The Last Train Home with Sean Aiken
Sean Aiken
[00:00:00]
Tyler: [00:01:00] Hello, and welcome to the Swell Season Surf Podcast. I'm your host, Tyler Brewer. In this episode, we head out to the edge of New York City, where the A train ends, the ocean begins, and somehow, against all odds, some of the most interesting creative energy in the city keeps washing ashore.
Our guest is Rockaway's own Sean Aiken, founder of Shawny's Pizza and the soon-to-open Crown Square Pizza, a new Detroit-style pizzeria bringing crispy cheese-edged square pies to the peninsula. But Sean's story is much bigger than pizza. It's about creative reinvention, about finding purpose through craft, about New York obsession, about DJ booths, late nights, pop-ups, beach communities, and the strange magic of building something real in a place most people overlook From [00:02:00] apprenticing at legendary New York pizza spots to running beachside pop-ups and launching his own podcast, The Last Train Home, which I highly recommend, Sean represents a certain kind of Rockaway spirit: independent, resilient, deeply local, but always dreaming bigger.
This is a conversation about pizza, yes, but also about identity, burnout, neighborhoods, creativity, and what keeps people chasing meaning in New York City. So grab a slice, crack a soda, and welcome Sean Aiken to the Swell Season Surf Podcast. Sean, welcome to the show.
Sean: Thank you. Thank you for that wonderful intro.
No. Appreciate it.
Tyler: My pleasure. Uh, before we start, I have to do a little advertising plug here, and it's a gift for you. Okay. And it's for your new pizza place. So I started a company, uh, recently called Everyday Objects, and it's fun novelty gift items. And I have here, this is our Slice and Dice Pizza [00:03:00] Hatchet.
Sean: Oh, that's so cool.
Tyler: Listeners, if you're watching on YouTube, uh, really cute, really fun pizza cutter- Oh, thank you ... here. It's a- Thank you
Sean: so much.
Tyler: And also for cleaning up the flour on your table is the Swipe and Wipe Credit Card Squeegee.
Sean: Oh,
Tyler: this is so cool. Uses to clean up, like, the flour and everything on your countertop and sink, and it's really fun, and it sits right on your sink, and it looks like a credit card.
And you, you know, and listeners, if you like to do cocaine, it's really good for that.
Sean: I like that the bottom of it says Dad.
Tyler: That's right. That's right. I have a Mom and Dad version too.
Sean: That's me. I'm Dad. Oh, this is great. Thank you so much.
Tyler: Yeah. I love it. I thought you'd be stoked and-
Sean: I love this. Yes, it's awesome
Tyler: my way to plug, but also, like, wanted to give you, like, a, like, a, a, a business warming gift, basically- I appreciate it. Yeah ... for your, your new location. Now
Sean: I'm gonna make the staff use it to cut every single pizza.
Tyler: No, I- And they're
Sean: all gonna quit ...
Tyler: I would put... I mean, it's good, but I would... I mean, like, it's a good slice, but, uh- Yeah
it's more just for show and for humor. Right, right, right. You know? Yes. I mean, it does work really well for home goods, but professional use maybe, you know, [00:04:00] like, you'll get a little less usage out of it.
Sean: Right. Right. Thank you so much.
Tyler: You know? So I'm just like, uh, listeners, like, I wanted Seany to come on the show 'cause he's a staple in New York, and he's like, you know, you are- Like, your stories and you parallel kind of a New York story in many regards, and, and especially Rockaway as well.
And I thought it would be great to have you on. I wanna promote local businesses, and you're kind of an iconic character, you know- I, I
Sean: appreciate that ... in the community. Thank you.
Tyler: Thank you. So I'm just really stoked, and, like, fuck, you're like a repository for New York City history. Like, seriously. Not suppository, repository.
Sean: Yeah. You know. Some of it's not factual maybe, but, uh, it, it's to the best of my memory, you know?
Tyler: But it is. Like, it's, it's, it's amazing. Like y- you know, you, you grew up in Rockaway, but you lived all over the city too, right? Like, you- I did ... you lived in Hell's Kitchen, you lived in Williamsburg, you lived in Sunset Park.
Like, a lot of, like, places when they [00:05:00] were kinda on the cusp also, you know- Yes ... of a lot of things.
Sean: Yeah. My, my, my good friend Kyle, that used to run Sweet Chick- Yeah ... uh, he told me that, and this probably sounds bad, he's like, "When you show up in a neighborhood, things are changing." You know? And, uh, I guess I'm always kinda searching and looking for, you know, affordability-
Tyler: Yeah
Sean: in New York.
Tyler: Aren't we all?
Sean: Yes. But also, you know, good transit, you know, getting to and from Manhattan. Yeah. I mean, that's not the case so much w- you know, with Rockaway- Yeah ... at this point, but as we talked earlier, the ferry is, is helping that along. Yeah. So yeah, I've always liked, um, just interesting, different neighborhoods, and I think, you know, New York is so vast.
There's so many places to live. Yeah. And I'm not scared to kinda take a shot on a different neighborhood.
Tyler: It's, it's great. And, like, again, listeners, like, I can't emphasize enough Go listen to his podcast, The Last Train Home. It is so fucking good. And we can curse in this show. Oh,
Sean: it's great.
Tyler: So don't, don't hold back.
But like- I won't. But really, [00:06:00] Sean, like it is, like I was just telling you, it's like a bomb listening to your voice. And it's funny, like late, recently on like my social media feeds, I've been seeing things pop up like how the New York accent is kinda going extinct. Sure. And you really embody it. Like, and it's like for someone who
I grew up in Long Island, but went to school in the city, have lived in the city for over 20 years, lived in different parts as well, and, you know, have been part of this culture and community here. And so listening to your voice share these stories just like, oh, feels nostalgic, home, and, and comforting.
Sean: Yeah. It, it's, it's actually been, you know, comforting for me to talk about these things that, that are in my, in my head and in my past. And, um, I think as you get older and you can look back further, y- life is more interesting. Mm-hmm. You know? And the stories you can tell because people can't feel the way the city used to be.
Yeah. So they need kinda the first, the people that were there-
Tyler: Yeah ...
Sean: you know, to tell the stories. And like it's almost like, [00:07:00] like you said, like historians, like you need to tell the stories of the city. And, um, you know, in terms of the, the accent, it's like, and the way I speak, it's like- ... there's no other way for me to speak.
Yeah. And Rockaway has kind of a unique one, right? You can kinda hear it. For sure. I think you can kind of hear some of the Irish brogue in there. Yeah. I think, I think it carries over, I think it carries over in Boston as well, and I think that's being in these very Irish communities. You know, my, my parents and grandparents were not from Ireland, but there's a lot of people, they, they grow up around those accents.
Yeah. And they kinda say words a certain way. And my mom grew up on the East Side of Manhattan, and they all spoke almost like what you would hear in Long Island now. Yeah. But if you're on the East Side of Manhattan now, that's gone. Totally. I mean, you, you, you won't hear it in Manhattan.
Tyler: It's, well, it's more nasally.
Sean: You know? Yes. Oh, totally.
Tyler: It's more, more nose job nasally.
Sean: Yes. You know? Yes, absolutely, yeah.
Tyler: It's, "Oh, what's that for?"
Sean: You know? It's like- Yeah, yeah, everything's a question. Yeah. A little, it's like a Seinfeld-y thing. Yeah. It's everything's a question, you know? Um, and, and a skepticism. There was always a skepticism in New York, you know?
So, uh, [00:08:00] yeah, my, my mom, you know, still w- with me, thank God. Yeah. But, uh, she still has that, you know. So when ... I, you know, I don't hear it as much. Yeah. I know it's there. But with like friends that come from different parts of the country or whatever, they're like, "Oh my God, your mom and you, the way you guys speak."
And my sister too, you know?
Tyler: It, it's also like, I feel like Ro- parts of Rockaway i- is one of the last, like, kinda blue collar bastions. Mm-hmm. I mean, it, it, obviously there's lots of blue, obviously blue collar places in New York, but like it's- It's been able to retain, uh, its old feel, you know? Yeah. Like there's a lot of generational people who, uh, grew up there and then still live there, whereas you don't get that as much in other parts of the city because everyone's been priced out-
Sean: Yeah, and, and-
for the most
Tyler: part ...
Sean: and I think the big difference is, like we see people come and go.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You know, you go through a few winters in Rockaway, like you go out, you know, this is a surfing podcast. People come out, they surf, they're excited, "I can't believe I can take the train- Mm-hmm ... and the ferry. I can [00:09:00] drive out there during the week.
Maybe I can surf in New York City." And it's like almost this, this running joke. And it's like, "Yeah, there's-" Yeah. "... sometimes there's really great waves." Um, and then they get really excited and they, you know, they meet a guy or a girl on the beach, and they're hanging- Yeah ... out in Connolly's and, you know.
Yeah. And then it starts out as like a summer place. "I'm gonna take a summer place." Yeah. And then they like, and then they jump two feet into the winter, and they get through a couple of winters, and they're like, "Oh boy, this is... It's challenging." Yeah. It's a challenging place. So I think that helps to keep it local, quote unquote.
You know what I mean?
Tyler: Yeah. And the people who do stay really, they fucking love it, you know? Yeah. Like-
Sean: Yeah ...
Tyler: uh, and honestly, like, you know, I, I grew up more like surfing Long Beach as a kid.
Sean: Right.
Tyler: And then, uh, when I started going to school around '99, out in Rockaway all the time, and, you know, and I, I don't mind the winter.
And then my wife said to me like, you know, four years ago, "Let's move to Rockaway." And I was just like, "Really?" Right. Yeah. Like, 'cause I'd been part of the community, but not living there. Right. And then finally we do, and I [00:10:00] fucking love the winters.
Sean: Yeah.
Tyler: I... You know, 'cause you get overdosed of summer. Right.
You know? It's
Sean: a lot.
Tyler: It's a
Sean: lot. There's a, there's a switch that goes on.
Tyler: And it's great because then winter you kinda like hibernate, and my wife, you know, I, I like to be antisocial a lot, you know? So it's nice in the winter. Yeah. And then summer comes around, you're like, "Okay, cool. Like I'm ready, I'm ready for people to come.
I'm ready for the vibes again." And it's like I love that circular, that, you know, the change of seasons basically.
Sean: Yeah. I mean, I don't love it as much as you. I- But also, you know, I have a five-year-old at home.
Tyler: True.
Sean: And, you know, he's so high energy, and you really wanna keep him busy the best you can- Totally
'cause kids get outta school at 2:00. I know. And it's like, well, what's gonna happen from 2:00 to 5:00- Yeah ... till dinner time? Like, what, what are we doing?
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And when we can go to the park, you know, there's a lot of great parks in Rockaway, especially up near, near the beach, near Shorefront Parkway.
Totally. It's like a total win, and his- Yeah ... friends and the scooter, and the everything's going on, and in the winter it's like we're kinda back in the [00:11:00] house. You know, you have a little of that parent guilt, like how much- Yeah ... television is too much television? I- yeah. Or like, how many times can I like crawl down on the floor and be a part of like...
Well, he actually, he, he has like a pizza stand. No way. And he's, he's an entrepreneur, and he's got a, he's got an ice cream stand in the house. That's epic. So he's always selling me stuff. You know, he's, he's overcharging too. But, um, so it's like h- you know, I'm 6'2". Yeah. And I'm like crawling around. I'm like in his tent in his room.
Oh my God. Like, why did I buy this tent? 'Cause like I'm the one that's in it at like 6:00 in the morning crawling around in here, you know? So.
Tyler: You, you, you gotta, you gotta join the, get him into pickleball and go to the indoor
Sean: pickleball club- Yeah, it's true. Yeah, yeah ... that's open,
Tyler: you know?
Sean: It's true. Yeah.
Yeah. We're, we're taking it slowly with, with, with the sports with him. We, we, he's done soccer at this point, and then, uh, he did a season of basketball where unfortunately I wound up as his, as his coach 'cause they had no coaches. Oh, no. And they just threw me in the middle of it. And I realized really early on that my kid does not wanna listen to me coach.
Tyler: No.
Sean: Which was good to- No. ... good to learn that now. So I will never coach his sports team again. Aiden, you hear that? Ever again. [00:12:00]
Tyler: So, so you, you, you grew up in Rockaway, and I would love you, for you to paint a picture of what Rockaway in the '80s and '90s were like, because I think a lot of people now don't, you know, they think it's nice and beautiful and- Mm-hmm
I remember as a kid coming to Rockaway for surf contests, and it was, like, sketchy. Yeah. I remember, like, these guys, you know, started fighting on the beach and, and it was all, like, an act while their buddy was going around stealing everyone's stuff off the blankets. Oh, yeah. You know? Like, and
Sean: I- That was once.
I did it once. No, I'm kidding. I didn't steal
Tyler: things. And I remember, like, you know, talking to, like, Peter Egan and Dylan Farrell- Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah ... and they would just tell me these stories of, like, having to, like, run from the subway to home because they would get jumped and stuff, you
Sean: know? Yeah. Y- you know, for me, I was, I was, I was pretty fortunate.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Um, w- we grew up in Dayton Towers.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Sean: And that's basically a, you know, a Mitchell-Lama building where- Yeah ... my parents grew up, you know, they lived in Manhattan, and they got an opportunity to live [00:13:00] out in Rockaway, and against my mother's will, they took it. It was e- it was either Rockaway or Stuytown.
Tyler: Oh, wow.
Sean: My mother just brought up Stuytown last week. No way. She, she's 83. She's like, "I can't believe we moved here." So, so I grew up across the street from Hamill Houses- Mm-hmm ... housing project, and I went to school in, in Bell Harbor.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: So we weren't supposed to go to that school. It was 114. Yeah. We, we, we briefly talked before we started recording about how difficult it is to be in a good school depending- Yeah
on what neighborhood you're in.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And, uh, we, we, we straight up, you know, lied about my address- Yeah ... so I can get a good education from that school. And, um, my parents, um, would either pick me up if they could or have somebody pick me up from school, but then somebody in the school kinda told my mom, like, "There's a bus that you can put him on."
And they were busing kids in from Far Rockaway. Wow. Mostly African American kids, mostly Black kids from Far Rockaway, and they had programs to bus kids in because the schools in Far Rockaway w- were bad, you know? Yeah,
Tyler: yeah.
Sean: And, um, I don't know how [00:14:00] they managed to do it, but I was like, just kinda slipped through the cracks and rode that bus home.
Wow. So my experience was very, very different than a lot of people's in Rockaway. Um, I was the, I was one of two white kids on the entire bus, and I, I, I started to understand connection, empathy- Mm-hmm ... living across the street from the project, you know? S- stuff went down. I mean- Yeah ... it, it, sh- shit goes down.
It
Tyler: still
Sean: does. Shit, shit goes down. There, there, there's gunshots off the roof that, you know-
Tyler: Yeah ...
Sean: my mom still lives across the street from there. But I really never had many issues, honestly. Like, I really didn't have a lot of issues with people growing up because, um, I wasn't scared of people.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And I learned to just have a mutual respect for people.
Mm-hmm. And I could spot danger pr- pretty, pretty, pretty quickly. Yeah. To this day, I, I can walk through any neighborhood in New York and be fine, but I can kinda know if, like, there's po- I gotta keep- ... there's some danger ...
Tyler: keep
Sean: my wits, you know? And I know, yeah, you stay calm, cross the street, what do you, you gotta do.
But, uh, yeah, it w- it was a rough and tumble neighborhood. It, it, it's, there was definitely fights- Yeah ... you [00:15:00] know? And, and, and kids punching each other for, like, no reason. Yeah. Like, for, 'cause they lived on a different block, you know? So that stuff went on, you know? Um, but I had two older brothers as well.
Tyler: I was gonna ask.
Yeah. Like, you had two older brothers also. Yeah. And, like, so that, that probably helped a little
Sean: bit. That helps a lot. Yeah, I remember going to a block party and, um, some kid was picking on me, and then some other kid was like, "Yo, his older brother's so and so." Yeah. And he backed off. Yeah. So I'm sure that kinda helped-
Tyler: Yeah
Sean: you know, to keep me, uh, a little bit safer than if I was the, the oldest, you know?
Tyler: But, like, also the old boardwalk and like- Yeah, yeah ... you know, the, the amenity, there were amenities there, too. Mm-hmm. You know, that were different, you know? And-
Sean: Playland.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: We had, we had Playland. Like, my, my father worked in, in Manhattan.
