riding equipment can and can't do because of that, as opposed to standing and surfing where you're really feeling it through your feet.

[00:15:54] Sure. When you're prone, you're really feeling your whole body and you can kind of feel different parts of the, the, the [00:16:00] craft and what it's doing. Yeah. I could see that. I, I, I think the benefit to being prone is you feel much more involved with the wave. Mm-hmm. A lot of your body is kind of in the wave, even on a body board, when you're have that much of, um, buoyancy, you're still using like your whole like thigh and leg to stall and then releasing to get speed and you have a much more, I guess, Intimate relationship.

[00:16:24] Yeah. It feels like with the, the wave, um, with the craft, I, I feel like, you know, the fascination of craft with me is, is how they feel more than anything else. And, um, yeah, I, I think there's just different sensations that being prone enables you to experience versus standing up, growing up on the central coast in surfing must have been quite a unique experience.

[00:16:49] I didn't grow up there. No, no. I grew up in Orange County. Oh, okay. Yeah. I didn't know. All right. I, I'm sorry. No, yeah, that's okay. I, um, I grew up, it's hard to find all that biography and stuff on there, man. [00:17:00] Yeah. There's, uh, the, the, uh, there's not a ton out there, I suppose. Yeah. But, um, but no, I grew up in intestine.

[00:17:07] Okay. Which is about 30 minutes inland from Newport Beach. Okay. 30 minutes on with no traffic or an hour and a half with traffic. But, um, But yeah. Um, and then I moved up to Cal to go to Cal Poly for college in 2003, and then stayed up there. Basically I stayed, yeah. So when I graduated and I was applying to those legal related jobs, I applied to about 45 or 50 in San Francisco.

[00:17:30] Mm-hmm. Cause all my friends were moving there. Yeah. And I applied to one in San Lupo and I got the one. Nice. So, so it kept me in town. It was good. It was a very fortuitous event for sure. So first growing up then surfing. Were you, you, you mostly go into the Jets in Newport then? Yeah, so, uh, we had a lot of family friends in Laguna Beach.

[00:17:49] Mm-hmm. So Main Beach, Laguna was like kind of the home base and then Yeah, the Jets, like when I was a little bit older in high school, uh, going like 56th Street and that kind of thing. And then I had a buddy whose older brother would take us [00:18:00] down to Trestles sometimes too. So, so coming to New York and Rockaway and seeing the jetties must have been nice and familiar for you.

[00:18:06] Super familiar. Yeah. It's a very similar vibe. Yeah. Isn't it? For sure. Yeah. Well, similar and not similar, you know. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. But as far as the surf goes, it was interesting to see how at the fish fry Yeah. That we were at, uh, how familiar that that did feel. Nice Central Coast. Then surfing though is quite a different experience in Orange County.

[00:18:29] No, night and day. Yeah, for sure. Can you give our listeners like a bit of, like a juxtaposition between the two, like Sure. It, I would say the surf is much, uh, more fickle. Mm-hmm. It has its day for sure. Um, and it's, you know, foggy and windy. It's just a lot more weather elements and then you have kind of a little spooky element too.

[00:18:50] Yeah. Um, but it's a lot less crowded, which is nice. Uh, it took me about, I'd say 10 years to understand what all the little nooks and crannies kind of do. [00:19:00] And I, I'm still learning all the time. I mean, we just had one of our wettest winters ever in California, and there's, you know, just new little spots crop up when there's a lot of rain and then there's, you know, they go away just as quickly as they appear.

[00:19:13] And it's always some little novelty. It seems like Morro Bay is real interesting, you know, it's kind of, you know, it's a preserved park, right? Like it's a re like, it, you don't have, like, there's not a lot of structures around and you can really, it kind of feels wild almost. I feel there's a lot of open spaces.

[00:19:32] Yeah. Not that's really nice. Yeah. And, and it's sharky too, a little bit or feels like it, it does feel that way. There's, there's been some encounters for sure. Do you, I have to ask this then like, you know, do you ever cross paths with Dave Parmenter? Uh, you know, he's in Kauai now, but he was lives in Kaus for, for quite a while.

[00:19:54] Right. I think he, he grew up there. I think he grew up there and then he was shaping actually out of a bay next to my [00:20:00] Glasser, Myla Glasser's. Um, the main Glasser I work with is Israel Meneses. Mm-hmm. Sticks and Logs, last works. And he's based in San Lu Obisbo. And Dave was, um, in the same, uh, rental property.

[00:20:13] Uh, there's a little tiny shaping bay and that was Dave's Bay for years and years. Wow. And so I got to, you know, he is a. Fairly, uh, um, what, what's the word for it? Prickly. Oh, uh, I wasn't gonna say that. I was gonna say maybe more, uh, not secretive, but a little bit he keeps to himself. Yeah. Um, but I, I did have a few really great conversations with him and, and he's been very encouraging actually, which was nice.

[00:20:38] Oh, that's incredible. Yeah. That must have been really cool. It did feel good. Yeah, cuz we're getting, you know, all, both of our boards glossed at the same spot and he just had a couple nice words. Not That's nice. Ah, yeah. Let me ask then, like, were there any shapers who influenced you or, or anyone that, that.

[00:20:57] You know, was able to, were you able to get [00:21:00] any sort of guidance from Shapers? Sure, yeah. Um, definitely. I've, I've, especially at the start was like, I had questions for anyone who had any kind of knowledge. Right? Yeah. And so there's a guy who owns the, um, main supply shop in town, Nick Cooper. Yeah. Who I would ask him a million questions.

[00:21:18] Yeah. And so, um, Nick's been a huge source of information. Um, his label is Coop Deville surfboards. He's not shaping anymore. Yeah. Uh, but maybe if enough people bug him, he'll, he'll make some more. We'll see. Um, and then, uh, mark Andrene, actually, I met him when I was surfing in Pismo and he, he, uh, looks, he pulls into the parking spot across from me as I was getting suited up to paddle out.

[00:21:47] Wow. And I was tripping cuz I was like, oh my God, that's Mark Andrene. And he. Uh, looks over and he is like, oh, did you shape that board? And, and you're like, yeah, I, I copied one of yours. It wasn't quite a copy. It [00:22:00] was a single fin longboard, um, uh, with a pintail. Mm-hmm. And kind of slightly narrower nose a little bit, um, like a piggy kind of thing.