Tyler: For our listeners who don't know what Playland was- Right ... can you kinda break it down a little
Sean: bit? So yeah, Rockaway Playland was an amusement park. Um, it was early in Rockaway. I don't kn- know the year they built it. They took it down in '89.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Um, rollercoaster, I think it was the Atom Crusher. People [00:16:00] could look it up online.
Uh, they had bumper cars, which I loved, and they had all these buildings kind of around Playland with, like, Skee-Ball, which is a big thing for me, arcades, and, um- You know, that's, that, that was our joy a- as kids. So, like, my dad would come home from work, and he randomly, he'd be like, "I have tickets to Playland."
Nice. And we'd walk... We lived on 80th Street, and Playland's on 98th Street.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And, uh, we would walk up there and, uh, and, and go on the rides and play the games- Wow ... and stuff like that. And it was so special, and everyone from that era remembers the day- Yeah ... like, they took Playland down in, like, '89. It was, like, heartbreaking.
Like, kids cut school- Wow ... to go watch them, like, demolish Playland.
Tyler: Why, what was, what, do you know why they, they, they tore it down? Like-
Sean: I, it had to just be money. Yeah. I mean, it seemed like by the time they built houses, I don't know when they built all the houses that are there now. Yeah. But it seemed like many years, you know, uh, that it kind of sat vacant.
So, I don't know, 'cause Rye Playland, I feel like, is, is, is the sister, you know, company, right? Yeah. They're still active.
Tyler: Totally.
Sean: [00:17:00] Um, I don't know. I, I, I guess it was rough in there at times. Um, I don't really remember gangs so much in Rockaway. Yeah. Gang culture at that point was still a very West Coast thing.
Tyler: Totally.
Sean: Uh, there was definitely stuff going on. Um, I don't know. It had to just be money, I guess.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Yeah.
Tyler: What did, do you know, what did your parents do? I, um, I, I haven't gotten to that episode.
Sean: Yeah, yeah. So, so, so my father, when he w- w- like, when I was, like, first a, a baby-
Tyler: Yeah ...
Sean: um, he grew up in Hell's Kitchen.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Sean: And initially, he worked on, like, signs. Like, you know how you have, like, those big billboard signs? Yeah. I guess he worked for, like, a company that, like, helped to build those signs. That's awesome. Like, very specific- Yeah ... weird thing, which I have a funny story about one of his coworkers. But, um-
Tyler: Go on.
Sean: Yeah. Oh. So, so he, he, he built those signs. But, but the, but the time I was born, my dad was, like, a maintenance man and a doorman in a building on the, I think it was on the Upper West Side. Wow. 'Cause I remember going to, [00:18:00] to, to visit him there, like, and meeting his, like, coworkers. But, like, it was kind of such a mystery, too, 'cause being a kid and my dad jumping on the A train at 6:00 in the morning-
Tyler: Oh my God
Sean: on 67th Street, right? He walked, and which he got robbed at gunpoint. You know, more than once.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And getting on the train, going all the way to the Upper West Side- ... working all day, and then getting back on the train and coming all the way back to Rockaway.
Tyler: Dude, that's like a two-hour, hour and a half, two-hour commute each way.
Sean: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh. In the '80s, for sure. Oh. Yeah. Oh. So, like- In the '
Tyler: 80s on the subway- Yeah. No- ... was no picnic.
Sean: No, and there was no air. There was like, I'm sure there was no, you know, you crack the window open- No. Exactly, right? ... a little pull-down window. Um, so yeah, he, he, he, he did that, and unfortunately my dad died when I was young.
But, um, he did that, you know, and, and that's all I knew. But back before that, he was building those signs. My mother likes to tell the story, which is kind of a crazy story. My, my father grew up on the West Side. Yeah. He, he grew up around the Westies, and his dad was a longshoreman. And there was a lot of stuff going [00:19:00] on on the West Side.
My dad was born in '39. And, um, his father stayed out of trouble.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: I, I, I guess my grandfather was a longshoreman and, um, there was always kinda like people around, mafia people- Of course ... trying to, like, get you to do some work, and he, he kept his nose clean. He's like, "That's not my thing." And my father was the same way.
But, um, there was this, there was this story my mom told. They were having, having breakfast one day- Mm-hmm ... in the apartment, and, um, my father's reading the paper, and he just starts screaming out, "Little Oscar, Little Oscar." So, so my mom's like, "What? What? What?" And he's like, "Oh, I can't believe it. I can't believe it."
My mom's like, "What? What is it?" And I guess this guy he worked with, this guy used to buy my dad lunch all the time. He's like, "Tom, you have four kids. What, I- I'll get you lunch." I guess Little Oscar was going out and doing hits for the mob-
Tyler: Holy ...
Sean: after work. And, and it was in the paper, like locked up. And it's like you could stand shoulder to shoulder with somebody, and they can treat you really- Yeah
kindly and really good, and you not know anything about them. [00:20:00] But it was like a testament to, like, growing up in a really rough area. You look at Hell's Kitchen now, we kinda- Yeah. It's ano- it's another world over there. Yeah. But, uh, when my father was there, it was rough. Yeah. Like, my father u- my mother grew up on the East Side of Manhattan, right near the 59th Street Bridge, and, uh, he used to always have to stand on the corner to wait for her to come across in the crosstown bus-
Tyler: Wow
Sean: because of how violent it was at that point over there. Um, my mother's had all kinds of jobs. She worked for A&S when she was a young woman. Oh. Right? She w-
Tyler: My childhood-
Sean: Right? Right ...
Tyler: shopping
Sean: experience.
Tyler: I know. Man, geez.
Sean: Legendary.
Tyler: Serious.
Sean: Um, I think she might've worked for Bloomingdale's for a little while.
She grew up right down the block from Bloomingdale's. Yeah. And then my mom became a social worker.
Tyler: Oh, wow.
Sean: So- When my mom moved to Rockaway, she was working at what was once Peninsula Hospital. Yeah. That hospital's not there anymore. And she got a job, uh, doing, like, switchboard. And the union said that they would pay for your college.
Wow. If you went, you had a, you know, pass, you had to get a X amount of credits, and they would pay for it. [00:21:00] 1199 is the union. Hmm. And she went to put herself through college, uh, with four kids. She got her bachelor's and a master's from Adelphi and became a social worker.
Tyler: Wow.
Sean: Working full time- Wow ... with, with four kids in the house.
Tyler: And Adelphi, you know, that's out in Long Island . Yeah. It's not an easy commute,
Sean: man. And
Tyler: it's not
Sean: an easy school.
Tyler: No. No. My mom went to Adelphi as well. Mm-hmm. She was a nurse, you know- Mm-hmm ... and then became a nursing teacher there. Yep. You know, it's freaking... Damn, man.
Sean: Yeah, yeah. So they, you know, they, they, they did their best and, uh,
Tyler: y- And, and then if you don't mind me asking, like, how did your father pass?
Sean: My father died of a heart attack. Yeah.
Tyler: And you were 13,
Sean: right? 13, yeah.
Tyler: That's a fucking tough age.
Sean: It's, it's a really weird thing and, and it's something, you know, I'm happy to talk about, but, um, I'm turning 50 this year.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And my father died at 50.
Tyler: Wow.
Sean: And it's really heavy. Scary. It's fucking scary, and it's really heavy.
So, like, I've, I've done all the things, you know, going to the doctor, going to the heart doctor. Getting a CAT scan on your
Tyler: heart and
Sean: everything? Yeah. Yeah. CAT scans and sonograms. I'm gonna go back to a different doctor- Yeah ... and check in with [00:22:00] him 'cause my mother and my brother go to the same doctor in Long Island, actually.
Uh, I think it's in Mount Sinai out there. Nice. So, I mean, I don't drink, I don't smoke.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Um, you know, my father was a smoker.
Tyler: Mm-hmm. You know, he
Sean: smoked probably since he was 11. Sh- You know, it was just normal. Yeah. You know?
Tyler: Yeah. And, and, you know, growing up in the city, the air pollution at the time. Yep.
All of- Yep ... lead paint and everything else, you know, that- Totally ... you know, uh, you could throw at that, like, that, that shit, like, would do damage on you.
Sean: Absolutely. You know? I, I think about that a lot, you know, in Rockaway when I'm on the beach, and my wife and I talk about it, and just, like, breathing in that air right off the ocean-
Tyler: Serious
Sean: doesn't get any better. When that ocean breeze is coming- Ugh ... it's so clean and so pure.
Tyler: It feels so good. Like, it's so funny, like, coming into the city and, you know- That's- ... you smell it and, you know, you... And it's like, I mean, it's all, like, smells that we grew up with too, but- Right, of
Sean: course ...
Tyler: but then you go home and you, out to Rockaway particularly, and you're just like
Sean: Oh.
The air's thinner. I- I- I- [00:23:00] it's, it's, you
Tyler: can breathe. Less allergies too, you know?
Sean: Yeah.
Tyler: Wow, yeah. We don't have rats either, you know- Right. I know ... 'cause of the cat colony.
Sean: Right. Well, I love the cats. I know. Me too, man. People get all mad at the cats. Leave the cats alone. I
Tyler: love the cats. Yeah. They're better than the pack of wild dogs used- we used to have.
Sean: Dude. I was scared of dogs as a kid growing up, 'cause I went to junior high school off the peninsula- Dude ... and I used to walk to 67th Street. 13, 14 dogs would roll up on you. I mean, it was scary.
Tyler: Dude, 2005, someone got mauled by wild dogs in between, like, the 50s and 40s- Yep. Yep ... I remember, you know? Yep. It was like, and that's not that long ago.
Yeah, like
Sean: a runner. Like, it was a woman that was running, right? It was- Yeah. Yeah. That used to happen a lot. Yeah. You know, I, I think what people did i- is all these people got dogs in the '70s and '80s and stuff, and further and further.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And then they released them in Far Rockaway.
Tyler: Exactly.
Sean: You know? It's, it's like, it's really kinda like telling, like, people dump things on, on Rockaway, including the pets they don't want anymore.
Tyler: Well, especially the, the, the parts between, like, 50th- Mm-hmm ... and down to the- Mm-hmm ... 30s, you know? It was like, you [00:24:00] know, up until just a year ago, basically- Nothing ... two years ago, it's like everything just got dumped there.
Sean: Yeah. Yeah. They, they ... Right where the first part of Auburn By the Sea that they built- Yeah
across the street from the Y, those first ... This is the first house they put up. It's
Tyler: so crazy.
Sean: W- I used to go in there with my father, in those vacant lots, right? Yeah. There were wild roses in there. Yeah. My father used to go in there and with the thorns- No way ... and clip them for my mom. Oh. And clip, my dad, and then take the, the thorns off and, and bring them home.
We used to go in there, and, like, all the way down, like you say, it was just, just- Nothing ... abandoned, just nothing. Yeah. Yeah.
Tyler: If, If I were a homeless guy, I would've moved out there, actually. Yeah. Yeah. I would've ... Like, that's where I would've, like- Yeah ... set up camp, I think. No one would bother
Sean: you.
Tyler: Yeah. Yeah.
No one would bother you, and I could go, go hop in the water and rinse off at least. Yeah. You know? Fair enough.
Sean: Yeah.
Tyler: I know. I always think about that. I'm like, "If I were homeless, where would I live?" I would go someplace warmer. Well, yeah, that too, you know. If I were stuck here, I'm like- Yeah ... "Where would I set up shop?"
Sean: You know? Yeah. San Francisco.
Tyler: Well, [00:25:00] you lived in San Francisco
Sean: too. I did. I did, and the homeless people used to hug me there. And that really threw me for a loop. I remember giving a guy a dollar and he hugged me, and I wasn't used to that as a New Yorker. I'm like, "You're hugging me," like,
Tyler: wow. Personal space.
Sean: Yeah. But yeah, it's like, um, it's such a tolerant city. Yeah. You know? And, um, yeah, people are, people are pretty good, you know- ... out there, so that's why I think the, the h- the homeless, you know, choose to live there. Yeah. The ones that do, you know?
Tyler: Yeah. It's a, it's a very friendly, lovely city, and lots of drugs and good times- Right.
Right ... and hippie culture- Right ... and all that sort of stuff came out of there, you know? Right. Right. And you can escape the city pretty easily too, and get into wilderness if you wanted to. Totally. Which is nice, you know? I know,
Sean: right across the bridge right there.
Tyler: Dude, it's like boom. Yep. You're, you-
Sean: Mere words, r- right over the Golden Gate.
Tyler: Yeah. Beautiful. You know? Well, now maybe not so much anymore, but-
Sean: Yeah ...
Tyler: you know? Yeah. I m- so, like- W- with growing up in Rockaway, do you think, like, how much of that community and identity, [00:26:00] like, do you think is still intact? Do you think it's changed as, as you've gotten older and seen it? Like, what do you...
Like, how do you assess, like, uh, being, seeing it from your childhood now, Rockaway, what are your thoughts? Do you think it's, like, changed for the better? Do you feel like it's, it's, uh, lost something? And I'm curious, like, I'm always curious.
Sean: It's, i- in ways it's changed for the better.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You know? Um, you know, anytime there's, like- Higher prices on everything.
That, that's tough for people. Yeah. Like I know families that are, that are from there, born and raised there, that are having a really, really hard time- Yeah ... finding someplace to live.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And, you know, they say the sand gets in your shoes, right? It's like you, you lived there, you grew up there, it's what you know, and they wanna be there, and there's nothing quite like it.
Yeah. I mean, you're not moving to a different part of New York and finding affordability really.
Tyler: No.
Sean: You know? There's not many places, and there's nothing's gonna mirror that in terms of vibe, so then people are starting to be like, well, [00:27:00] are they gonna leave the state completely, right? Yeah. So that, that, that's rough.
Yeah. I, I hate to see that part of it, but like looking where I grew up in that Mitchell-Lama building, it's like this is what we need m- more of, right?
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Um, and it's a shame that wasn't built, more of that wasn't built then. Yeah. So it, it's, it's interesting. I feel like I like a lot of the, the new people that are there, and I think Rockaway has some growing to do- Mm-hmm
in terms of like we need new ideas, we need new energy. Mm-hmm. Um, it can feel at times like very just like inward- Mm-hmm ... and, and, and selfish- Yeah ... and block people out, and it's just not how I am as a person I choose to be. I try to reason with that with people in my head and just be like, "What's going on with them that they don't want new people," and they say disparaging things about new people coming in.
It's not my heart. Yeah. It's not how I feel, but I try to understand it from their point of view within reason. [00:28:00]
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: But yeah, it's, it's, it's changed a lot. Um, I think it's mostly for the better. Like if you look at, at Shore Front Parkway and the way it is now, it's pristine.
Tyler: It's stunning.
Sean: It's clean. I- it's clean clean.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: There's tons of parks for kids. They're
Tyler: planting flowers everywhere. Everywhere. It's beautiful.
Sean: Beautiful, yeah.
Tyler: We got two bike paths.
Sean: I know.
Tyler: You know?
Sean: I know. It's, it's, it's a dream. Yeah. Like that, that, that... Having that boardwalk along the Atlantic in New York City-
Tyler: Yeah ...
Sean: there's nothing like it.
Tyler: Serious.
Sean: There's absolutely nothing like it. And, and that's the thing. P- people that live out there year-round, right? They long for more stuff to do, indoor stuff to do. It's like it can be hard for some people, but for the people that just wanna come down, you know, on a warm day, that is the attraction.
Yeah. Like being able to just walk along, you know, now that it's not a c- you know, it's a cement walk now. Yeah, yeah. It's not a boardwalk anymore.
Tyler: Promenade.
Sean: It's a promenade.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: But it's, um- People long for the old boardwalk. [00:29:00] Um, it, it happened. Oh, dude. We, we did it, but-
Tyler: Dude, fucking like the s- how many splinters you get on your
Sean: feet?
I still got them in my foot.
Tyler: Yeah, no,
Sean: exactly. I mean, they're still in the middle of it from the '80s. But, but think about, think about a person in a wheelchair.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Think about these people that, that this ac- accessibility, because that boardwalk was in rough shape. I mean- Oh my gosh ... it was like, you know, some of them were even, some of them were, were, were broken in, and it w- it was in bad shape, so.
Tyler: I mean, it, it was worse than Coney Island is now.
Sean: Yeah.
Tyler: You know? Yeah. And Coney Island is like sketchy as
Sean: all heck. I think, I think the thing- They're
Tyler: doing it now.
Sean: They're fixing it ... the thing that saved Coney Island- Yeah ... different than Rockaway, a lot of the boardwalk actually just sits on sand. Totally.
In Rockaway, there were a lot of parts of it that were elevated above sand, right? Yeah. So like when those parts broke, there's nothing underneath it.
Tyler: Exactly.
Sean: So I just try to look at the good parts of it and, and, and how it's, you know, it's accessible for more people.
Tyler: And I think it, it still maintains like- A lot of the, the, the character, the people there still [00:30:00] maintain a lot of the character.
Yeah. A lot of the, the, the kind of attitude, you know, this kinda tougher, a little bit tough, but also, like, tough love kinda thing, you know? Right. And very, like, you know, loyal. Mm-hmm. Like, a lot of loyalty amongst the community. Totally. A lot of people are, like, really, you know, always there for each other.
Yeah. Like, God, I mean, you know, obviously after Hurricane Sandy, I remember I was coordinating volunteers to go out there, and I remember just seeing everyone just support each other- Yeah ... so much, you know?
Sean: Yeah, they have each other's back.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You know? It, it has its ups and downs with that stuff, but by and large, people do have each other's back, and they, they t- they take care of each other.
Yeah. You know? And it, it's back to the thing, it's like we're, we're out here, and like, you know from being there, it's like sometimes the city kinda forgets about it, and the things that they've done in the past- Yeah ... that are kinda a little bit unforgivable.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Um, we, we remember that stuff, you know? And even now with, with certain parts that flood- Yeah
it's like you have Kook Mike [00:31:00] from Locals. Why is Kook Mike the guy that's digging out the basins? Seriously. Like, why, why does it have to be him? Yeah. Why, why isn't a city agency, like, making sure that, like, the, the water drains on 69th Street? Like, what- Yeah ... like-
Tyler: It's crazy ...
Sean: we know it's a problem.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: But they, they won't fix it,
Tyler: you know? And it's just, like, all the trash that gets into that. Right. And you're like, just put a screen mesh.
Sean: Yeah, I know. I know, dude. A mesh,
Tyler: you know? Like, really simple.
Sean: Dude.
Tyler: Simple things.
Sean: There's so many ways that if they would just talk to the people and talk to the locals, or help to e- employ people or volunteer people, that we can avoid some of these problems.
Tyler: Yeah, and th- that's like, you know, partially also, like, uh, council people and stuff like that who need to be advocating more for that and, and stop complaining about other things, you know?
Sean: I know. I know. It, it, it, it becomes, like... It's hard to focus.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You know, 'cause you even see now with Rockaway, as we're, we're getting into, like, the summer- Yeah
it's like you already start to see people, like, melting in terms of their mind. You're like, "The parking on Shore Front." I know. And I'm like, "Oh, you guys are like..." [00:32:00] "Everyone take a collective deep breath." You know, but- You know, I was walking my son to school with my wife last week- Yeah ... when it was hot. Yeah.
You know, it, it got hot that one day, and then I walked over to my concession, and it was like, it, it was like a Tuesday, and it was, like, packed. Turned out. And I wasn't, I wasn't mentally prepared to deal with all these people. 'Cause usually that walk is like, you know, there's no one around. All of a sudden there's bikes zooming around, all these people.
It, it takes a minute to adjust. Yeah, yeah. You know? It does take a minute to be like, "Oh my God, there's about to be- Something's here ... a lot of people here." You know? Like, l- let me, let me get... But you got, then you gotta pick your spots.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You gotta get out early or whatever you gotta do to run your errands.
You can't go to those supermarkets or Walgreens- Exactly ... when the ferry lets out. It's- Oh, no ... it's, you gotta know when to go. You know?
Tyler: But that's, like, a lot of places, you know? Yeah, yeah. That's the whole thing.
Sean: Yeah.
Tyler: So going back to your childhood, one of the things I, I wanted to kinda dive into, because part of your story is music.
Mm-hmm. And I feel like, you know, you were a DJ.
Sean: Mm-hmm.
Tyler: And that has been such [00:33:00] a... I feel like that's, like, uh, the, the thing that set you off almost in this direction of where you are now. Like, that's been, like, such an interesting thing, and I wanna, like, know first, like- How much music played into your childhood and growing up- A ton
and how that, how did that develop? A ton. How did you get exposed to so much? Because you're not just like, "I'm this." Right. You are an omnivore of music- Right ... and I really love and appreciate that.
Sean: I, I love music. I mean, I listened to music the whole way here. Yeah. You know, the whole way on the ferry and the walk.
I walked from-
Tyler: N- normally I do, but I've been listening to your podcast. It's so damn good that like- I
Sean: appreciate it. Um, my father sang.
Tyler: Really?
Sean: You know, y- this is old school, Hell's Kitchen over a f- you know, garbage can on fire. No way. Doo-wop, doo-wop stuff, right? No way. So he, he, he sang, and we- That's sick
we grew up with, you know, the record player in the house, and, um, him, him singing along to all that stuff, you know. Like p- some people that, you know, my age or older remember Sha Na Na and all those groups that- ... you know, all those a [00:34:00] cappella groups, right? Like, he, he was super into all that stuff. So for me growing up, I heard that a lot.
My older brother, I have two older brothers. Yeah. One that's 10 years older than me.
Tyler: Wow.
Sean: And he was influential on me in the way wh- we used to have, you know as a Long Island person, LIR, right? Yes. DRE it became. So it's like Ned's Atomic Dustbin, The Smiths. Dude,
Tyler: are you... Did you just say my favorite band in the whole- Is it?
fucking world? Is it? Dude. Dude. Ned's? I've been lis- I've been on such a Ned's kick- Dude ... lately too. People
Sean: don't even know that band now.
Tyler: I know. Fucking two bassists. Yeah. Two bassists. Yeah. You know? Legendary. I, I found, like, this YouTube video about a month ago where someone was reviewing old music, and they started reviewing Ned's.
You're like, "How have I not heard this before?" I know. Like, "This is amazing."
Sean: Yep, yep, yeah.
Tyler: Holy shit. Dude. Did we just become best friends?
Sean: Yeah, yeah, literally. That, all those bands you heard all the time on the radio, 'cause it w- it was... You know, I was growing up, it was, it was Michael Jackson, it was Madonna, it was Cyndi Lauper.
Of course. All that stuff was happening too, and then the [00:35:00] early parts of hip-hop w- were happening. I, I remember the first time I heard Slick Rick.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: I was at my friend's house. I was at Willie Friesen's house. What's up, Willie? We would listen to late night radio. It must've been 107.5. Yeah. It must've been BLS- Yeah
at that point, right? And it was late, and, um, I think his parents let us watch, like, Terminator or something. Like, I would never be allowed to watch that, right? It was, like, super violent and, and, um, and I remember hearing, like, it was, like, Lodi Dodi on the radio. Wow. And that was, like, a new thing for me, and then my, my brother was also into, like, Run-DMC, more of, like, the pop-
Tyler: Yeah
Sean: you know, rap, but also all the, the n- what we called new wave at that time. Yeah. Like, new wave rock. And, um, and then my dad was into the doo-wop, so that was, kinda sparked my doo-wop into my Motown kinda vibe.
Tyler: I was... Yeah.
Sean: And then my, my oldest brother, who, he actually spent time in prison, and he got outta jail.
He actually got outta jail in '89, and it was like a, a, it was like a, a lightning bolt [00:36:00] hit, hit the house.
Tyler: Wow.
Sean: Because this guy came home that was incarcerated, and I hadn't seen since, since I was young, kid. Wow. And now I'm really impressionable, and I remember this, and I was telling my wife this recently.
We was... He, he got home from prison. We're sitting at the kitchen table, and he's in the bedroom, my brother Tom, and he's blasting KRS-One.
Tyler: No way. "
Sean: Criminal mind, you..." And it's just blaring through the s- And my dad and my mom are looking at each other, and my mom's starting to get elevated. I'm f- I'm a kid.
I'm 13, right? I'm, like, 12 maybe. Yeah. I'm gonna be 13. I mean, yeah, 'cause he got home in August. I turned 13 in, in September. Wow. And I looked at my mom, and I looked at my dad, and my dad just shook his head, like, "Leave him be."
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And that made such an impression on me, because it was like, it was the opposite of anything my dad would listen to.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You know? And it was like, "Oh, this, this really kinda stirs the pot."
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: This is rebel music. Yeah. This is, this is punk rock, right? Totally. It's, it's like the same kinda thing. And, and I love lyrics, so [00:37:00] for me it was, like, that clear lyric, and also a story that I wasn't necessarily a part of. So that, the hip hop thing was, like, fully turned up from that, from that moment.
Tyler: Wow. Did, how did your... How, I g- I'm s- I gotta ask, how was your brother's adjustment back then?
Sean: It was rough. I mean- Yeah, it, it was really hard, because Man, he's 13 y- my brother's passed a few, few years ago now, but he's, he's 13 years older than me. And like, when I look back at like how, how talented he was, like both my brothers as swimmers were phenomenal.
Really? Both of them phenomenal. And, uh, I was not phenomenal. And, uh, snowboarding- Yeah ... like Tom, my, my brother Mark's a great snowboarder too. Yeah. But Tom was like, everything was 100 miles per hour. No fear. Like he didn't have a snowboard, he had a racing board. Before anyone- Wow ... was riding racing boards, right?
Like with a flat back.
Tyler: The ASIM style. Dude, this- Hard, hard bindings and everything.
Sean: Hard boots. So when he got out of, when he got out- Yeah ... I remember him jumping in the pool. We lived in Dayton Tower- Yeah ... where my mom still is. I remember him jumping in [00:38:00] the pool fresh out of prison and doing like butterfly.
Wow. I couldn't believe how, how, how amazing a swimmer this guy was. I'm like, "Oh my God." He was just such a bull, this dude. And um, yeah, his adjustment was hard. He, he wound up getting a job and working on the side of buildings. Uh, he actually worked on the side of the Empire State Building for a little while.
Whoa. He had no fear.
Tyler: So he's just high up. Dude, that's
Sean: crazy. No fear. I'm like so the opposite of that. Like, it's like I c- I'm not like afraid of heights, but I am not going on a scaffold on the side of a five-foot building. He's on the side of the Em- because they did all the-
Tyler: I can guarantee the safety precautions were not nearly
Sean: what they were now.
No, in '89? No. And uh, I think he, I think he had fun. He did, he did a lot of cool shit. Like he lived up in Hunter Mountain. Nice. He was like a popular bartender. He worked out in the Hamptons as a popular bartender. He knew everyone. He's a handsome guy. I'm sure he, you know, he was having a good time. Yeah. Um, but it was hard.
You know, he, he, he, he had a hard life and he was an addict and, and you know, I think it's different the way we look at, you know, people now and it's like [00:39:00] there were always those people then-
Tyler: Yeah ...
Sean: that knew like this is like a disease. Yeah. This is like a sickness. But it was more just like the, the-
Tyler: Well, we're coming off war on drugs.
I know. You know? I know. And the, the lack of empathy towards people- Yep ... who were addicted. Yep. You know, we were com- that was a period where you're a criminal if you're addicted. Yep. Instead of- You're
Sean: a bad person.
Tyler: Yeah, exactly.
Sean: It's just, you're just a bad person and it's like- You know, going through my own struggles with, with addiction and then- Yeah
like I, and also learning from him.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Sean: And seeing, like, and I do that with everyone in my life to a certain extent, and I, you know, but I'm like, "Oh, I don't wanna do that."
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Like, I see career paths, I see things, and I'm like, "Oh, I need to, I need to learn that lesson that they didn't learn in time."
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You know? So, uh, yeah, it, it, it was a wild adjustment for him, but, um, it, it was interesting to have him home because it, it created a new perspective. So me and him, you know, I lived, I lived up the street on, down on 49th Street here, and I remember he would come to Manhattan and we'd go listen to the blues together.
Uh-huh. Whereas, like, no one else in my family was gonna do that with [00:40:00] me. Yeah. It was only him. Like, he put me onto John Lee Hooker. Wow. So I had all these different people pulling at me from different directions and just kinda listening. It's music. And rap, if you get really into rap, and some people just dislike it for whatever their reasons are, but when you really get into it and you really listen to the, where the records came from and where they originated from and the sampling, and a lot of the guys like Clyde Stubblefield, you know, that played with James Brown- Mm-hmm
and all these guys went on to have a second career- Yeah ... because these hip hop heads wanted to use them in sessions- They sampled, exactly ... but also sampling, and then it also pe- they started to re-release a lot of their records- Exactly ... and tour again- Yeah ... because that was the record from this other popular group- Mm-hmm
that, that sampled it. So, uh, I learned a lot, you know, a lot, a lot about music from, from samples and hip hop.
Tyler: Wow.
Sean: Yeah.
Tyler: That's, it's a, uh, one of the things that I, I, if I could go back in time, is I would tell a younger me, like I was, I was all into fucking [00:41:00] Grateful Dead and hippie shit- Yeah, yeah ... you know?
That's cool. And I loved indie music too- Yeah ... but I did not embrace hip hop as much. And looking back now, I'm like, "Oh, I wish I did." Yeah. 'Cause I missed out on such a cool period and cool experiences in New York. Yeah. You know, because there was so much happening in New York in that scene-
Sean: Totally
Tyler: throughout the '90s. Oh, I
Sean: saw so many people.
Tyler: And you must have, like, experienced so much.
Sean: So much. I mean, I, I, I used to ride the A train, um, by myself and go to Tramps. Tramps was a club down on, like, 23rd, and go see, you know, Brand Nubian and- Wow ... I've seen, you know, A Tribe Called Quest and Gang Starr and Dead Prez.
Like, on my own.
Tyler: Wow.
Sean: Just be in there alone, because I knew guys, the Rockaway guys weren't necessarily, like- No. ... taking the train with me and coming all the way out. But, like, my parents live in Manhattan, and me coming to, you know, visit my grandparents as a kid, it, it took away that fear- Yeah ... of the unknown, 'cause it's like, "Oh, I, I've been going to Manhattan since I'm a kid."
So it was, like, easy for me to just, like, come, jump on [00:42:00] the train, you know? Just, just, just ride on the train and go see, go see one of these leg... You know, Nice & Smooth- Yeah ... and all these legendary rap groups back then.
Tyler: When did you start to experiment with making music then? 'Cause you, you, you went to the Scratch Academy.
Sean: Yeah.
Tyler: You know?
Sean: So I, I never actually produced any music. Yeah. I just learned how to DJ. I was interested in it.
Tyler: That's still producing music,
Sean: man. Yeah. I mean,
Tyler: it's- I, I mean, it, it, it is to a certain
Sean: extent. When, when, when... I think when you are blending records- Yeah ... and there's an understanding, you know, maybe you don't know the key, but there's a certain, there's a tempo, there's a pitch, there's a, there's a feeling there.
It's musical, for sure.
Tyler: You, you talk beautifully in one of your episodes about beats per minute. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. You know? And how yours is, like, 95 beats per minute. Yeah. That's, like, your sweet spot. Sweet, sweet spot. Right? Yeah.
Sean: It's, it's the
Tyler: zone. Yeah. And, and I love how you, you articulate that and, like- That's you make...
Yo, fuck, man. Give yourself some credit. Yeah, appreciate it.
Sean: Appreciate it. It's, um, you know, back then, like, looking at DJs, it's like, "Oh, I wanna be a [00:43:00] turntablist."
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You know, because just watching that, that spectacle, right? And then, um, I was r- like looking through Source m- Source Magazine, right, at the time, and they'd put out an...
They had an ad in the magazine for, for Scratch Academy. And
Tyler: how old were you about this time?
Sean: Oh my gosh, how old was I? I was, like, 23 or something, I think.
Tyler: And you were doing sales in the city for, like, a copier-
Sean: Yeah ...
Tyler: or something?
Sean: Yeah. I lived, I lived down the street over here on 49th Street, and I had some friends that went to, to Manhattan College.