[00:22:08] And he looked it over and he was just really nice. And he's like, I wanna ride this thing. No way. Yeah. So we swapped boards in the water and he wrote it and he was just so nice and, and, uh, encouraging. And, um, eventually, you know, and then, so I got his email address and was asking him a couple questions here and there over the years.

[00:22:25] Um, and then eventually I ordered a board for him under the condition that I got to watch him shape it. So I got to way drive up to, um, his spot and watch him shape that one. It was a ten one, uh, Vaccaro. Wow. And then I took it home and I got to glass it, and that was a really cool experience. What, I mean, what'd you pick up from that?

[00:22:44] That, well, like, I imagine like when you see such, um, experienced shaper, right? Yeah. Like you're. You just watch the efficiencies, I guess. Yeah. But that like, you're like, oh, that's, that's how you do it, or, sure. I don't know. [00:23:00] Like what, what, what did you pick up from that type of experience? Every time I've had the opportunity to watch somebody shape, everybody does it differently.

[00:23:07] Mm-hmm. And that's been really interesting. Like everyone has their own body movements and own style with the planner and own kind of order of operations too. Mm-hmm. Um, with Mark, he absolutely attacked the blank. Like he was running laps around this ten one and he start to finish in like an hour and a half.

[00:23:29] Like the guy was just a maniac, foam was flying everywhere. Wow. Um, and it was just wild to watch. He's a, he's a master and the thing is just a masterpiece. It came out beautifully and I couldn't, it was hard to keep track of what he was doing, to be honest, because I was so, New at shaping at the time, and he was moving so quickly.

[00:23:47] Yeah. Um, that it was just kind of, I just sat there with my jaw on the floor, you know, and then I, I've actually had the opportunity to watch, um, Ryan Loveless shape in, in person once years ago. [00:24:00] Um, and he was kind of just as quick, but almost an opposite approach where he is extremely deliberate and precise mm-hmm.

[00:24:07] With each plainer cut and, you know, just extremely clean in his approach. But the end result of course, was just beautiful. Perfect. Um, so yeah, it's, it's, it's fascinating to see like how different people do it very differently from one another, but the end result can still be just amazing. There, there are no one paths to, to the top of the pyramid.

[00:24:32] No. You know, there are many different ways to get up top, I feel like. And it, I wonder, like I sometimes wonder with shapers like, If there are certain personality traits that are common amongst them, and I don't know, like, um, you know, I've met, I've met quite a few and, and there's definitely, I don't know what it is like there, there's definitely a, a mechanic kind of vibe [00:25:00] to it, I feel like.

[00:25:01] Is that, would that be, uh, I don't know what you mean. What do, how mechanic, how like a mechanic, like, you know, uh, like someone doing almost like auto work, you know, it's like, it's it's not, it's not so precious sometimes. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. They're, I feel, I feel like I'm a toy maker. Yeah. Like, I, I'm making toys for like, grown, grown people.

[00:25:23] Um, and yeah, it, there is something a little bit more, um, maybe blue collar about it, like you're saying. Yeah. Uh, it's not so precious of an object. You're gonna go kick it around in the ocean, you know, you're gonna. Uh, throw the thing in the back of your truck and, you know, so there, the object itself is meant to be used.

[00:25:43] It's not to be hung on a wall and, and just like admired from afar. It's something that you want to physically interact with. And the act of making it is very physical too. Mm-hmm. So there's something to that. It's funny, like, I feel like with even like carpenters, right? Like I, I used to work, uh, you know, [00:26:00] uh, remodeling bathrooms and stuff and I was Tyler, the Tyler A.

[00:26:04] Little bit and, uh, in, in the uk and yeah, it always amazed me cuz I, I, you had to almost make a mess of everything. Yeah. And then everything underneath is kind of like, Not pr always pristine and not always perfect, but 9%. Yeah. You end up coming with this finished product that looks amazing, you know?

[00:26:23] Absolutely. And I feel like surfboard shaping can be a lot like that. It's, it's very much like that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had shaped for years in the garage. I had built auto room and just the, the dust alone is just insane. So you just have to make friends with dust big time. Yeah. Do you, um, so when you started shaping, uh, and, and like on your website and the about page, you talk about like there were these niche boards, right?

[00:26:51] Mm-hmm. Yeah. That, that you wanted to make and that you, you hadn't ridden and seen even macho, I guess. Right. And, and especially [00:27:00] around that time, 2008 I remember is like when. This movement of those niche boards started to be, I hate calling 'em alternative. Yeah. You know, because it's the name that people use though for sure.

[00:27:10] Everyone uses it, but it's like, well now they're, they're probably the norm compared to high performance boards, you know? Well, and it's such like a wide basket, right? Like totally. You can, anything from like a 11 foot glider to a knee board is considered alternative surf craft. Right. So, yeah. So, but it, I mean, so, so was that like the impetus for you was that the real motivation was because you wanted a hundred, you wanted to try all these other boards?

[00:27:36] I wanted to try 'em. And then I think there was also kind of an ethos of, um, of like, in order to be a real surfer or something, you had to shape aboard, right? This is something that if you've read the magazines in the nineties Yeah. You kind of got this message kind of sent to you. So I was like, ah, you know, it was something I always just wanted to try at least.

[00:27:54] Mm-hmm. Um, and yeah, like I, I had actually seen a good friend of mine. [00:28:00] Had, um, shaped a board at that Cal Poly class. Yeah. But then he glassed it in my garage, so I got to see him glass it in my garage and it was really, um, you know, cool to watch him do it, but it was also really freeing because it was, it felt like, oh, I can do that.

[00:28:14] You know, it felt more accessible once I'd seen a friend kind of mess around with the construction. Um, but yeah, the impetus was definitely to try all those different niche designs. I, I'm not the best surfer in the world for sure. Mm-hmm. Um, but I, I've been in the ocean since I was a little kid, since I can remember basically.

[00:28:32] And, um, I always really enjoyed just trying different things like from body surfing to bodyboarding to longboarding to a shortboard, and just kind of getting different experiences in the water more than anything. I just like being in the water, but waves as we know. Right. Like different days call for different things.

[00:28:51] Yeah. So having like the right board for the right conditions was always something that interested me. It's, it's funny like [00:29:00] how we build up this mystique around it. Mm-hmm. You know, like you said, it became more accessible. Like when you don't see it and don't do it, it's almost like magician magic, you know?

[00:29:10] Right. It's kind of like, it's intimidating. I, I guess. Yeah. Do you, especially cuz it's like you're playing with chemicals and resin kicks, you know, you can start a fire and like you, there's kind of a lot that can go wrong in some ways. Well, let me ask it, like, how many, like how many of your boards do you do glass now?

[00:29:29] Like, you have a glass house, but you, you took that on to learn how to glass. Yeah, I really laminating, which is fucking hard. Yeah. I like glassing. I didn't like it for a little bit, but I, I, I enjoy it now. I've, um, I glass only my personal boards and sometimes I'll do color work on mm-hmm. Customer boards, but for the most part I just glass my own personal boards.

[00:29:50] It's interesting cuz there's not a lot of LA like it feels like there's a, a lack of laminators out there these days. Right, right. Like you, it's kind of a, a, [00:30:00] uh, a job that doesn't get the prestige it probably deserves. Right. I think a hundred percent. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It's, it's like the shaper has the name, but you very rarely hear about the Glasser or Glasshouse or whatever, you know, and Right.

[00:30:14] It's kind of interesting how they're, they're like the unsung heroes of a thousand percent surfboards. Yeah, no, that's, that's a really difficult job. And to find a good Glasser is very, very difficult. Um, I've, I've worked with several different shops in the past and now I'm just down to two that I'll work with.

[00:30:31] Really Is, is real and slow. And then actually up in Mor Bay, there's a guy, Corey Richmond, who does a really good job too. It's, it's a, but I've had some really bad experiences because it's a, it's a dirty job. You're working with, you know, um, some pretty intense chemicals and you have to be, in order to be good at it, you have to be very patient and very detail oriented.

[00:30:51] And, uh, there's ways that people try and shortcut the process that lead to, um, much s shadier [00:31:00] product. Yeah. And so you have to find people who aren't willing to do that. Sorry. Um, it's interesting cuz um, I feel like the one thing about glassing is like, you, you know, you can, right now, sh boards can be shaped by machines for the most part.

[00:31:18] Right. Obviously you gotta sand it down and, and finish it, which is, you know, still a, a really, uh, important skillset. There's no automation process for glassing boards. Right. You know, vacuum bagging is probably the closest. Yeah. To it. And even that is, that is not even, you know, that's not even halfway done.

[00:31:37] Right. I've heard there in Europe or something, there's a robot that actually can glass the surfboard, but it's just so cost prohibitive at this point that you wouldn't really do that. Vacuum bagging is, is as far as I understand, I haven't done it myself. Yeah. But I've chatted with folks about it and kind of nerded out on it, on the internet is actually still, um, fairly boutique and, and hand hand oriented.

[00:31:59] [00:32:00] Yeah. Like that's a heavily hand oriented still. Right. It's a more efficient use of resin, but then you have the bag is disposed at the end, so you're still creating a lot of plastic waste in other ways. It's, yeah, it's interesting. It's, it's intriguing from a performance standpoint to me more than anything else.

[00:32:16] I would, I've always played around with ideas on, on this with Mike Becker, who's a shaper here in New York. Okay. And he's, he's like a shop teacher as well, and he's, oh, that's a perfect crossover. Oh my God. It's so, it's so good. He gets kids in his shop class to make racks for his store and everything, you know, it's kind of amazing.

[00:32:35] But, uh, we always, like, he's always trying to find a more efficient way of doing things. He's, he's, uh, you know, a, a kind of a tinker of sorts. He loves to invent stuff, and we're always trying to think of different ways you could glass, abor auto more automatically, you know, or mm-hmm. Or automated a little bit more that process and make, and get that consistency, because that's also the really difficult part is being a consistent [00:33:00] glasser.

[00:33:00] Absolutely. Yeah. I, I think it comes down to that, and I suppose the vacuum bag is good in that regard too. It's a, makes a much more even lamination and, and lighter and good use of material. But, um, but yeah, it's a, it's an endless pursuit, right? You're always trying to find that more efficient. Yeah.

[00:33:17] Cleaner, better, faster is, um, what was the first glass job like for you? Oh, it was horrendous. Like I, I wa used way too much catalyst. The pot got so hot and was there steam coming off, smoke coming out or what? Yes. At, yeah. The, the remaining resin that wasn't on the board was smoking it. I thought I was gonna start a fire in my backyard.

[00:33:37] It was, it was a disaster. Did you get any bugs in there? Oh yeah. It was in the, it was in the backyard, in the open air. Right. And so, yeah, there's bugs and grass and all kinds of stuff in, in that glass job. Tons of bubbles. Had to, when I was, you know, before you hot coat, you grind your laps. And my laps were just the most rugged, jagged, like full of bubbles.

[00:33:59] Horrendous. [00:34:00] Yeah. Unbelievable. But you learn, you know? Oh yeah. No, it was super fun. When, when did you start to feel comfortable enough where you could start like selling your boards? Yeah, that's a good question. I, um, it just started kind of organically, I think, maybe I wanna say my first board that I actually sold to somebody who wasn't like a friend, just covering the cost of materials.

[00:34:26] Mm-hmm. It was quite a while after I started, it was probably like six or seven years after I started, maybe, maybe less than that, five or six years. Wow. Yeah. It's, it's wild. Like, you know, you just, it, it takes such a long time. Um, I'm curious then, like, when, when was that jump, you know, it was 2019, you said, where you, you're like, this is gonna be your full-time.

[00:34:49] Was that just like, how, how, how did you come to that conclusion like, right, I'm gonna make this my full-time gig. Yeah. So, um, [00:35:00] over the years, like I said, I just did a, a few a year for the first couple years and then it was a couple more, cuz you'd get a couple of buddies and then they want another one or that kind of thing.