And, and I knew everyone up there, 'cause I used to hang out at Manhattan College all the time. I was, like, an adopted Manhattan College kid that didn't go there. Yeah. And, um, I guess I made an impression on some people and they were like, "Oh, you know, what, what, what's Sean doing?" Like, "Where's he at right now?"
Yeah. And I think I just moved from, uh, at that time from Rockaway to Bay Ridge briefly. Wow. You know, my first time le- leaving Rockaway. Yeah, I was, like, 20- just 22. I remember having, like, uh, my 22nd birthday and being like, "I need to go."
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And, [00:44:00] um, and I got a job doing sales. Like, it was a, it was a copy company called Skyline Duplication.
It was started by some guys that, um, they were paralegals for, for a firm right up the block.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Sean: Um, I think it was, like, uh, Pitney Bowes or something they worked for. And basically, this one guy was a paralegal, and he started sending work out to a local copy company, realized how profitable this could be, rented an office down the street over here- Wow
hired one guy, and started sending himself the work. Wow. Right? This brilliant guy. And then he needed, like, sales guys, like young men, because most of the paralegals were young women.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: So, like, we had an easy in to have a conversation. Mm-hmm. You know, go to a Knicks game or to dinner, and it just g- the company grew.
So that's how I wound up in, in sales. That's insane. It was crazy. And we lived in Manhattan. Uh, you know, it was really fun, but, like, my heart wasn't in it. Like, it just... It, it wasn't all about growing up, going up that ladder in that company and making money. I was kinda like- You're, you're- ... whatever about [00:45:00] it
Tyler: early 20s, man. Yeah. Like, you're just like, "Give me some money. Let me
Sean: have
Tyler: fun."
Sean: Yeah. I wanna have fun. You know? Yeah. And then, um- And then basically, yeah, that Scratch Academy had like, um, they'd taken an ad out in The Source, and I think at that point I'd just moved to Williamsburg.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Right? And that was, uh, that was 2002 I moved to Williamsburg, and I had a friend who was a rapper.
Tyler: And, uh- One of my favorite times of- Right? Right ... of Williamsburg. My, my cousin lived on- Dudes ... North Fifth and Kent.
Sean: Oh, yeah.
Tyler: Oh, yeah. And-
Sean: The heart of it ...
Tyler: and he was a DJ. Mm-hmm. And all their, all their roommates were DJs. And one of my buddies who, who, who I still see all, all the time, who owns Fine & Raw Chocolate- Mm-hmm
Daniel, still lives in the fucking building. Yep. You know? Yep. Still lives in the same apartment, you know? Which is amazing. Leg-
Sean: leg- legendary times over there. Yeah. I mean, what a change it's been over there.
Tyler: Seriously.
Sean: But, uh, yeah, I, I just... I started going to Scratch Academy. Jam Master Jay had founded it.
How sick is that? I got to meet him. I got to be friends with his son now.
Tyler: No way.
Sean: Uh, by happenstance. Yeah. Uh, TJ Mizell. TJ Mizell is the tour DJ for Kid [00:46:00] Laroi. Kid Laroi's a major pop act right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He used to be the tour DJ for A$AP Ferg. But he's, like, my boy. Like, we, um, we met 'cause I was DJing a gig for Scratch Academy in the city, and I was waiting for equipment, and this kid shows up and I'm talking to him and chatting, and Jay-Z had just dropped the Dr- Blueprint 3.
No way. So we started talking about music, and then I'm like, "How did you get involved with Scratch Academy?" He's like, "Oh, my dad." And I was like, "Your dad's Jam Master Jay?" 'Cause he looks just like him. He's like, "Yeah." And he's such a good kid. Yo, he posted a video the other night, forget where he was, but it was someplace where his dad had played, and he's there with Kid Laroi.
Wow. And his dad's like a p- his picture's, like, in the green room. I just got goosebumps. But dude, but he's such a g- He, uh, I think he... I don't know if he's a surfer. He's a sick skater and a sick snowboarder.
Tyler: Nice.
Sean: And he's a great kid. He's a great... He lives in g- he lives in LA. TJ Mizell, if you look him up.
He's, he's a man.
Tyler: Dude.
Sean: The man.
Tyler: That's sick.
Sean: Yeah,
Tyler: yeah. I mean, that... And then, like, what was that school like? Like, what was that like? What was, like, the program? 'Cause it was, you were working full time and [00:47:00] then- Mm-hmm ... going to that as well.
Sean: Yeah. Basically, it was on the weekends. It was, like, right below Canal Street, uh, like West Broadway or something.
And I remember you go up a couple stairs, and, like, just those big old school Soho lofts, you know? Yeah. Oh. And they take... It was sick. And they took over, like, a floor. And each week was a different instructor, you know, that would come in and, um, they would basically li- you'd be in a circle, all the turntables facing each other, or you can partner up with somebody, and they had all these records there, vinyl.
Wow. And they would teach you the beginning steps of a counting beats. One, two, three, four, you know. Teach
Tyler: you, like, crayon marks and stuff like that on the-
Sean: Yeah. Well, they, they would tape, you can tape the labels. Tape 'em, yeah. And you get the little stickers and stuff like that. And, you know, I quickly went from wanting to be a turntablist to really wanting to blend records.
Mm. I didn't know that was gonna be what I really, was my, kind of the art for me, is blending them. And I, I, I, when I-
Tyler: Explain what that is exactly for
Sean: the listeners. It's really, it's really matching that, that tempo. Yeah. Right? Like, you're matching the tempo and, like, [00:48:00] you know, most- Popular music will, will, will land on a two and a four beat.
That downbeat's a two and a four. So the two and a four is like, it's gonna be like a kick drum, right? Mm-hmm. Like a downbeat, and that's really where you wanna land the record you're, you're playing, is, is playing, and then the one you're, you're leading in with. So that's why when DJs have headphones on, they're listening to the one they're queuing.
Mm-hmm. And they're, they're, they're getting ready to bring that next one in, and you wanna have this seamless thing. So it, it's for dancers. So when people are dancing, they're dancing, their feet are on the beat. But if you notice a DJ that, what they call train wreck transitions, right? That's the terminology.
If you notice that, like, people, like, stop dancing, it's, they're train wrecking. Like, it... Real dancers-- And they'll come tell you.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Real-- Like, I used to DJ, and all these B-boys used to come.
Tyler: Because you
Sean: fucked up the flow. And if I was... Or salsa dancers.
Tyler: Oh my gosh.
Sean: They don't play around. No. Because they're on beat.
It's like they'll come to you- Yeah ... and they'll, they'll chew you out.
Tyler: Wow.
Sean: They'll be like, "Yo, you're off, bro." Have
Tyler: you ever been chewed out?
Sean: Oh, yeah, yeah. I've had a lot of people say a lot [00:49:00] of crazy shit to me when I was DJing. Especially as a white guy that likes a lot, a lot, I like a lot of rap. I love salsa music.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: I love Afrobeat. I, I used to play a, a, a Bhangra party. And I've had people looking at me, like Southeast Asian people, Indian people looking at me being like white boy, how do you even know this song? And, and, but, you know, I had respect for it, and I, I knew what I liked. And, uh, you know, they, they, they, y- they warm to you.
You know, o- old school Puerto Rican women looking at me like I was crazy playing salsa records. Like, "You weren't even alive when this Fania record was out." I'm like, "But I love it, and you love it, so we have a, we have a connection here, right?" Yeah. So, uh, yeah, people in New York would chew you out. I did a reggae night, guys used to chew me out.
Hard.
Tyler: Leopard Lounge?
Sean: No, I played on, I played Bembe.
Tyler: Wow. Oh, I remember. Ah. That was, my buddy John Bless used to- Yeah ... DJ there.
Sean: Yeah. Yeah. He's a legend. Dude. Yeah, he's a legend.
Tyler: Oh, I know. Yeah. And he makes fucking insane sound systems too.
Sean: Yeah, I know. I know, I know. Still. If I had money, I'd buy one. I know, right?
The [00:50:00] cabinetry that guy makes, and he makes them for, like, Stretch Armstrong- Yeah ... and all those guys. Yeah, he, I follow him online. He, we don't know each other, but we got, like, mutual buddies, including you now.
Tyler: He, he, he used to always, like, uh, when I did Surf Film Festival, I'd be like, "Yo, can you DJ?" And he'd be like, "DJ 50 bucks," you know?
Mm-hmm. And, like, bring his sound system- Yeah ... and everything. Like, fucking- Dude's a legend.
Sean: Well,
Tyler: it- Sweetest guy ...
Sean: it's funny you bring up John, 'cause he, 'cause this is actually tied together randomly. John used to play with Chad Dubz-
Tyler: Mm-hmm ...
Sean: right, at Bembe every Tuesday, Tough Tuesday. Yep,
Tyler: Tough Tuesdays. I remember.
Sean: Chad Dubz had it out with the owner- No way. ... of Bembe, Dan, who I knew. Doesn't own it anymore. Dan lives in- Yeah ... in LA now, uh, California. And they had it out. Whatever. I wasn't between any of it. And Dan hit me. He's like, "Yo, can you, can you come and, and play reggae?" And I told him straight out, I was like, "That's not my thing."
Yeah. I'm like, "Those guys are really about that life." Serious. Like, I can come play. And the, the gig paid, like, 200 bucks. When I tell you that I lost money on that gig- It was a Tuesday gig. I lost money on that gig [00:51:00] because all, all the guys that would come, and they'd already built the following up. Yeah, yeah.
They already had the night. Yeah. So now I'm coming in, and I'm not- Oh, that's pressure. ... I, I'm not... Like, Chad and John really are serious about that music. That wasn't my thing. I love reggae, but- Yeah ... they, they're knowledgeable. Yeah. And I told Dan, I'm like, "I'm not them."
Tyler: You can't fake that shit. No. That is such a community too.
It is so-- My friend, uh- They roasted me ... John Schultz, Dubstar, like he- Yeah ... he and his, his, his wife, like they, they... That is such a community.
Sean: It's serious. Yeah. I, I know a couple guys in that scene. They, they... But dude, I was going to Deadly Dragon Sound in, in, in, in, in the city to grab 45s every week. You can't, people can't understand how much music comes out of Jamaica- Yeah
in a week. More than any place in the world, hands down. Yeah. Forget about the streaming era and all this stuff. Mm-hmm. They put out, you know, what they refer to as a riddim, and 20 guys jump on that riddim.
Tyler: Totally.
Sean: And basically what the real fans want you to do, then at least- Is they want you to play that rhythm, but use all the [00:52:00] different, whether it's Bougie Bantana or whoever jumped on it that week- Yeah
and kinda roll it and then rewind it. It, it's a cultural thing. And like I had these Jamaican guys like roasting me in there one night. They were cool with me- Yeah ... but they were, they were tough on me. And they're like, "No, you gotta do this and you gotta do that." And like, they're right. Yeah. You know? And I held it down for a little while, and I think somebody else might've taken it over.
But, uh, yeah. It's, it's, it's, that's a different kind of DJing.
Tyler: But do you know what? Like, those experiences, like, teach you respect and humbling. And, and I feel like that's what has been kinda setting you up for success in many other areas, is because you learn, like, I don't know shit. And I may think I know, but I don't know.
And there's so many people today who can watch a YouTube video and then all of a sudden think they know everything, you know? And it's like, nah, nah, man. Like, you gotta put in your time. You gotta experience
Sean: it, yeah. You
Tyler: gotta experience
Sean: it. It, it's like, um, I think about that, that, um, like in Good Will Hunting.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: That scene, right? And, um, he's talking to Matt Damon, and he says, [00:53:00] um... He, he's talking about, like, you can't... Y- you can read a book about the Sistine Chapel, but you don't know what it smells and the... Exactly. And, and it, it, it's like the life experience. And that's like coming into the studio today, right?
We could've recorded this someplace else, right, that was more convenient.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: But it's like life is an experience, you know? And it's like whatever happens on the way to the studio, in the studio, and then on the way back home from the studio is life. Yeah. And like you can't, you can't abbreviate life. You can't wa- you can't experience it through YouTube.
Tyler: Exactly.
Sean: And, and peop- And I think young people are st- gonna start getting that soon, that they have to go out there and experience it for themselves- Mm-hmm ... and make their own things. But yeah, it's like people in New York will straight up call you a phony.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You know? They, they'll, they'll, they'll pull your card hard, and we need it.
We do. You
Tyler: kinda need it. We used to call people fucking posers. Yeah. Right? Yep. Like, like surfing, you used to be like, if you didn't know your shit- Yep ... you were a fucking poser- Yep ... if you dressed up- Yep ... a certain way. Skating- Yep ... snowboarding, all of those things. And now it's like we've, we've kinda acquiesce that.
Yeah. You know? And like we just, I mean, in, in [00:54:00] some ways it's great that we can allow people and, you know, I don't wanna be a gatekeeper. Right. But I want people to understand the history. I want them to experience the things we experienced because those are like rites of passages almost. It
Sean: makes life more interesting.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You know, walking around- Better story too ... pre- yeah, pretending like you're into something or, or do something and without learning about it is just a waste. It is. It, it's, it's meaningless. You know, you have no s- you know, connection to it. There's no soul to it. It's like, you know, it takes time to, to, to get...
You know, I, I think with DJing it happened like that a lot in New York where people just wanted to get put on.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Sean: And it's just pay dues. Yeah. I mean, it's just, you, you gotta, you gotta pay your dues and you gotta, you gotta just... You know, I was talking to a friend today, Danny Collins, who, who DJs out in
Tyler: Rockwell.
Love my, love my boy Danny.
Sean: Legend. Yeah, yeah. I told him I was coming on the podcast. He, he, he... And like he's the kind of person, we, and we all, we was talking this morning at Brothers, and he, we, we just like, if you can't get put on, if you wanna do a t- type of party, do it [00:55:00] yourself. Yeah. No matter where it is, you gotta figure it out for yourself or build it in the background and then present it, because w- when you're waiting for someone to put you on for anything- Yeah
you're just, you're wasting your time.
Tyler: You gotta earn it.
Sean: Yeah.
Tyler: Curious thoughts, just sidebar. What do you think of Girl Talk and that blending of music? I- Do you listen
Sean: to Girl Talk? I don't listen to it,
Tyler: no. Oh. I just thought about it 'cause you like kinda blend stuff- What, what, what, what- ... and it's like he'll take fucking like- You know, you know, a classic song like, uh, "Tiny Dancer"- Okay
and blend it with hip-hop beat- Oh, yeah ... and, like, but then it, like, switches abruptly in some ways, but keeping the beat.
Sean: Yeah.
Tyler: And I don't know, I was just curious, like.
Sean: Yeah, it's like we used to call that, like, uh, the kitchen sink DJing. Exactly. You know? Like, that was like every... Like, my, my buddy, I was telling Dan this morning, one of my buddies is DJ Monk One.
Uh, he's an incredible DJ. He, he's super smart. He used to write for Wax Poetics for- Yeah ... a long time. And, uh, he said the funniest thing to me one day. We were gonna do a gig together. Yeah. 'Cause he's, he wants to do a gig. Is it gonna be salsa? Is it gonna be old school hip-hop or whatever it's [00:56:00] gonna be- Yeah
you know? And he goes, "What are we gonna do, play Serato?" You know, and that's the joke. Yeah. It's like, are we just gonna open up a laptop to 50,000 songs- Exactly ... and just play whatever? And that's fine. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like without intention, it's like with anything you do, it's like you're trying to, you're trying to grab as many people as possible, but there's no focus on it, and it's like people don't gravitate toward that stuff.
Tyler: Exactly. I... And then I'm curious then, like, you know, like you, you started like, you know, kind of DJing at Black Betty- Mm-hmm ... which, you know, you go into depth in your podcast. So listeners, I recommend you listen to that particular episode. It's amazing. But, like, that kind of opened the door for you to being like, "I can make money doing this."
Sure. "I could almost make a career out of this." Yeah. But I'm curious, like, how you went from that, but you ended up, like, managing a lot of people- Yeah ... and managing tours and, like, how did... how was that transition and how, how'd you learn the skillsets for the managing? What did you-
Sean: I don't know if I learned them.[00:57:00]
Tyler: Clearly you did- Um- ... because it parlayed into many other things.
Sean: Yeah. I think, um, so basically what, what, what the, the guys I, I, I respected at Black Betty- Yeah ... they were really serious. When I got to Black Betty, uh, the lineup was, was amazing. So Monk One w- was on Thursday nights, um, and this guy M-Ski and this guy G-Man, rest in peace, who was like the emcee for the night, like in the, in the old school sense.