[00:35:08] They'd tell their friends, you sell some on Craigslist, they tell their friends and then that, that person who bought it from you on Craigslist comes back for another one. Nice. Um, and then at some point, I'm trying to remember the year, I think it might have been 20, uh, maybe it was 20 15, 16. Somewhere in, in that there, uh, I became friends with Kyle Canelli, who opened Daydream Surf Shop.

[00:35:31] Mm-hmm. Yeah. And when they opened, um, they stocked my boards, which was very cool of them. Yeah. And they, that was very cool to get that support and they were an immediate success. And so, um, people started to know my name in that. Area. Costa Mason, Newport Beach zone. Mm-hmm. I started getting custom orders through that.

[00:35:51] Wow. And then, um, a few years later I was making boards for a friend up in San Francisco and he ran into an, an old buddy of his, who we had surfed [00:36:00] with a few times, Joe Childress, who became the manager at Mollusk. And then he ran into, um, Joe while surfing one of my boards. And Joe asked about the board and he was like, oh, Shay shaved it.

[00:36:11] And it's like, oh, we've surfed with him. Shay's cool. We should get his boards in Mollus. So I got that call while I was at, you know, um, at work and Wow. And I was pretty over the moon on that. I mean, that was just a huge break for me. They have a huge reach of course. And so then that in the Bay Area, I started getting custom orders through that and selling boards through Mollusk.

[00:36:32] Um, they, once they started ordering, they've been pretty consistent. Um, and so those two, uh, shops really. I guess exposed my name to a lot more people. Mm-hmm. Um, locally, central Coast Surfboards and Shelves, beach Surf Shop. Both started carrying my boards as well. And so it was just like through shops basically.

[00:36:55] I, I got a little bit more, uh, notoriety and a little bit more [00:37:00] exposure to folks who weren't, um, just my friends. And then I was pretty consistent about posting on Instagram too. When I would make boards, I'd put 'em on Instagram and just kind of just was consistent about that over the years. So then that started to grow as well.

[00:37:14] So, um, yeah, it was, there wasn't really a moment per se other than I just started getting busy enough with the boards that it was like, oh, okay. You know, cuz I, I'd been selling boards to Daydream and malls for a couple years before, um, before I actually made the jump. Were you nervous? Oh yeah, definitely.

[00:37:35] Yeah, of course. Like going from a consistent job paycheck to a whole new. Program, you know, a hundred percent. Yeah. And I had always had, uh, a very consistent paycheck as well. Um, I was always, since I was 20, uh, 15 years old, I'd always had a restaurant job. Yeah. All through college and then a little bit after, and then, yeah.

[00:37:56] So, um, so yeah, it was, you know, it was [00:38:00] a little bit of a leap of faith and it's been a total rollercoaster, to be honest. It's been full, full feast, full famine, and then everything in between. It's it month to month. It just changes every, every month. What's been most surprising to you about starting a surfboard business?

[00:38:16] Surprising. That's a good question. Um, I don't know. Maybe, maybe the breadth of people who I get to meet. It's really fun. That's been a really fun thing, is like you meet just a huge variety of folks who surf. Um, kind of like your podcast, right? You talk to a wide variety of people and the common thread is surfing.

[00:38:36] Mm-hmm. It's kind of the same thing. You, you know, meet really professional folks to the total. Hippie surf bum guy and, and everything in between. And it's really fun to get to know people through this thing. Like you're kind of giving them a little bit of a slice of, of joy in their life, right? Ideally it's this thing that's gonna bring them a lot of happiness, so they're pretty excited to talk to you and meet you and then give you a ride report and then you end up becoming friends with [00:39:00] a lot of folks.

[00:39:01] It's, it's a really cool, kind of joyful thing. What about the business side of it? I always hear, like I, I I think like the stereotype is a lot of surfboard, shapers are great at shaping, but shit at business. Yeah. I think I fit into that. I'm stereotypical, I have no idea. I, I'd be the worst person to ask about the business side.

[00:39:24] I mean, I, I just, you know, um, I, I hope and pray that I get orders and that's about it. No, I, I, I've been trying to focus more on the business side of it. Um, that's been a big learning curve for me though, for sure. It it is, right? Like you're like, oh my God, I gotta think of all these things. And you have to, you know, you, everything from just buying in bulk and understanding, you know?

[00:39:48] Yeah. Like, oh, if I buy in bulk, I'll get it cheaper, but I have to front the money, which is also kind of stressful. Right. And then hope to sell the boards and then, you know, the business and surfing has always been, [00:40:00] you know, for a while, like being fronted the money from the shops and customers, but then that's even changed these days, you know?

[00:40:06] Right. I don't get to, I mean, I don't know if I should say that. Yeah. But I don't get deposits from shops. I do do wholesale. Right. Yeah. Like, I can't do consignment because that's a nightmare. No. But, um, but even on a wholesale order, for instance, you're fronting the money until net 30 after you deliver the product.

[00:40:21] Yeah. So it's like you're fronting the money the whole time you're building it. If a glass shop is backed up, you could be waiting 3, 4, 5 months for a board to get back from a glass shop. So then, You know, it's the time you order the blank, then the, to the time that you shape it, then to the, through the whole glassing process.

[00:40:38] Then 30 days after it's delivered is when you finally get paid. So, and that's to make your whatever, couple hundred bucks. So per board. Right. So like, it's, it's been really tricky on that end for sure. Klarna just gonna say Klarna. It's a program where like, uh, people can pay off things. Uh, you get paid up front.

[00:40:59] Mm. But people [00:41:00] pay it off in, in installments and it, you can do it for businesses too. That's interesting. Yeah. So when you deliver the boards, you can actually have your customers say, oh, we may wanna try Klarna. Actually, I'm sure the processing fees are outrageous, but Okay. It's kind of, I'm, cuz I, I, you know, I work in sales and, and I'm looking at other payment options for a lot of stuff too.

[00:41:20] So I, I've been trying to figure out best ways, cuz everyone wants net 30 on everything and Right. You know, and you're like, well I'm not, I need credit card up front and everyone gets pissed off, so. Right. Yep. Yeah, it's interesting. I've heard of other shapers actually switching to an upfront model, which makes more sense financially, but I just don't know.

[00:41:42] You know, how many customers would tolerate that? I haven't tried it. Yeah. Um, but I'm definitely open to input. If anyone out there is a business expert, I'm open to all listening who's good at business. Right. Yeah. I know. Wants to donate some times for time for a board. Sure. Uh, sure. Perhaps, yeah. [00:42:00] Do, does it change, like making it your full-time, does it change your perspective on the surfboard industry as well?

[00:42:09] Do you see, I feel like I'm so, like, I'm so small Yeah. Compared to the industry. Like I don't even. Have a really good understanding of what the industry is, to be honest. Yeah. Like, you know, I think of the industry and I think of brands like Channel Islands. Yeah. Or Lost or, or FireWire, these kind of larger scale operations.

[00:42:30] But I'm just, I'm literally in my backyard. I built a bay in my backyard and that's where I'm working. So like, um, yeah, it's, it's interesting. I feel like it's, so also working with the shops has shown how idiosyncratic, even from that end it is, each shop is its own weird little, yeah. Ecosystem. Organism, right.

[00:42:49] So like every, just kind of going back to the same thing as far as shaping, seems like everybody is doing just their own thing and none of it really [00:43:00] relates to the other guy. Not, maybe not none of it. But Do you, um, let me ask then, like, do you, do you ever have difficulty like staying on, on like a schedule then?

[00:43:16] Because of that freedom, you know, because you're not like going into an office anymore and it's like, it's kind of you making up your schedule. Yeah, a hundred percent. My favorite thing is when I'm just drowning in orders, cuz then I can just say, I'm just shaping. Yeah. And that's it. But, but then you get through the pile and then it's time to take care of like taxes and all that kind of fun stuff.

[00:43:36] So like, there's always something to be done. Mm-hmm For sure. But knowing what part of your business to work on at, at any given time is definitely one of my biggest challenges. Personally. Um, I recently did my seo, right? Like I've never paid attention to search engine stuff before, so that was like a whole a learning process cause I did it myself and, and [00:44:00] researched it and so on.

[00:44:01] And yeah, I feel like I'm constantly in this. Uh, running a small business thing, just constantly learning about new skills and trying to instill those in myself and, and figure out what I, I should be prioritizing. And then, yeah, I just became a dad too. And that's also Congratulations. Thank you. So that's hot.

[00:44:20] A whole wrinkle into knowing what to focus on too. Yeah. Your golden, your, your beautiful brown locks are about to turn gray. My man. I'm already starting. I got, I got it in the temples for sure. Get a little salt pepper going. Yeah. Yeah. Um, in shaping and in boards, like right now, like what is, like what sort of feel like, you talked about this in your bio and you talk about like experiencing these different boards.

[00:44:44] Like what sort of feel right now are you going after when you surf? Is it a drive, is it something maneuverable? Yeah. Um, is there a certain feeling you're chasing and trying to implement that into your boards? Yeah. To me it's super wave dependent [00:45:00] and so like when there's. Swell. I really like, um, these twins that I've been riding and a more high performance oriented twin fins.

[00:45:08] Mm-hmm. Um, I really love drive and inherent speed when a board, you don't have to pump, right? Like, if you stand up and you can feel the thing just wants to go. Mm-hmm. That is really fun for me. Speed is fun always. Yeah. Um, and when you can put it on a, on rail in a turn and feel the thing, just drive faster through that turn rather than burning speed, it just wants to accelerate through it.

[00:45:32] That's really what I'm kind of chasing when it's small. I love old school longboarding, and I, I've been really having a lot of fun, um, at certain spots on finless or semi finless boards too. Really, because you get the sense of speed on just tiny waves. You without friction, you're just, it, it, it feels like you're just a skipping stone on water and it's really fun.

[00:45:56] So trying to put some elements of control into that has been the [00:46:00] challenge. How big, uh, are those boards that you're making for the finless? For myself, I've just been writing five seven s Wow. So, so smaller, you know, on the smaller side, right? Yeah, yeah. The, the, there's a couple waves in particular that I've been surfing them at, so it's pretty like wave specific.

[00:46:16] Yeah. Um, and it's a shorter wave with like a kind of a steeper takeoff, and so it, even though it's small, it'll still tube. Um, and so I find that that shorter length is kind of helpful to kind of hook it. Under the takeoff pretty easily. Whereas if he had a point break, you'd want something a little longer maybe.

[00:46:37] That maybe, yeah. You can kind of Derrick Kind, you know? Yeah. Style, you know? Yeah. Oh, I, man, he is completely inspiring for sure. When he came through New York, he stayed with me and we got, I got to take him to some amazing places and get good waves and just how fun. I've never seen anyone go as fast. Yes.

[00:46:54] In my life, right? Yeah. Is incredible. Yeah. And the level of [00:47:00] control too. Exactly. So what are you doing then on the bottoms of those boards to help give you a little bit more grip, but without losing that friction, you know? Cause it's a fine balance, right? Like of, of having some, something to give some sort of stability.

[00:47:14] Yeah. But then you're like, Oh, we might as well just put a fin in almost, you know, too. Right. I have been playing with little fin Lits too. Yeah. Like I'll take plastics and grind them down to little nubs basically. And that's helpful to create, uh, drive and hold. Mm-hmm. Um, but then if they're small enough, you can still break 'em out really easily.

[00:47:31] Mm-hmm. So it has that same sensation. Maybe it's not like the pure finless thing, but as far as actually blasphemy to dairy, the experience of actually riding it is really enjoyable. So you can't ar I feel like you can't argue with that. But, um, on the pure finless ones just a kind of an array of concaves and channels gives more control.

[00:47:49] Um, yeah. So let's talk about this like little residency you're doing here. Sure. Uh, with King's Glassing, how did you connect with them? [00:48:00] Uh, can you give like our listeners a little bit of a, a description of who they are also? Right. So King's Glassing is Drew and Aaron Austin. Their two brothers I knew Drew from, uh, Santa Barbara through some mutual friends down there.

[00:48:14] And, uh, his older brother Aaron started King's Glassing, uh, about. I mean, not that long ago, like a year and a half ago or something. Yeah, yeah. Um, and I ran into Drew at a surfboard swap that I put on at a local coffee shop, field Day Coffee in San e Obispo. Best coffee and Slow. Shout out. Shout out. Yeah.