Like, "Yo, welcome everybody." Yeah. You know, like, and he became m- my emcee later. Um, but watching them and how they played blew my mind. And you had Black Pearl, who was a great DJ, and then you had Reverend Vince, who plays at Union Pool now. Yeah. And he had the Monday night thing, and Greg Kaz had the Brazilian beat thing.
So it was a, it was like this space where all these talented people were there. And to envision yourself in that was difficult because I was a beginner, I was just starting out, but I did get an opportunity. And when I got that opportunity, it just created a lot of, um, confidence in me.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Because you start to see people moving and dancing and, "Oh, I like the way you DJ."
Pe- [00:58:00] people talk to the DJ- Yeah ... you know? Especially in that scene. So we would have all those Williamsburg people at that time, the Daptone guys and- It was a magical time, man ... TB on the Radio guys. I know. They were all there, like, hanging and dancing. So you knew that a mile from Ante Bellum was dancing, who's, who's lucky for me is my friend now.
It's like- Oh, like these guys are in the know beyond the pop know. Mm-hmm. These guys are real musicians. They, they, they're into deeper music, and they're, they're having a good time. So they kinda set that, that standard and they give you that confidence to play, go a little deeper in what you're playing.
Yeah. Um, yeah, that was a big... That Black Betty still is like a, a big moment i- in life. And, um, that's how I met the band that I work for, The Pimps of Joytime. Yeah. They had a residency there, and, uh, their n- their original album i- is just absolutely incredible to this day for me, their first album. And, um, they invited me to go to New Orleans.
Tyler: Wow.
Sean: And they wanted somebody who was right... It was the first Jazz Fest after Katrina.
Tyler: Oh. [00:59:00]
Sean: Right? Wow. And they were like, "Come down to New Orleans. We'll pay you." Oh, shit. And I, I worked the door on that. I DJ'd. I p- you know, put out fires with all kinds of crazy stuff going on. And, um, that kinda just... It just kind of was like, "Let's just do it," kinda thing, you know?
And when somebody, I think, takes an interest in you or thinks that you do, can do something you've never done-
Tyler: Mm-hmm ...
Sean: you should take that and run with that, right? That's anything in life. It's like, you know what? It's like, if someone s- thinks that you can do it, then go for it.
Tyler: Yeah. '
Sean: Cause they're showing you that, that they believe in you, you know?
And I think everyone kinda needs that.
Tyler: Fuck yeah. Yeah. That, that is like probably one of the most important things, uh, messages you can tell someone, I think. I'm getting all verklempt about this. Yeah, I know. You know? It's, it's, it- It's like- It's important ... because it's like when someone shows that confidence in you, whether it's a friend, uh, a partner, uh, you know, a family member- Mm-hmm
uh, you, you should run with it. Yep. You should run with it. If someone says they think you can do it, and you [01:00:00] trust that person, fucking run with it.
Sean: Yep.
Tyler: You know, 'cause you don't know, otherwise it's a lost opportunity.
Sean: Yeah. It's, it's, it's... If, if in that moment, if you're willing to do that thing, then, then you're about it.
If you're not, just keep moving, because people talk about a lot of things. Yeah. But you gotta get on the ledge, and, you know, that's why I like DJing, because it put me on the ledge.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: It was like I can't hide, the music's out loud. Mm-hmm. You hear it. If this blend sucks, you're all gonna know it. If this song is just not your thing, then we're in a different space.
It's like you're, you're out there. Yeah. It's not behind closed doors. So I kinda needed that. I kinda need that, you know, to be in front of people.
Tyler: Yeah. You
Sean: know?
Tyler: It... But then how did that evolve into the managing part? That's like what I'm most
Sean: curious. Well, a- yeah. After we, after we did New Orleans, um, they were going on some...
No, after they did New Orleans, I had, I had moved to, to California.
Tyler: Wow.
Sean: And I was really unhappy. [01:01:00]
Tyler: Why did you move to California?
Sean: Because the Bhangra party that I was playing- Yeah ... I used to play Basement Bhangra- Mm-hmm ... with DJ Rekha, who's like the most famous Bhangra DJ, and Bhangra had like a moment.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You remember like in the '90s- Yes ... Punjabi MC. Yeah, totally. Jay-Z jumped on that. There was a moment there. Wyclef, like Wyclef helped- Mm-hmm ... was on her, her album, Rekha. So this other party in San Francisco, they'd heard about me playing with her, so they couldn't get her. They asked me to come out and play, and then I just...
I was going out there for a lot of gigs all the time. Wow. Like doing these Afrobeat gigs and, you know, house gigs and all this stuff. And, um, I, I had an opportunity to play with them on the regular. They had a residency, and then they were playing like museums and festivals, and I thought it was gonna grow to this thing where I was gonna be traveling around with these guys as one of the DJs.
Yeah. And it just didn't work out for a lot of reasons. And I was in, I was in, I was in San Francisco and I was walking down Geary, if anyone's familiar with San Francisco. I was walking down Geary. I live right by Geary, and I was walking to the bank- And I remember texting Brian J, the, the, the leader of The [01:02:00] Pimps of Joytime, and I was listening to his album, and I'm like, "Hey, just thinking about you.
Hope you're well. Listening to the album." And he's like, "Can I call you?"
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: I'm like, "Yeah." So he called me, he's like, "Yo," he's like, "I want you to tour manage us." And I was like, "Oh, I, I'm, I'm actually moving back to New York." He's like, "It doesn't matter where you live. You just gotta meet us." Yeah. And I was like, "Well, I'm actually moving back to New York."
And I moved back, and within days I had jumped in a van with these guys and started tour managing them.
Tyler: Wow.
Sean: And then we just learned as we went. It's like, you advancing the tour, and making sure the hotels are booked, and flights, and mapping out where we're driving, and...
Tyler: 300 green M&M's at every- Dude ... you know, making sure the rider had- Yeah
everything they needed.
Sean: Yeah. Good luck when, good luck when you're like an up and coming band getting a rider fill- I spoke about that on my podcast about this, because people, people get all the, you know, they think they've made it, and they fill out these riders, and it's like, oh yeah, that's coming out of your bottom line.
Yeah. So when you get a settlement at the end of the night after you pay the door and paid the house nut, all of a sudden it's like, oh yeah, by the way, all those little things you wanted, you're [01:03:00] paying for those. They
Tyler: wanted 300 green M&M's or else Ozzy wouldn't go on.
Sean: Exactly, yeah. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta be careful what you ask for.
But, uh, it was a wild experience. I, I got to see most of the country. That was the biggest thing for me. I got to see... I got to have the experience and see most of the United States, you know, I'm probably like five or six states shy of the whole thing- Yeah ... um, in a van.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: In a 15-passenger van. And the first, the first- Fucking
Tyler: hot box van
Sean: Bro, the first-
few tours we had no, we had no trailer. Oh my gosh. And everyone was like, "We gotta get a trailer 'cause then we can put all the gear back there." Yeah. 'Cause we had the, we had like the last row taken out of the van- Oh my gosh ... so we could stick all the gear in it. So- And
Tyler: everyone's like on top
Sean: of
Tyler: each other.
Sean: Oh my God, dude.
Tyler: And it's before smart, like smartphones were really prevalent either, so you didn't have that-
Sean: Yeah, they were there. They were there- ... either ... but it wasn't like, uh... it wasn't what, what it is now. You
Tyler: didn't have all the apps and social media as much. No. It wasn't like-
Sean: No ...
Tyler: so... Like now you can just distract yourself at least.
Yeah. There you're like-
Sean: Yeah, you're locked in ... you have to
Tyler: deal with that
Sean: shit. Yeah, you're [01:04:00] listening to each other.
Tyler: Mm.
Sean: You just wanna like-
Tyler: You're like getting annoyed
Sean: with each other ... you yell at each other. Yeah. And then like you stop at like a, like a rest stop, you know, like- ... and they're like staring at like- wrappers and, and packaging and stuff.
It's, "Guys, we, we gotta get in the van. We gotta keep going." "Just come on, let's go." You know? It's just impossible. It's a, that's a rough road.
Tyler: Seriously.
Sean: It's a rough road. It, it's tough, you know?
Tyler: I, I don't think I could handle being a roadie,
Sean: you know? Not now, no way.
Tyler: It's brutal.
Sean: Mm-mm.
Tyler: You know? No. It's like,
Sean: phew.
And it's just you're on this, this cycle that's so, you know, unforgiving, you know?
Tyler: And that must have been... Would that, was that frustrating for you in some ways 'cause you didn't, you weren't getting to play as much either then,
Sean: you know? Well, yeah. The deal I made with Brian at the time is that, you know, besides whatever the m- money I was gonna be paid for it, um, I had to, they had to try to advance me as the opener for as many gigs- Yeah
as made sense. Yeah. So I did get to open, uh, some really cool gigs. Like, we, we did High Sierra [01:05:00] Festival.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And, uh, we did, like, this, they had this huge barn there, and we did this with this band called Orgone. Mm-hmm. And they're a great band out of, uh, out of LA.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: They were like, you know, Afrobeat, funk.
They had this great singer, Fanny Franklin, who, who became a good friend. And, uh, that was, like, one of those gigs where, like- Yes, I made the right decision. Yeah. Like, Black Crows I'd seen earlier in the day. Ozomatli I saw. And then, like, my band was playing. And, like, when you know your band kicks ass, and you're, like, standing in the audience, and, like, there's some people that know and some people that don't, you're, like, proud.
Yeah. Like, they were real- they're re- they still tour. They're really talented, and you, you're just waiting for it to kinda hit, and you just got, like, butterflies almost. You're like, "Yeah, these are my guys." That's awesome. You know? So, uh, yeah, it was, it was some really amazing, amazing moments and, and good opportunities, you know?
Tyler: Yeah. I love, though, like, how that kinda led, though, to, like, going to work at Brooklyn Bowl.
Sean: Yeah,
Tyler: yeah. Which is, like, another kind of moment f- you know, it's like, you know, I feel like there are [01:06:00] these, like, dots we can pinpoint along your journey, and it, and it, and it's like an evolution too. Mm-hmm. It's like scratch school, DJing, then doing, doing the tour, you know- Mm-hmm
and touring, you know, and becoming a manager. New Orleans, like, that's a pinpoint right there. Right. And it's, like, kind of a new evolution. And then you take that managing skill set and bring it into Brooklyn Bowl- Yeah ... which is, like, a really prestigious fucking, like, rigorous place to work. Like, no joke.
Yeah, yeah. Like, you don't- It's tough. It's not an easy place to work.
Sean: No, it's, it's-
Tyler: But you learn so much.
Sean: So mu- And that was something that people, they can work in other places. A- and when I was at, initially did some of my interviewing for that job- Yeah ... one of the owners is Charlie Ryan, and I remember him wanting to interview me for my second interview.
And I don't remember exactly what he said, but-
Tyler: He didn't even know you DJ'd at Brooklyn
Sean: Bowl. Y- yes, yes. He, yeah. That's what I love about it. I was like, I, I... He's like, "Where do you DJ?" I'm like, "I DJ here sometimes." And, like, you know, [01:07:00] we have commonality 'cause we like, you know, we also like New Orleans music- Yeah
brass band music. I, I'd mentioned in the podcast, my podcast, that he loves The Meters.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And, um, basically he was saying in the, in that meeting, he said, "You know," he says, "A lot of places you can work and go, but only certain places where you can really learn."
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And that stuck with me, and he was right about that.
Like, the things that I learned in the Bowl, it's a great experience. It almost made it harder in the service industry, though, because most places don't operate like that.
Tyler: Well, they, like you said in your podcast, and listeners, like, it... Again, I can't emphasize enough. I'm gonna say this throughout the show-
you'll listen to it. But, like, you talk about how they took the training model of Blue Ribbon- Sure ... and applied it there, and where you work every position- Mm-hmm ... as a manager, and you learn everything, which is- Kind of like, I feel like that's a theme in your life where you kinda, like, have to learn everything whenever you do something.
Like, you kinda go full, like, start at the bottom, work your way up kinda- Yeah ... [01:08:00] learn every aspect of something.
Sean: Yeah. It's, it's in- interesting. I think you're right. It, it... I don't know why it's like that. But yeah, that, um, that kind of training and that kind of experience, I mean, you don't see that much anymore, espec- especially in the service industry, and it was a three-month training.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You know? So you had to be really serious about that job and wanting that job, and it, it was a pivotal point. It was a turning point for me, that job.
Tyler: I think that's also, uh, like for someone who ran retail my whole life with my family business, like, I think that's great 'cause you actually... It's like a trial period, too, to see if they- Totally
this person is up to snuff- Yep ... and also humble enough to learn everything,
Sean: which- It was humbling.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: I mean, cleaning, I remember a very humbling exp- experience. There's a band you should check out. They're called the New Master Sounds.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Sean: UK guys that are like... They, like, love The Meters.
Tyler: Joe here is, like, nodding his head, our engineer.
Sean: Yeah, yeah. He's like, "I know
Tyler: those guys."
Sean: Those dudes are rad, right? So, so we, we, we know those guys from tour and from being into, you know, new funk, right? They're a funk band. And, [01:09:00] um, the lead guy w- w- wa- they, they saw me, like, at the Bowl, and he knew me from tour. He knew me from, like, running around, um, you know, with, with The Pimps and stuff like that, Pimps of Joy Time.
He knew me from New Orleans a little bit. And he said to me, he goes, he goes, "Oh, yous, like, you're training here." And I was like, "Yeah, yeah." I was like, you know, I was bussing.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And it's, like, the lowest... It's at the bottom of the totem pole, right? Yeah. No disrespect to it, but that's what it is. Yeah. You know?
It's the same way in a kitchen. It's dishwasher. Yeah. Those dishwashers come on... They, they turn into line cooks. Yeah. You know? Um, and I w- I, like, I, I, I was stressed about it. I was, like, embarrassed a little bit, and he's like, "I can tell." He, he just confronted me. He's like, "I can tell." He's like, "You're not feeling great about this right now."
He's like, "But this is a great place, and you're in good hands." And he had so much respect for the venue, um, and I, I kinda needed to hear that. Yeah. But it was, it was, like, a little bit of humble pie, and, like, you think you're hot shit, or you think you're cool, and you've been in these rooms, and I've been in the green room, too, and ha- Yeah
you know, like, it's like- [01:10:00] Yeah. But ego, man. Fucking ego. Like, it is, it is... It's not great, you know? So I, I had to really swallow my pride and my ego and just, um, and, and clean up and, like, we ... It's a funny story. We, we... There's a y- Deer Tick. There's a band called- I love Deer Tick ... Deer Tick. Okay. Yeah. So, so, so I'm bussing, right?
For my training at Brooklyn Bowl. New Year's Eve. Deer Tick does "Deervana."
Tyler: Yes.
Sean: You're right?
Tyler: I remember that.
Sean: Okay. So, so they play the one album. What's... The album's, uh Y- y- your- Never mind. In utero? Urethra? In utero. In utero, sorry. In utero. In utero. Yeah. Uh, in utero. So they decided to, like, have all these, like, feather pillows on stage-
Tyler: Yeah
Sean: and have, like, a pillow fight at the end of the show. Oh,
Tyler: shit.
Sean: There was fucking 8 million feathers everywhere in Brooklyn Bowl. And you
Tyler: have to fucking clean
Sean: that up. Dude, I had to clean it up. So-
Tyler: Sweeping
Sean: feathers is
Tyler: not easy ...
Sean: I shit you not. Dude, I went up in the mezzanine-
Tyler: Yeah ...
Sean: and they had, like, [01:11:00] like, a backpack, um, like, suction- Super
Tyler: suck va-
Sean: vacuum.
Yeah.
Tyler: Yeah, yeah.
Sean: And I came out, and the, and the staff there, the, the other- ... like, the bussers, the real bussers, and the runners, and the managers, like, "Where the hell did you get that from?" I was like, "It was in the mezzanine." I'm like, "Wrr," like- ... like, really, like, trying to clean this up. Like- Work
Tyler: smarter, not harder.
Yeah,
Sean: exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, uh, yeah, you're just, like, on your hands and knees, like, sweeping up feathers. But, uh, y- you need that stuff. I, I, I think you ne- I think, I think the world's getting away from that a little bit, you know, a little too far away from that, that tough learning period- Mm-hmm ... and that, you know, creating humility in people.
But, you know, 'cause p- I know people are very sensitive, but it's like I think you need some of that. I think you need, you know, kill your ego.
Tyler: You, you gotta, like- Well, it's... You say this in another pod- in one of your podcasts, and, and it, and it, and it kind of pertains to your pizza making, but I think it's a common theme, is like you gotta Miyagi, Mr.
Miyagi that shit. You gotta paint the fence.
Sean: Yep.
Tyler: Wax the car.
Sean: That's one of my favorite [01:12:00] movies, dude.
Tyler: Of course. And, and dude, don't get me started on Cobra Kai. Oh, my God. I fucking loved Cobra Kai. Yeah. So good. Don't get... You know? It's so good. I
Sean: couldn't believe it was back.
Tyler: I know.
Sean: I was like, "This is crazy."
Tyler: And you know what? I didn't even mean... I didn't even, I didn't even dislike the new movie. I kind of enjoyed it too. Yeah. You know? So like whatever, listeners. Yeah. Don't judge me. Fucking love that shit. But it's, it is that, that story, you know, of, of being humbled. Mm-hmm. You know, not knowing what you're learning, but you're learning something.
Right. And then realizing later on, "Oh, that was so important actually." Yeah, yeah. You know? And, and it's like North Shore, the movie with, you know, it's a surf movie from the '80s. Yeah. Oh, yeah, great movie. You know? Great movie. And Rick Kane has to learn by riding the Olo board on up. Yeah. You know? It's-
Sean: He started out in the wave pool.
Tyler: Exactly, you know. But it's like that is the way you learn something. Yeah. That is how you, you become proficient in something. You don't start at the top.
Sean: Nope.
Tyler: You start fucking scraping gum off the floor.
Sean: But yeah, [01:13:00] it's... We're, we're so not in that era right now. Yeah. Right? So like yeah, people will ride like a bigger board and stuff like that to learn, but like everyone's gotta be super decked out with all the gear- Mm-hmm
and all the stuff. And like I remember going out east, I was out, uh, with a friend of mine at Amagansett, and uh, one of our boys, uh, was from California. And like, you know, my boy had all his gear. Mm-hmm. Like I, I had a boogie board. I was like hanging out with these guys, like rash. This guy in California, he had like a, a pair of regular shorts on.
Mm-hmm. No board shorts, and like no, no rash guard. Nothing. And he's just on the board just... I'm like, we're like, "Look at him. He's just like pure." Like he just... Nothing stopped him, like-
Tyler: Simplicity ...
Sean: and it's gotten away from that. I know you can speak more to it than I could. Yeah. But it's like so much of what we do now becomes about the gear, you know, too much and not about the thing.
Tyler: We would call those people posers
Sean: back then.
Tyler: Yes, yes. You know? Yes. And now it's like, you know, it's, it's commonplace and, you know, we're also in late stage capitalism and we love [01:14:00] consumerism- Right ... and everything. Right. Right, it's true.
Sean: I
Tyler: know. So it's like we gotta buy things for our dopamine, you know?
Sean: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they gotta wait for the box to come.
Tyler: Yeah, serious. Is the
Sean: box here yet?
Tyler: Yeah. You know? I know. And it is. And it's like that is definitely, you know, we have to learn to be humbled, uh, in order to succeed. Yes. And if you persevere, that, that builds grit.
Sean: That's the key, the, the perseverance, right?
The going through it, like the, the, the rough times, the hard times in, in anything we do, it, it, it, it does make you appreciate it more. It's like you're not gonna appreciate anything if it comes easy.
Tyler: There was like, uh, something like uh, I, I think you said where like how, how you describe how you were in these moments and you wanted to quit.
But then you just have to push past it- Absolutely ... and you're better off. And like, I remember you talking about even, like, making pizzas at Brooklyn Bowl and, like, just being so deep and feeling like all this, you have all these orders and you're just like, "Fuck, how am I gonna-" [01:15:00]
Sean: Yeah ... "
Tyler: get through this?" Oh, yeah.
You know? I've, I've been in that situation- Yeah ... where I worked in my family's store, we rented skis, and I remember, like, there's a line out the fucking door, and all the employees didn't show up, and it was just me- Right ... and one other person. Right. And you're like, "How am I gonna get through this?"
Sean: Right.
Tyler: You just have to fuckin'-
Sean: Yeah, one at a time. And, and better systems come from those situations, right? Exactly. Those are the stress tests that you want i- in life and in business. It's like you need things to kinda go wrong to learn how to avoid them, right? Exactly. And to build a better business or what, what to do anything better.
So yeah, though, people don't want those things to exist, those uncomfortable moments, but they, they do shape us to be better. That's, that's humanity.
Tyler: Yeah. One of the other things I loved when you were talking about Brooklyn Bowl is how when you started, they were introducing a new point-of-sale system, and
Sean: it was just like- Oh, Positouch
Tyler: I've been through this- Brutal ... so many
Sean: times. Why? Yeah. It was, it was, it was brutal. The only positive a- part of that was it w- it was a bit of a bonding experience to [01:16:00] me and the staff, right? Yeah. 'Cause we can all... They, they all said this- You all can- ... sucked.
Tyler: Exactly. You can
Sean: all bond on that. Collectively.
You know, the, the POS system that no one knows how to use. Yeah. Like, you have all these POS systems that were popular at that time, whether it's Micros or Aloha or whatever, and you're using the one that n- I see in a restaurant once in a while- Yeah ... and I just shake my head. I'm like, "There it is."
Tyler: I wanna, I wanna just touch on, like, how you met your wife, 'cause she worked at Brooklyn
Sean: Bowl.
Yeah,
Tyler: she
Sean: did.
Tyler: Like, how did that- This is funny ... how did that come about? Yeah.
Sean: So I, I, I tell this story, but, like, um- Something about her w- struck me, you know? And I had a lot of friends at that time that were like, "You know, what, what, what is it? What is it?" Because I, I didn't think-- I don't think people viewed me as somebody that was really looking to settle down.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Sean: Uh, which was, you know, not a fair assessment.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Um, but her kindness. There was a kindness there with my wife that just, it, it, it showed up and I couldn't shake it. And [01:17:00] I remember one of the guys that worked security at the bowl, and a real cool guy, Kahori, really cool New Yorker, like- Yeah ... just rad dude.
And, um, I wasn't somebody that was looking to date anyone I worked with. Yeah. Especially in a managerial position 'cause there's, there's weirdness there and-
Tyler: What was she doing?
Sean: She was a server.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And she only worked, for the most part when I arrived there, she worked like once a week.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Because she worked at Heartland Brewery.
She worked in- Oh, wow ... in, in Union Square at Heartland Brewery. Yeah. And she worked- Rest in
Tyler: peace.
Sean: Rest in peace. And she worked at The Bell House-
Tyler: Ah ...
Sean: as well. Love The Bell House. So before my time-
Tyler: Yeah ...
Sean: at the bowl, they wanted to make her a manager. Mm-hmm. And she actually turned it down.
Tyler: Wow.
Sean: Right. So she's a great person, great employee, and I guess when you're working in that kind of setting where you have this person that's coming in once a week, consistently she worked with us on Thursdays.
She- Yeah ... she'd do Heartland in the m- 'cause they'd do lunch and stuff, well, they did lunch, and then she'd come to the bowl at like 5:00 or 6:00. So she worked a double that day.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Um, but she was always just calm, on point, [01:18:00] no BS. Like, that'll make you love somebody. Yeah. You know what I mean? As a manager, as a person that's like, you just get it.
You're here-- You're not here for BS. You're here to do your job. So that was, like, another, you know, moment where I'm like, "I really like this person." But, um, I remember Kahori being like, "If you-- I wanna ask that girl. Like, that girl is special."
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And, um, I remember one of my co-managers coming to me one day at a-- He's a character, and he goes, "Hey, Zeke, and just so you know, they're, like, talking about you in the office."
I'm like, "What do you mean talking about me in the office?" He's like, "Well, they just mentioned, like, you're kinda dating, you know, Jessica." And I'm like, "Wait, what?" And I, I, I went to the h- to HR.
Tyler: Wow.
Sean: And I requested a m- a meeting with her, and she was wonderful. And we sat down on the bowling lanes to have a meeting before doors opened, and she's like, um, she-- I can tell she was nervous, and I was just like, "I just wanted you to know, like, me and Jessica are together, and it's, you know, it's serious, and you know..."
She goes, "Oh my God, I thought you were quitting." Like, she was relieved. And like, and like this whole workplace thing-
Tyler: [01:19:00] Yeah ...
Sean: you know, yeah, it could be-
Tyler: I mean, kind of peaking at me too around that time as well, so
Sean: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like this is-
Tyler: This is like mid, mid 20-- like 2015- Right ... 2016, right?
Sean: Right.
Right, yeah. Like It's like this is like- You know, the reality is, is people meet at work. People have been meeting at work- Yeah ... for, for, for centuries. Of course. It's, it, and like I get it from, from owners-
Tyler: Liability.
Sean: Yeah. Yeah. But a lot of that liability stuff is just to protect themselves. Exactly. It's like- It's not protect
human beings are human beings. You spend time with people over and over again- Yeah ... you, you know, you have a commonality f- at the very least, right? So, uh, yeah, I was lucky. I mean, the Bowl gave me my wife.
Tyler: That's
Sean: amazing. You know? And, and many other people that we're friends with- Yeah ... that we've been to weddings for.
I was in a wedding, I went to a wedding two years ago.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Uh, like, you know, it's, it, it's a thing. So, um, yeah, it's, it's been, it's very, like, I'm very fortunate that that job gave me so much and, and my partner.
Tyler: And in turn, like she's the one that kinda gave you an ultimatum to kind [01:20:00] of- Yeah ... sober up as well.
Sean: Yeah. She was the first woman that I lived with that wasn't a, a roommate, you know? Yeah. Like a, a partner or girlfriend. And, uh, man, it'll put you under a microscope- Yeah ... of like where you're at, you know what I mean? 'Cause
Tyler: like- Well, you just learn. You're like, "Oh my God, I have not grown up." Oh my God. "I have not-"
Sean: Yes.
Tyler: I have not evolved into a man," you know? Yeah. An idiot,
Sean: yeah.
Tyler: Like, "I'm a moron." Yeah. You know? And I still have moments, you know? Of course, yeah. But now, now when I watch like Summer House and stuff, I'm like real judgy. Yeah. I'm like, "These motherfuckers, they don't know what they're talking about." My mo- my wife's like, "You didn't either."
Yeah. And I'm
Sean: like, "You're right." Yeah, yeah. True. Fair enough. Yeah. It, it, it, and that's, it's back to just like, you know- L-- To, to the life lessons, right? And just, like, taking a look at yourself and, and, and instead of doubling down on stupid-
Tyler: Yeah ...
Sean: and throwing away, you know, an amazing relationship and being stuck, you know, not being sober at that time, you know, h- you had to make hard changes, right?
For something you really wanted in your life. [01:21:00] Yeah. So, like, I owe my wife... You're gonna make me cry now. I owe my wife, like, everything. I am the
Tyler: Barbara Walters-
Sean: Yeah. ...
of
Tyler: surf podcasting,
Sean: so. It's not tears, it's ocean water. Get
Tyler: all the Kleen that got spilled 'cause it got joints.
Sean: Um- Talk amongst
Tyler: yourselves ...
Sean: I mean, she's been, she's been my rock.
Yeah. She's been everything to me. Like, she, she, she believes in me beyond. Everyone else doubts you, right? Mm-hmm. Like, all these people doubt you, whether it's to your face, it's behind your back, whether it's a parent or a sibling. They're like, "This fucking guy. Like, I don't know about this." Yeah. "Any of this stuff he's doing."
She always has my back, and she's got the most to lose. So, um, yeah, I'm really grateful. And, like, the owners... Like, I'll send Charlie Ryan a picture of me, him, and, and our son Aiden together. Yeah. And he's just like-
Tyler: He must love that ...
Sean: so happy, you know? Or, like, Pete Shapiro is the other owner, and, like, we'll, we'll go there randomly.
And, like, I, I DJ'd their holiday party this year- Yeah ... at the Bowl. They called me like, "Can you DJ the holiday?" I'm like, "Sure, yeah." I know some of the old staff, you know. Um, I'll just send them a picture when, when we're in there. Like, we were up in, in Bearsville- Yeah ... a couple years ago, and we were driving past with [01:22:00] my son, and I was like, "Oh, let's stop outside, take a picture at the Bearsville Theatre 'cause Pete Shapiro bought that.
Let, let's send him a picture." And we, like, pull up, and the GM for the spot is, like, pulling up, too. He's like, "What are you guys doing?" I'm like, "Oh, I'm Sean. I used to work with Pete." He's like, "Oh, I'm the GM here." No way. "You want me to take a picture?" And, like, he takes the picture for us. Yeah. And I'm like, "I just met your GM up there, Pete."
It's just like we still have that relationship, you know? Yeah. Like, um, so yeah, it, it's... We're, we're lucky. I mean, we're, we're, we're lucky to find each other in that space.
Tyler: It's, it's amazing what, uh, a part- an incredible partner can do to, like, send you forward.
Absolutely.
Tyler: You know? And like we s- mentioned before, when someone believes in you and they- tell you they believe in you to do this, and you do it.
Right. You know? Right. Like that, and that partner is like- Right ... the one who's, who's pushing you forward- Yep ... like that. Yep. And with your pizza, she sounded, from the podcast, like the one who really, like, [01:23:00] encouraged you.
Sean: Yeah.
Tyler: And in, and just totally believed in you.
Sean: Absolutely. I mean, she, she, it's unwavering.
And now, you know, with building a new place, there's a lot that comes with that.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And, um, you know, it's funny 'cause I, I think, I think some people think that, like, I'm on the boardwalk and, like, I'm just killing it. And like, "He must make so much money." It's like- Yeah ... people have no- ... idea. And it, and it's not like
And people don't wanna hear it, like- Mm-hmm ... woe is me. But it's like the, the reality is, it's like I want the, the customer, I want the experience, I want them to have fun, I want them to get a really good product, but it's fucking hard.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: It's like when you walk up and you order a pizza from me, it's like we haven't even made it yet.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: It's like we're gonna hand stretch it. Like we- like, you know, I- It's
Tyler: a process ...
Sean: I... Yeah. And even, like, I was showing... Well, my wife had some friends in town from Chicago the other day, and I'd switched my olive oil to an even better olive oil because
Tyler: it- Did they, they didn't request for deep dish?
Sean: They knew better.
Um, but it's like I just did it because it, I know what's better. Yeah. Like, th- this is better. And [01:24:00] it's like the percentage of people that are really gonna get that on the pie and understand that, y- who knows? I don't know. But it's like once you start to, like, pull back on ingredients or start to not believe in it, it's like you'll sl- you...
It's like quiet quitting is the new thing- Yeah. ... for young people, right? It's like you'll slowly start to lose your customers- Yeah ... because they're like, "Oh, a change. It's not good." And it's like instead of being like, "Damn, I think it's better."
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You know? So, you know, that's kinda been my focus and, and, and my wife is always kinda pushing me to, to, to keep going.
Tyler: It's funny, like you very rarely hear of, like, people being like, "Oh, this restaurant keeps getting better."
Sean: Right.
Tyler: You know? Right. A lot of times people say, "Oh, it was great then, but- Yeah ... not, it's slacked off." And, and I'm always like How is that? Like, it should be always getting better. Yeah. You know? You should always be improving or trying to improve it, I feel like.
Yeah. W- not just restaurants, just businesses in general, you know?
Sean: Yeah. I, I, I... It's, it's a... I think it's a personality thing for people or, like, a systems problem.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And, um, you know, it's like I [01:25:00] had a really rough l- year last year. My mom was really sick, so I, I really couldn't be as hands-on at The Concession as I wanted to be, and I think w- everything was fine.
Yeah. You know? I don't think anything was wrong necessarily, but even though I'm trying to open this other store, I still have a lot more time this year. So I've been in there, like, constantly w- you know, I was in this morning- Yeah ... before I came here. It's like just, "Now we're over-mixing the dough a little bit, like, this year.