[00:48:33] Hi Randy. Um, and he was, he was selling a board and he told me, he's like, man, I'm moving to New York. I was like, no way. You know, that's so awesome. He's like, yeah, my, yeah. Like, why my brother is starting this glass shop. He's like, you should make boards there. I was like, I would love to. That sounds great.

[00:48:48] So, uh, drew gave me Aaron's number and we chatted and said, yeah, it sounds like fun. And I called, um, I, I got in contact with Chris mm-hmm. At Pilgrim. Mm-hmm. Ordered [00:49:00]some boards and, um, then Wally at Rhode Island Surf Company also ordered some boards. And so last year I came out for that trip and shaped my first batch with them.

[00:49:11] It was actually my first time ever traveling to shape, which was Wow. Interesting and challenging and fun. Um, And yeah, they're just epic. Uh, the Austin brothers are just the nicest guys you'll ever meet. Mm-hmm. And they're both really talented craftsmen Drew shapes sports too. Yeah. Uh, and does some really interesting asymmetrical and phish designs.

[00:49:30] Yeah. Um, and some other stuff too. Um, and Aaron is a really great artist with, uh, resin as well as with, uh, sprays. Mm-hmm. So they have this great aesthetic, really great craftsmanship and attention to detail and, and they've just been super welcoming and, um, helpful to me getting the chance to come make some boards here.

[00:49:51] What's been your perspective, like seeing the New York surf scene and it's epic. Yeah, it's so fun. It's a such a kind, you know, just like New York, it's a really wide swath [00:50:00] of people. It's a very friendly vibe. Mm-hmm. Which is interesting. I think New York has this reputation for being kind of like a hard, hard-edged kind of place.

[00:50:07] Yeah. But my experience of it's been the polar opposite. Like people are just so kind and it's just, um, yeah. It's a wide swath of, um, men and women and other folks and, um, you know, from a variety of backgrounds from all over the country too. It's not a lot of, well, I'm sure there's, there's definitely a ton of Native New Yorkers who surf as well.

[00:50:27] Represent. But, um, but um, also folks from all over the place who end up here usually for work, of course. Um, but who are hyped on surfing and, and yeah, just a, a fun, interesting swath of people. Um, What do you think of the waves? How have you, uh, you've been getting, you've, you've gotten lucky, man, I've had the best luck, honestly.

[00:50:50] Like, so everyone talks about how, uh, east coast surf is so fickle. But the two times I've come here, last trip last year and this time I've gotten great surf. Last year I surfed [00:51:00] New Jersey and it was the best waves I'd had in like a couple of years. Wow. Unbelievable. Yeah. Um, and then this year was maybe not quite to that level, but it was still really, really fun.

[00:51:10] Um, kind of peaky fun beach break. Um, I always again kind of heard that, oh, new York's only lefts, you know, you gotta go to New Jersey for rights. But at the, at the fish fry, it was like rights lefts, just kind of waves all over the place. It was, it was really, you got fucking lucky. That's what everyone keeps saying.

[00:51:28] Like, honestly, like I can tell you, I, I can count on like one hand out of like 16 years, uh, less than one hand of days where we've gotten decent weight, decent surf, like it's hilarious. Like May is kind of a fickle time Okay. Where you can kind of score sometimes, but sometimes it could just be really flat.

[00:51:51] Okay. And kind of black weather and it. Yeah, it was incredible on Sunday. Uh, beautiful. Yeah, just [00:52:00] offshore, clean, real fun. Yeah, perfect for, for riding fishes and yeah, riding really, really fun gliders and things of that nature. Yeah. I probably surfed nine or 10 different boards that morning. It was insane.

[00:52:13] What, uh, which boards were, uh, stood out to you, by the way? The original mini simmmons Right. Was fantastic. That was as sick as that board, a cool opportunity. I mean, you just, just the history of that board shaped by Joe bk. Yeah. Over 20 years ago. Um, the original hydrodynamic, uh, number one. Right. And Corins ridden it stuff.

[00:52:35] Gilmore's ridden it. A bunch of amazing surfers have ridden it. Yeah. And the thing is alive. It has like a manna to it that you can just feel, and yeah. As far as how it surfed, it was just really fast, really loose, catches everything. It's just a, a completely enjoyable piece of surf craft. It's. It's like four seven or four six.

[00:52:55] Like yeah. Teeny, but so wide. I think it's like 23 inches wide or something. Yeah. And like [00:53:00] I was able to surf it and Yeah. You know, I'm six foot three and, and I don't want to give away my weight, uh, cause I'm insecure. But, um, you know, it, it's so fast when it ha when there's a wave and there's down the line.

[00:53:14] Like our, our waves are very down the line too. Mm-hmm. A lot of it, there's not a lot of shoulder for the most part. Right. We tend to just be racing to the end section. And that board is so perfect, especially when you get kind of that high line on it and Oh yeah. And that lift and you're like, oh yeah, instant.

[00:53:33] What is this instant gas? It's great. And it's so loose. The, the half moon keels on it are really shallow. Yes. So it, you know, you think about making a turn and the thing just whips the tail around. It's, it's really fun watching RK surf it. Richard, Ken surf that board is, is incredible too. Like him. In person.

[00:53:54] It, it, it, it's pretty eye-opening. Like we've had some smaller days and watch him do it even and you're [00:54:00] like, holy crap. He's just really able to do full, complete round turns with it. It, it's pretty, pretty impressive. Yeah, I could definitely see that. Uh, what other boards did you get to try that, that you really enjoyed?

[00:54:14] I, there's this, um, I want to say it was like an eight two single fin per, it was a purple board and the top logo was true hands. I don't know if you saw that one. No, it didn't. Um, it was really rocker out. Or maybe not really, really rocker, but more than I would've expected because the bottom was all belly.

[00:54:35] It was like a displacement hole almost. Yeah. But like really narrow too. Like the thing was probably only 19 inches wide. Wow. For being that long. And that was really interesting. It had, uh, a displacement hole feel to it, but a little bit more responsive. I could see it being a great, like one board quiver.