Like, pull back on the mix." Mm-hmm. "Because if you over-mix it, it's gonna be a little tougher. So let's soften that a little bit." Hmm. "Let's pull back a little bit." And it's like nothing's wrong. No one's complaining. I'm not getting complaints about it. And anytime people do complain, they, they write to me personally.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And I fix it. I've had legit complaints before where it's like, "Our bad. We can fix it. I can refund you." Yeah. "Or you can come back for another pie," whatever. But I think I have a, a, a good... And we're not so huge, right? But I think I have a good enough rapport with the customer where they know they can just reach out, and I'm pretty active on social media- Yeah
where I can just hit them back as opposed to somebody [01:26:00] trashing your restaurant online.
Tyler: Well, also, you have this incredible passion for it. Yeah. And, like... And I'm curious, like, did, like, was pizza always in your life in that way? Were you, were you as into pizza growing up as, as, like, when it, like, became a thing for you?
And- No. No ... and when, when was it that you were like, "I wanna make this. I wanna do this"?
Sean: Yeah. That was... It was funny 'cause it, it was shortly before I got married that, that we're really, um, started to dive into it. But it, it's always something I loved.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And there's always been this thing in, in New York and it's like, "Oh, who's got the best pizza," right?
Mm-hmm. And, um, all the places that would, would, would talked about and, and, you know, people look at Di Fara, right? Yeah. And, and Di Fara doesn't have the same acclaim that they, that they once did. You have the Lindystries and the Mammas too and the Scarrs and all those guys- Yeah ... that are, like, the top of the place.
But-
Tyler: Satur's now
Sean: apparently. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, Chrissy's- Yeah ... you know. Um, but D- Di Fara sat in obscurity for many, many years.
Tyler: [01:27:00] Exactly.
Sean: Okay. He, he was a guy making pizza in a neighborhood, and then a food writer, you know, wrote about the place and sent it to outer space, right?
And, um, it was great. It was great pizza. And I was lucky to get- Yeah ... pizza from Dom while he, while he was here, and I, I've, I've chatted with his daughter and his son before. But, um, it's like, uh- At that point it was like people started to get into pizza- Mm-hmm ... and I wasn't like going crazy for things.
And then, um, and then like I started to wanna make it. I was watching, um What's that show that used to be on? Oh my God, I'm not gonna remember this show. Was it Ugly De- was it Ugly Delicious?
Tyler: Oh, yes. Was that the- On Vice, right?
Sean: Right.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And-
Tyler: Not Fuck That's Delicious.
Sean: Yes. No, that's, that's What's His Name.
That's, yeah, yeah. That's, that's Action Bronson.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Um, and- But I remember
Tyler: Ugly Delicious, yeah ...
Sean: yeah, they had on Mark from Lucali.
Tyler: Yes. Right? I remember that one.
Sean: Mark struck me.
Tyler: Dude, he rolls his, rolls his dough with a wine bottle.
Sean: I know. I love it. I know, I know.
Tyler: I do that at home
Sean: now. Yeah. You, you have to.[01:28:00]
Um, he struck me-
Tyler: Yeah ...
Sean: because he was a little bit older.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Sean: Uh, he'd already had a life and a career. He's charismatic.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Right? Carroll Gardens, has history, has a vibe. I'm like, "Du- this guy's interesting." Yeah. And that, that struck me, and then, like, knowing Paulie Gee's story- Yes ... his age when he got into it.
Why he got into it. Like, he basically was in retirement, and he took his retirement and he dumped into a pizzeria, bro.
Tyler: It's-
Sean: Crazy ...
Tyler: it's beautiful because it shows that, you know, y- you haven't written your, written your, your last act yet. Uh, no matter how old you are. Not even his best act. Yeah. You know?
Sean: I mean, he,
Tyler: now he, like- Now he's opened up all these other places,
Sean: and- Bro, he's got, he's got, he's got two places in the Garden.
Tyler: I fucking- People forget
Sean: that ...
Tyler: it, it is one... It is probably in my top five-
Sean: Yeah ...
Tyler: slices, for sure.
Sean: H- I th- I personally think, I've said this many times to people, I think his squares- Yeah ... at his location in Greenpoint are the most underrated slice in New York City.
Tyler: Dude, it's fucking
Sean: insane. In New York City.
Yeah.
Tyler: And he makes a vegan one-
Sean: Yeah,
Tyler: yeah ... that's fucking off the hook
Sean: too. Yeah, yep.
Tyler: Like-
Sean: Yeah ...
Tyler: come on. Who makes a vegan [01:29:00] square slice?
Sean: Yeah, yeah. He, he... You know, I learned something recently. I, I was, I was listening to a podcast with Vincent Rotolo. Mm-hmm. Vincent Rotolo was from New York, and he lives in Vegas.
He's a big pizza guy. He's got good pie.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And he did a podcast with this kid, Alex, I know Pie to Pie, great pizza podcast. And he was talking about, he used to date a woman that was vegan.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And they'd go out to one place that had an option for vegan, and it's not about just feeding the person that's vegan, it's about having a spot that you can go to and bring your friends.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And I do the, I do a vegan pie at, at my concession, and it's like, when you look at the numbers of it, and you look how many sell per season-
Tyler: Yeah ...
Sean: dude, I could 86 it, and I could say, "Well, this pie doesn't sell that much. It, uh, I'm, I'm gonna get rid of it. We don't need to do it anymore." But you can't forget about- Yeah
you know, I'm hanging out with Tim and John and Tina and, and she's vegan or he's vegan. It's like we can all eat here together, and we can all share. You know, we can all get a pie, and we can all eat together. And, you, you can't account for those lost dollars in [01:30:00] that way.
Tyler: Yeah,
Sean: yeah. Or that, that service that you're doing for somebody too.
Tyler: Those are, those are your loss leaders a lot of times. Yes. Like, they will... They're, they're the marketing. Yes. They're what gonna bring people in- Totally ... a lot of the times. Yep. You know? And I think, uh, uh, it's a great philosophy to have. Yeah. You know?
Sean: Yeah.
Tyler: I love the fact, though, you start doing pizza, and you're like, "I wanna do this- I'm gonna fuck an apprentice.
And you luckily had chance meeting with Speedy Romeo- Yep ... with Alex from Speedy Romeo- Yep ... which is fucking awesome because I'm like, I'm actually, it, I love that place. My other buddy Alex introduced it to me, who has a s- another surf podcast, and he's friends with that Alex.
Sean: Justin.
Tyler: Yeah. Justin. Yeah, Justin, yeah.
Sorry, I'm thinking, I'm thinking of- Yeah, yeah ... I'm mixing my friend Alex with Justin. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, my bad. And then, but then it's like I'm talking to Mike Poindexter. I don't know if you know Mike, who lives out in Rockaway, but he knows Justin, and he's doing a, a tool for him for, like, cooking, uh, fish- Oh, wow
that you can test it. And we're work- and I'm helping him source it right [01:31:00] now. Legendary. You know? Like-
Sean: Yeah. Justin's a legend.
Tyler: So when I heard that, I was like, "Oh,
Sean: yeah." Yeah. Justin's a legend. I mean, yeah, the chance meeting with him and the just hitting up Paulie to just kinda come and apprentice, that, that started because of the chef at Brooklyn Bowl.
Yeah. My m- Sh- Chef Richard. He told me to go apprentice. And he's friends with the guy that, that runs Motorino.
Tyler: Yeah. I remember.
Sean: Right. Motorino's the bomb.
Tyler: Ugh, I remember when it used to be on Graham. That was-
Sean: And another place doesn't get talked about- No ... in the pizza thing, and it's like that, that pizza doesn't miss.
Oh, it's awesome. Serious. It does not miss. Yeah. So I wind up just seeing Paulie post that, you know, that he was looking for help, and it was like this funny post. H- him like, "People can't find the address. The address is-" "... it's in the listing. It's in Craigslist." And I'm like- It's in the Yellow Pages. Come on
this guy's a character, you know? And, uh, yeah, I went and I apprenticed with him, and then like the chance meeting with Justin at the Bowl because, uh, he wanted to present Dick Dale with a pie.
Tyler: I-
Sean: Was sick ...
Tyler: when I heard this stor- Listeners, listen to that fucking
Sean: episode.
Tyler: Yeah, it's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Is it Dick Dale's King of Surf Guitar?
Yeah. Legend. And I was just like- Legend ... oh, that connects to this.
Sean: Yeah, and his, and his wife. Yeah. [01:32:00] She's just badass woman. And he was cool, and it all worked out. Like, it all... And, and Justin to this day is a friend. Um, I think he lives in Norway.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And, uh, I mean, he's such a talented chef. Yeah. He's such a talented...
Even his photography.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: His editing, everything he does, he, he, everything he touches, like he, he's somebody that spends time on s- spends, spends his time on things, right?
Tyler: But, but that's the whole thing, right? It's like learning to start over and know and l- and, and understand you need to be humble and that it's a process.
Right. And y- you know, you gotta Miyagi that.
Sean: Yes. Well, he's Mi- We're
Tyler: gonna turn that into a verb ...
Sean: he's Miyagi-ed living in Norway- Yeah ... with, with his wife and his two children while owning a Michelin-star restaurant- Yeah. ... in Greenpoint and a pizzeria in Brooklyn.
Tyler: I
Sean: know. I mean- It's crazy. How did you figure that one out, bro?
Seriously. And I like, it's not like it's a regular restaurant. He's got a, he's, he's Michelin star restaurant. Like that- Dude ... how are you doing that? But he, you know, he knows how to teach, he knows how to hire the right people, he knows how, he knows how to run a business.
Tyler: Yeah. And [01:33:00] create systems that work.
Sean: Yep.
Tyler: You know? Exactly. Which is really important.
Sean: Yes.
Tyler: And like, it's been such a, it's, it's... It must be so, for you, like gratifying to have started at the bottom again- Yeah ... after being a, a, you know, a manager at Brooklyn Ball and kinda, and then you went to Sweet Chick for a little bit- Yep ... which also, like I wanted to talk about, like- Dealing with failure too- Yeah
right? Like it was- Yeah ... just wasn't the right vibe for you.
Sean: No.
Tyler: And it was also a culture that had been built in- Yep ... and you couldn't really put your own stamp on it.
Sean: Yeah, I couldn't get through, you know? And, uh, that's the same experience I had with the Bhangra party. Like, I just, I, I just felt on the outside looking in, and I just didn't see myself getting to be there.
And, like, the Sweet Chick thing was so interesting because culturally, like the music, the hip hop, the vibe is like, I identify a lot with that, but I, I'm different. Like I, I just have a, a, a... I don't know. Like I'm into all kinds of things and I don't like anything to be this [01:34:00] like strong identity thing for me.
Yeah. And, um, just the way that, that, that they did things was so different than I wanted to do things, and I realized I was like kinda working against something and it's like you either gotta buy into what's there or you gotta go.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And I realized that at some point pretty early on. Yeah. I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna have to like change the things that are important to me," you know?
Yeah. And it's not to say that those things were wrong for them. Those things were right for them, but they weren't right for me. Yeah. And you had to, you had to separate from that. You had to make a change. But it, it felt like a failure. I mean, Brooklyn Bowl threw a party for... Like- Yeah. ... dude, J-Rad played.
Joe, Joe Russo's Almost Dead, sold-out show. They brought me up on stage. Every screen had my name on it. Like you, you could cry. Like the, the, the, the whole staff signed bowling pins to me. Owner. Like the whole thing was like over the top. And he, and he came to me, he's like, "Don't leave."
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: He's like, uh...
And then he tried to have me, get me a job at WeWork- Yeah ... managing a space that they were gonna build in Tribeca. [01:35:00] And I had made a commitment to, to my friend Kyle, who I'm still in touch with and, and love. Yeah. He, he lives in, in Madison, uh, again. But, um, yeah, I, I, I wanted change. I wanted to move up. And w- it's, you know, when you make big things of stuff and this big, this big thing is happening, it's a lot to then be like-
Tyler: Shit
Sean: this is a better opportunity to just go back.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: But I was relieved to go back too. Like it was a, it was a moment. It's
Tyler: amazing that you could go back too. That- I know ... that speaks volumes about you, uh, more than anything, you know?
Sean: Ego, right? Ah. I, I, I think, I think you gotta dump the ego because it's like, oh, y- that didn't work out for you, and like you have all these things that play in your head about a failure, right?
Yeah. And you gotta be like, "This is what's good for me and my wife. This is what's good for me first and for us."
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Um, it's a better, it's a better fit.
Tyler: Absolutely. And, and then to be able to start doing pop-ups and getting that, uh, you know, encouragement I guess, and kinda proof of concept [01:36:00] is really important.
And what I love though is like how you've just kinda like- grown with your pizzas and you, you know, you, you know all the different styles and you're, you're testing out places and, and you're going everywhere. And you're, you're like first making it by hand, and now you got a mixer- Right ... and you're like, "Oh, I got-" Now I got a
Sean: bigger
Tyler: mixer
And you got a bigger mixer, and you- Yeah ... and you're stepping up with the olive oil, and you're like- Right ... and now you're, you're really like getting to the part where, you know, now you're about to open up Crown Pizza. Yeah. And I was hoping you could share with our listeners what your vision is for that place, what the, the culture y- that you wanna create for that place too- Yeah
and your appreciation for the Detroit slice and Detroit culture.
Sean: Yeah.
Tyler: Yeah, I- 'Cause I love this full circle, by the way, with your dad.
Sean: Yeah.
Tyler: Doo Wop and- I know ... soul, and it kinda-
Sean: And,
Tyler: and- ... full circle there ...
Sean: and all of it's c- all these elements are there i- in the space. And, um, you know, it's been a long build-out.
It's, it's been [01:37:00] a process, and I wanted certain things to be the way they are because I wanted, you know, it sounds, might sound weird to some of the listeners and specifically people in Rockaway, well, they might get it. It's like I didn't want it to feel like it was necessarily in Rockaway.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Because '
Tyler: Cause there's plenty of places that feel like Rockaway already.
Yes. They- Why would you reinvent it?
Sean: I, it, it's the, we're already there. Yeah. It's like when I was living in, in Williamsburg and living in Brooklyn, around Brooklyn, everything became the Brooklyn this, the Brooklyn that, the Brooklyn, Brooklyn- Ugh ... Brooklyn, Brook- It, it just so overused the word Brooklyn- Yeah
and what everything Brooklyn was. It's like it, it, it exhausted j- it exhausts you, right? And it's just like people have a fatigue for that stuff, and, um, I wanted to bring something different. I wanted to bring a refreshing look at a space and, um, also kick back a, a bit of nostalgia. So, you know, your old school pizzerias will have, like, a checkered floor, right?
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Or they'll have orange and red and green- Yeah ... Italian colors and, and, and [01:38:00] orange, you know,
Tyler: pizza. Yeah.
Sean: Me, I was like, "I really want-"
Tyler: Soccer player pictures on the
Sean: wall. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like a map of Italy and, you know. And that stuff's great. Yeah. And even nostalgia stuff like Paulie's- Yeah ... done with, with- Yeah
with his slice shop and, and the wood paneling. That's, that's great. Yeah. And I, I love it, but it's like that's not what I wanted to do. It's not what I wanted to create. And going with the blue was, was a big w- was a, was a, a change, you know? And basically when I had the designers, I, the direction I gave them was some of the things that I really love, some of the colors that I really might wanna do, and we did three different designs and, uh, they, they knocked it out of the park.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And one of them was actually, like, hot pink and, like, bluish, more of like the boogie boarding stuff I grew- Yeah ... I grew up with. That color scheme.
Tyler: Mach 10 baby- Yeah ... with the slip out
Sean: fins. Yeah, yeah. Like that. I, I, and I, and I have one of my, one of my pictures I put on my Instagram has actually, like, a Mach 10 with, like, the square pizza on it, right?
To invoke that, like, 'cause it's like, you know, surfing's, [01:39:00] surfing's big right now, right? Yeah. And surfing's, you know, the wave, but it's like I grew up in boogie board culture.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You know what I mean? And it's like there's a different little, little brother-ish vibe to that.
Tyler: Well, well all of us surfers, our age at least- grew up boogie boarding.
Sean: Absolutely.
Tyler: You know, we, we, we, we evolved into surfing, but boogie boarding is still a huge part of our life-
Sean: Yeah,
Tyler: yeah ... you know, and our- And it- ... our history ...