[00:54:52] You could ride it in kneehigh waves and you could ride it in like triple overhead and it would be the same. Uh, experience almost. [00:55:00] It maybe not the same experience, but it would handle well in both of those conditions. Um, there's an asymmetrical manell. Yeah. Charles, Charles Mansell. Yeah. He's the best man.

[00:55:10] Great guy. Serious. I got to meet him. That was really fun, professor. Yeah, I could see that. He's, um, he's a real school professor. I call him professor, you know, I believe it. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah, that thing was interesting. It was a, uh, a twin on one side and a quad on the other, and different templates on both sides.

[00:55:28] I think the quad side had a double bump in the tail uhhuh. Um, whereas the single or the twin fin side had just a single, uh, line. It was the same template the whole way through. So, um, That thing was really fun and much more high performance than I was expecting based on how wide it was. Yeah. Um, what else was fun?

[00:55:49] Those long fishes. I didn't get to ride one of the long fishes cuz people kept taking 'em out. Yeah. I, I kept coming back to look for them. Uh, but those, those were really intriguing. I think it was, [00:56:00] um, uh, maybe Paul, Paul Chop Wood. Chopt Colbert, yeah. From Chop Wood, who is also a very nice person. That's the other thing is like, there's so many board builders out here who have just been so friendly and kind to me like it's, it's nice to, you know, be not being from here to get a warm welcome from that crew as well.

[00:56:17] Yeah. You know, it's, it's like, There's only like a couple who, like only a hand, like less than a handful who make it full-time living Sure. In many, many hobbyist shapers or, yeah. I don't even wanna say hobbyist even, but like part-time. Yeah. You know, it's not, not their bread and butter. Yeah. And they're able to still shape and, and are really talented too.

[00:56:38] Really good designers and good shapers. Um, but it is interesting, like, I think everyone is just kind of happy to meet and cross pollinate and talk to, uh, every anyone who loves surfboards, you know? Yeah. It's like, because there's such a lack of waves more often than not, I'm honestly, I'm telling you the truth.

[00:56:56] I don't believe you, uh, you know, we, we [00:57:00] have to obsess over things, you know? Sure. In the downtime and the surfboards are a great way to do that, you know? I mean, yeah. That's, I've been obsessed since forever, so I totally get it. Yeah. Um, let me ask then, like, you know, You're, you're here shaping. You got a lot of boards to go through.

[00:57:18] Yeah. Um, so I'm making this time on this trip, I'm making a batch for Stoke Act out on Nantucket Island. Mm-hmm. And Rhode Island Surf Company. And then there's still some customs as well. Uh, and some customs. Yes, exactly. Nice. Yeah. Are how is the, how is the shaping facilities for you? It's interesting shaping in the, I'm shaping in the sanding room at, uh, King's Glassing.

[00:57:42] And it is teeny tiny. It's by far the smallest, uh, shaping room I've ever, I've ever had the pleasure to shape in. So, but luckily they broke me in last year. Last year was a bit of a shocker, getting used to that situation this year. I knew what to expect. Is it, it must be weird for Shapers to go into [00:58:00] another shaping bay.

[00:58:00] Absolutely. Yeah. It's like you're, you're used to having your stuff all. You know, you know where it all is. Right, right. Like this muscle memory and it must be a little disorienting to kind of get your bearings in, in all these new spaces. Totally. Yeah. It shaping rooms are very like, and shops in general. I love going in people's shops.

[00:58:22] I have a friend who does metal work and mm-hmm. Um, yeah. Other friends who do other things. And it, it's always interesting to see people's workspaces cuz they are very personal. Yeah. And yeah, getting used to somebody else's space is definitely a trip, but I feel like it's, it's good for you. It kind of loosens you up and you get to see things from another person's perspective.

[00:58:43] I've, um, I've got to use different tools and then kind of bring those home and incorporate that into my own practice. And it's a good way to like learn some new tricks here and there. Yes. Yeah. Um, I want to wanna go back quickly just to the fish fry. And I wanna ask like, how often [00:59:00]now do you get to try other people's boards, reg normally.

[00:59:03] It's not super often, but I try and ride other people's board. I love boards. Like that's what got me into it. So I, I'm not so like, stuck in my ways that I won't write. I I love to try other shaper stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Like I, cuz I'm always curious like in how much people pull from that and, and that cross pollination of ideas from riding the equipment.

[00:59:23] Like I Yeah, a hundred percent. I don't know, like, I feel like certain shapers just only ride their own equipment and don't really get out of that, that zone. Yeah. That's a, that's one way to do it. I, I've always loved, like, for instance, brands that are really wide ranging in their design philosophy. Mm-hmm.

[00:59:42] Like, I love Hobi, right? Like yeah. Hobi made everything from boats to skim boards, you know, like they're, and yeah. You know, longboards and short boards, mid lengths fishes, everything. And that's again, going back to it like, I just love. Surf craft and, and I wanna try everything. [01:00:00] Do you ever get out on like a high performance shortboard anymore?

[01:00:04] Occasionally. Yeah. Yeah. I've, I don't have, I have a model called the duck face, which is, it's a round nose shortboard Yeah. That I've been working on over the years. That's my variation on that, uh, idea. And um, so I've been writing that a bunch. But I also will try friends and acquaintances, short boards in the water on occasion.

[01:00:25] And they're great. They do what they do, you know? Do you ever have the, um, interest to experiment with different, uh, technologies as well and different types of foams or different types of. You know, carbon or any, or anything to kind of play, play around with flex at all? Yeah, definitely. Like, um, I've shaped a few burial foam blanks.

[01:00:49] Mm-hmm. Which are really interesting. It's a closed cell, uh, foam that was developed for the aerospace industry that people are using to make surfboards now. It's blown with alcohol, which is interesting. When you're [01:01:00] shaping it, it it's pretty noxious like, um, you, it smells like, do you get, do you get drunk off it?

[01:01:05] I have to wear, I have to wear a chemical respirator to shape it. Wow. It's, it smells really strongly of like rubbing alcohol. Wow. It stinks up your room for weeks afterwards too. It's kind of a nightmare in that way, but the foam itself is extremely dense but light. Um, so if you take your thumb and try to squeeze a rail on it of the shaped blank without glassing it, it's basically as.

[01:01:28] As strong as like a, a glass board. It's crazy. Could you just surf that without glass in it, do you think? I've been curious about trying that, but they're so expensive. Yeah. Uh, like just the blank loan starts at like 250 bucks. Yeah. Might be more now. I haven't ordered one in quite a while. Yeah. Um, but I, I would be a little bit, uh, hesitant to try that experiment.

[01:01:49] But I, I'm curious cuz it, apparently if you do get a ding, it's so the closed cell structure is so tight that it actually will not take on water. Yeah. That's what I heard. And [01:02:00] I imagine like, I don't know, like I think it would be really cool to, to have a board. That's not glass that you could surf. Yeah.

[01:02:08] And then be like, you know, I need to make some refinements and then go shape it a little bit. Just like shave down a little bit and then kind of go back out, try it again. Yeah. Kind of refine, go back, you know, kind of be able to do something along those lines. I love that idea. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Like how cool would that be?

[01:02:25] Yeah, that'd be really fun. I imagine keep a sure form on the beach serious, right? Yeah, absolutely. The, the. Vario, I imagine that alcohol is, is probably just that, that evaporation, right? When you're shaping it, it's like it's releasing whatever moisture that was in there Yes. Is kind of coming out of that.

[01:02:41] I would imagine that's what, what's happening. Yeah. And that's why you're able to get it so light, but also closed cell probably, whereas water probably, I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know. I'm not, I'm just like, I'm, I'm so fascinated by that. By alternate materials. Absolutely. Yeah. No, it's, it's really fascinating.

[01:02:58] I, um, I'd love [01:03:00] to, I know that at the burial factory, they have a vacuum bagging process that creates a super tight uh, and light lamination, uh, that's incredibly durable. Yeah. As well. Um, so that vacuum bagging in combination with that material seems like a really great combo with my own that I've made out of that material.

[01:03:18] I've just hand laminated them just cuz that's what I, what I know how to do. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it, it's, it's definitely a fascinating thing. I love looking at, um, Uh, I think it's, uh, nine lights. Yeah. He's a guy based in, uh, Huntington Beach. I think his name's Jeff, uh, Beck, I think. Anyway, um, he has really interesting, uh, techniques for vacuum bagging and also doing, he's been doing some, I guess he's calling them uncased surfboards, but they're composite builds, so it's like, um, it's got some kind of core with like cork and wood skins that he then uses a varnish on instead of, uh, traditional glass.

[01:03:58] Mm. So I [01:04:00] might be getting the build process wrong. Yeah. But they're really fascinating to look at as far as like an alternative build that you're. Kind of describing, have you ever seen those, the dark arts boards or the Oh yeah. They, they're gorgeous. Yeah. It's incredible what they do. Yeah. The carbon and like then have the paint, you know, the glass, you know, they're able to color it, but then sand it down so you get that kind of brushed kind of, it reveals the material a little bit.

[01:04:25] Yeah. It's kind of wbi sabi a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. It's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, I feel like there's, we're still, there's still so much to explore. Oh, it's endless. You know, that's part of the fun of shaping too, and, and building surfboards is, there's a million ways to approach it and, yeah. Where then, you know, Danny has up in San Francisco making these wood, beautiful wood boards.

[01:04:46] Um, there's hollow builds you could do. Yeah. Um, sandwich constructions. It's, it's a total rabbit hole. Yeah. Well, um, Shay, where can our listeners find you? Where can they get [01:05:00]their info if they want to check out your boards? Yeah. So, um, uh, my Instagram is at shama, s h e a s o m m a. Mm-hmm. And my website is soma special designs.com.

[01:05:13] So it's S O M M a, special designs.com. And then, um, if you're on the East Coast, uh, Pilgrim has some on the rack mm-hmm. And Rhode Island Surf Co. And, uh, and Surf Act out in Nantucket Island will have some, a new batch coming soon. Um, and then on the West Coast, uh, mollusk as well as, uh, daydream mm-hmm. And Central Coast Surfboards and, uh, shell Beach Surf Shop.

[01:05:43] Are you planning on doing any other traveling for shaping any other places? Oh, you know what? And then also if you're in Costa Rica. Oh. I made a batch, uh, last year for them, and I think there's a couple left. Nice. I made 20, um, uh, Somos House of Somos. Wait, [01:06:00] I know, same. It's so close. Same name, right? I know Soma Somos.

[01:06:03] Yeah. Soma Somo. So, right. Yeah. No, that was, that was a really fun trip. And um, it's a great spot, really killer food. It's in Santa Teresa. Mm-hmm. In Costa Rica. Yeah. So a couple good waves around. There's a great beach break, beach break in front, and then there's a couple other waves around as well. And, um, killer food, killer atmosphere.

[01:06:22] And, and, uh, they have a surfboard factory on the premises. Wow. So, yeah, you, if you're, you know, down in the cafe you can look up and see some, someone shaping aboard. And then right next door is a glass, is the glassing room and it's all like, it's got glass, uh, fronting it, so you kind of feel like you're, you're on display a little bit cuz you are.

[01:06:42] Um, but it's, it makes it for a really interesting, unique spot. Yeah, I imagine you want to get back down there. I would be so stoked. Have me back, please, Jay. Well, thank you so much for coming on. We really appreciate uh, you coming in and also super stoked that you're [01:07:00] able to come out to New York and come to the fish Fry and shape boards at King's Glassing.

[01:07:05] Uh, listeners, if you get a chance, go check it out and uh, check out the boards cause they are beautiful and it's got thank you. Some really cool models and, uh, yeah, and, uh, don't forget to go check out swell season surf radio.com and also at Swell Season Surf Radio on Instagram. Gotta give a shout out to our engineer Joe here at Rockefeller Center.

[01:07:27] We are live and it's, uh, quite a trip, isn't it? Huh? Oh, yeah. It's pretty, pretty nuts. Like we're looking out the window, people were walking by and checking us out and like, what are they talking about? Out here. Absolutely. Uh, well, thank you so much for having me. It's a total pleasure and, and an honor. I, um, I really appreciate it.

[01:07:44] Oh, my pleasure. All right, and, uh, listeners will, uh, check you all down the line soon.[01:08:00]