Sean: there's just, there's just that, that funness and that lightness about this little foam board.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Sean: You know? That, like, it really makes you kid-like.
Like, you could see an adult, you know, or a kid surfing, and it's like, okay. But you see, like, an adult boogie boarding- Yeah ... it's very kid-like. Yeah. Totally. You're like laying on your belly and, like, got your fins on. It's like... So I, I kinda wanted to invoke that. I had all these different designs they did, but we went with the blue because the- I love it
the blue... Thank you. The blue- It strikes- ... really spoke to me. Yeah. Blue and- And
Tyler: white,
Sean: right? Blue and white, yeah. W- so we did, like, blue and white checkered floor- Awesome ... to create that, that pizzeria feel. I had, um, this guy, Jeff, who redid all of Paulie's. Uh, he did re- redid 60 Green Point Paulie's. Nice. And he does, like, [01:40:00] Rocknroller and Skinny Dennis and all those places.
Nice. He's a, he's a amazing woodworker. I had him build me this beautiful bench. Oh. And then I had these har- hand-cut tables out of, like, maple. Oh. And then we did diner stools- Nice ... in, in the window. Like, I have three seats in the window, and I just like... You know, diners are disappearing in New York, right?
Tyler: Yep.
Sean: But it's like, it's kind of a kick and it, it's like-
Tyler: Are you gonna put a jukebox there?
Sean: I, I thought about it. We don't have the space, but you can get those old Se- the, the, I think the Seeburgs. Yeah. You can put them on the wall. Yeah. So maybe down the road. If I had more space, 'cause I've looked at the Wurlitzers and all that stuff-
Tyler: Yeah
Sean: and some of them come already filled-
Tyler: Wow ...
Sean: with all the, you know, '50s doo-wop records in them.
Tyler: Epic.
Sean: Yeah, but some of them are pretty large. I don't think I have the room. We'll
Tyler: get there.
Sean: Yeah, exactly. We'll get there. In the next place.
Tyler: We'll get
Sean: there. Um, yeah, when I take over next door. Yeah. But, um, yeah, I, i- i- I had s- a lot of ideas of how I want it to look and how I want it to feel.
And I want... You know, Rockaway's far from everything, and I want people to come into that space and be like, "Damn, this is, this is cool." We need, though,
Tyler: places, [01:41:00] anchors that draw people to Rockaway.
Sean: Absolutely.
Tyler: You know? Like, Di Fara, you know, brought people to those neighbor- You know, like, the, these, a lot of...
Now particularly, like, restaurants bring people to neighborhoods. People, people
Sean: travel for pizza.
Tyler: Exactly.
Sean: People travel for pizza. They do.
Tyler: And, and now Go- uh, Hochul just struck down the bromide, you know, ban, so there you
Sean: go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know. That whole thing. Oh my God. Watching the pizza guys online squabble about this thing.
Tyler: Does it really make a difference, do you think?
Sean: I don't use it.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Thank God for me. Um, I would say-
Tyler: By the way, listeners, if you're not familiar- Yeah ... they were gonna ban this, this, uh, this, uh, uh, chemical- Potassium bromate ... ingredient, potassium bromate, that they were gonna put in, that a lot of pizza places put into their dough.
Sean: It's, it's in, it's in the flour.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: So there's a flour- Yeah ... called Alltrumps flour, and it's bleached and bromated So they've done studies on this, you know, on, I don't know if they've done it on animals or what they did the studies on, but basically it, it can cause cancer potentially.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: So it's, it's been banned in California for a long time.
Yeah. I think it's [01:42:00] banned in China and other countries. So, uh, it's probably not good for you. And what it does is it strengthens the gluten- Mm-hmm ... in the flour, and it helps to rise quick. Now, New York City is about space, right? Yeah. Really little spaces, and refrigeration is, is... If, if you have a small walk-in, if you have a little, little fridge, like, how long can you actually let stuff ferment and sit- Mm-hmm
for long periods of time? Like, in the concession I do a three-day fermentation. So what is happening is that, that dough is eating up the sugars, breaking everything down. So when you eat it, you're not getting this belly bomb. Yes. This, this puffy belly bomb. Yes. And a lot of, like, the dollar slices that used to be around, all that stuff, that's a really quick rise, right?
Yeah. A lot of the old school places, a quick rise. But a lot of them do a quick rise 'cause they don't have the space to hold- Exactly ... dough for days. So that, that's the part where it could affect pizzerias, or if you just can't get out of your own way and won't really m- remeasure your ingredients and make your dough.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: But it will make pizza better if it actually [01:43:00] went through. Yeah. Overall it will. Yeah. It would just take a little time.
Tyler: Yeah. Do you... I mean- What do you... I, I have a couple other questions about just, like, what's happening, like, with pizza in our culture. It's become such a, such a thing with influencer culture- Mm-hmm
and how many people come in and, like, you know, Dave Portnoy. Yep. Thoughts on Dave Portnoy and his one bite taste- ... you know, and what he's done for, done to or for pizz- pizza culture. You know? Like, 'cause I know there's... it's quite controversial for some people. Yeah.
Sean: It's... We, we live in such a crazy world right now.
Right? It's like, um-
Tyler: People obsess over shit.
Sean: They obsess over everything. Um, I don't really think about Dave Portnoy. Um, it seems like- It's a
Tyler: good way to live life
Sean: normally. Yeah, yeah. It's like, he's got a very specific palate, right? Yeah. And he wants what he wants. He wants it hard bake on it. He wants it crispy.
I can like all those things. Yeah. It's not what I seek out when I go to pizzerias. There's so many things I, I, I look for. [01:44:00]
Tyler: What, what do you look for? Like, what are you, what do you look to enjoy about a pizza slice?
Sean: T- texture's im- important. Mm-hmm. But it doesn't have to be crispy. Yeah. You know, I think the, the idea of everything being crispy, it's fine.
Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's a great thing in foods. It's a preference. Having something crispy, you know? Yeah. Something salty, something sweet. Um, I just look for things that are a little bit different or just done well. Yeah. And I really look for consistency.
Tyler: Mm.
Sean: So if I'm really gonna show up to a restaurant or to a pizzeria over and over and over again, and they're busy- Yeah
and they can really be consistent, it's impressive.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You know, because once again, they're back to, like, having systems dialed in. Um, but I don't want every slice to be like a Dave Portnoy preferred slice. No. It, it... It's so boring for me. It's like, every slice is a really hard bake. It doesn't flop. Da-da...
It's like, I don't want... I, I make Neapolitan pizza at The Concession. Yeah. Like-
Tyler: That
Sean: shit's
Tyler: gonna
Sean: flop ... it's gonna flop. Yeah. It's, it's what it is. And the... I've eaten so many, so many pizzas around New York, and, [01:45:00] um, it's al- I can kinda tell what I'm gonna like too. I saw a guy and his slice on the way over here.
I was like, "Oh, that looks bad." Um, it just looked bad. I saw a couple kids-
Tyler: Was that Sbarro's?
Sean: It looked ba- Yeah. Michael Scott's favorite place. It, it just looked bad. Um, but yeah, it's like, you can tell when people... Like, I just wanna see a person, you know, putting some care and love into it, and maybe if they're just doing things by the book, and using good flour, and us- using the tomatoes- Mm
and, and the, and good cheese, that's great. But if they're a little adventurous, they're doing something different or their own way, um, I love that. You know? I'm,
Tyler: I'm really cur- I wanna try that Tokyo pizzeria- Yeah ... that opened. Yeah. That sounds really interesting. It's interesting. You know? Different.
Sean: I th- I think it's a lot of hype.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Probably. I th- I think it's a lot of hype. It's, it's a Neapolitan pizza. Yeah. You know, I think, um, the Japanese do so many things well. Yeah. And they're so meticulous. So it's not gonna taste bad. No. It's just not. No. It's like-
Tyler: It's gonna be good-
Sean: Yeah ... regardless. But it's back to the care you put into things, right?
Mm-hmm. And what... And, like, who, who's making your food? You know, who's really [01:46:00] behind there, like- creating this recipe or, like, buying in the goods and, like, is it really about a buck or are they really trying to, like, wow you with, with flavor, you know? Yeah. Some people, like you go to Mama's Too. The guy that runs Mama's Too, that dude's always there.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: And he's, like, serious. Like- Serious ... his food is incredible. The guys from Lindustrie-
Tyler: Yeah ...
Sean: so consistent.
Tyler: It's like that or like, you know, I see- always see, like, Lucky Charlie. Like, that guy- Yeah ... is always there. Yeah. You know, it's always... You know, such a character- You know ... and he's part of it. Yeah.
Yeah. Like, I love that
Sean: shit. Yeah.
Tyler: You
Sean: know? He, he, he was the guy behind Williamsburg Pizza. Yeah. And he's got Coniglio's in, in, in, uh, in Jersey. But he's a very, very knowledgeable guy about- Yeah ... pizza. Like, he knows how to do it.
Tyler: Dude, he fucking bought, like, an antique, you know, coal oven just for the sp- Like, it's so cool.
Sean: It's, it's... A lot of it... See, if you can actually perform the pizza and you can do many kinds of styles and you know how to nail that coal, old... Like, I like... Totonno's used to be my favorite pizzeria- Yeah ... in New York. If you can kinda nail that style, but also you're creating a story, [01:47:00] right? And you're creating a legacy.
Like, if you- Mm-hmm ... look into the legacy of L- Lombardi's Pizza- Yeah ... and, like, how that was all created by Baluchi- Mm-hmm ... Andrew Baluchi, who, who's passed. It, it's a lot of about a s- a story. People want a story. People wanna attach themselves to something. So you kinda... You need to have a story, but you need to have a good product as well.
Tyler: And I, I think that's kinda where you're heading is, like, even with the podcast and everything, you've created this gorgeous story that I think people can kind of, uh, identify with and can connect with. And I think that is really important, you know? And sure, yeah, it's like it's, it's not the pizza o- so much, but it's the story.
But that helps. Right. You know? Right. Every little bit helps.
Sean: Yeah. I think, I think, um, you know, it's a part of you. Yeah. You know? And you're gonna get people that i- identify with you and, and, and what you put out into the world. And, um, they wanna be around that.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You know? If, if the, if the pizza's good, they're g- they're gonna keep coming back for it, right?
It's, it's, it's kinda the vibe. It's like I- [01:48:00] Yeah ... I've been going to Mamoun's down on, on, on- Yeah ... MacDougle St- Street forever. Yeah. And it's like the, the son used to always be in there. And it's like, it's incredibly consistent. Like, I'm, I'm always gonna go back 'cause it's always kinda the same, you know, thing.
So yeah, if you can create that, but you gotta, you gotta, you gotta stay on top of it.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You gotta keep trying to elevate.
Tyler: Exactly. So, um, we're gonna finish up here, but I have... I do this questionnaire, and it's based on the, the Bernard Pivot ques- questionnaire. But I would do it for surfing and, and I wanted to adapt it for you- Okay
and pizza. All right? Love it. So we're gonna do this. We're gonna close it out. Your favorite pizza topping? Normally I ask what's your favorite surf term, so-
Sean: Ezzo pepperoni. Ooh. Specifically Ezzo pepperoni made in Columbus, Ohio. Oh. By the Ezzo family, yeah.
Tyler: Your least favorite pizza topping?
Sean: Hmm. That's a tough one.
Tyler: [01:49:00] Everyone normally says pineapple, but you know, I'm not f- I'm not, I'm not adverse to pineapple. No, I like pineapple. I like it a little
Sean: s- I like it. I, I, I put it on with the pepperoni.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: Maybe anchovies. I'm, I, I don't want any anchovies. I'm good.
Tyler: Yeah. I kinda-
Sean: Too salty for me.
Tyler: I... Great in Caesar salad.
Sure. That's about it for me.
Sean: Yeah. Mashed up, yeah. Yeah, anchovies, that's the one. Yeah, no, no thanks.
Tyler: If you could go back in time and have one specific slice of pizza, what would it be?
Sean: I'd like to go back in time to, like, when Totonno's first went to, to Coney Island.
Tyler: Yeah.
Sean: You know, 'cause that, they, they all came... All those early pizza guys came out of either there or what used to be Grimaldi's- Mm-hmm ... is now Juliana's. Yeah. Right? That man, uh, the Grimaldi family sold that name. He opened Juliana's.
That oven in that, that pizzeria is still one of my favorites. So I'd like to go back just to sit when they first opened. Yeah. Just, just, just for the vibe.
Tyler: And if heaven exists, what type of pie would you want to eat for eternity?
Sean: Wow, that's a tough question. [01:50:00]
Tyler: I know. Gets you thinking.
Sean: Hmm
It, it might be a Neapolitan Love it That's not a popular opinion for, for pizza people right now, but it might be a Neapolitan. I know everyone wants crispy, but I love Neapolitan pizza
Tyler: I love it
Sean: Yeah
Tyler: I, I'm, I'm excited. I, I'm excited 'cause I love a Detroit slice, and I love that you're doing that- Yeah
because it's, it's the caramelization of the crust- Yeah ... that really gets me
Sean: It's, it's, it's its own thing
Tyler: You know?
Sean: People don't understand, but
Tyler: it's its own thing People are like, "Oh, it's like Sicilian." I'm like, "No." No "No, it's not." It's a
Sean: step above.
Tyler: It's different Honestly, yeah It's, it, it totally is. Yeah You know?
Like Sicilian's just a lot of b- lot of dough, you know? Yeah This is not that much dough, actually. Yeah And it's just
Sean: so many elements And even the sauce being at the end- Yeah ... is, is a different thing 'cause, 'cause, you know, the way you eat things and what hits your, your tongue first and all that, it's like- Totally
it's a different thing, you know? So yeah, I mean, I, I, like you know I, I've [01:51:00] eaten pizza everywhere, and there used to be a guy, this guy Andrew, that owned La Rose over in, in Carroll Gardens, and uh, he had Detroit-style pizza. It was the best pizza I'd ever eaten before. Yeah And I went to hundreds of pizzerias around New York-
literally, and it blew my mind. Whew. So yeah, like it's one of those special things, you know?
Tyler: I love it. Yeah. I love it. And like I- I really appreciate your story, your evolution. I love how one thing has kinda led into another almost throughout your life and, and has also, like, again, like, this ab- this ability to, to start over and be humble is, is such a great story and lesson for many of us, I think.
And I really appreciate it, and I, I can't wait till you're open.
Sean: Thank you.
Tyler: And we didn't really get into the, the, the build-out stuff. Yeah. And that's probably for the better anyway. Probably,
Sean: yeah, 'cause
Tyler: I'm in a better mood 'cause of it. Let's keep the dir- let, let's keep the dirty laundry-
Sean: Yeah ...
Tyler: dirty, dirty and- Yeah
not [01:52:00] deal
Sean: with that. Well, it, I mean, the, the one thing I can address with that, it's like, you know, y- y- you gotta stay positive and you gotta stay happy, because when y- you let things kinda drag you down, you're kinda ruining your days. Yeah. You know, I have a five-year-old kid, I have a wife, I have, I, I've...
I'm lucky. Yeah. You know, I wake up by the beach. I'm a lucky guy. Like, when, when you start to really let that pull you down, and a lot of business owners have, have been through this- Yeah ... it's like anything in life. It, it can really ruin your days. And you gotta step back and be like, "Dude, it's gonna, it's gonna get there when it's there, and it's
Tyler: okay."
I'm, I've been in the middle of it many- Yep ... with this stuff lately, you know? Yep, yep. So I hear it.
Sean: Yep.
Tyler: Um, where can our listeners find you? Where can they find Crown Pizza? Where can they find Shawnee Pizza? Here's your plug- I love it ...
Sean: opportunity. So I, I'm on Instagram, uh, Shawnee Pizza, also Cran- Crown Square Pizza.
Tyler: Actively on Instagram.
Sean: Yeah, I'm active, yeah. Um, lots of music, lots of pizza things, vi- hopefully good vibes. Yeah. I'll put a surfer port up once in a while for you guys. [01:53:00] Um, I'm at The Concession in Rockaway on 97th Street. We're open seven days a week, actually starting today. Uh, unless it's pouring rain- Yes
we will not be open. And then Crown Square Pizza is right up the street on 99th Street and Rockaway Beach Boulevard. Mm-hmm. Uh, and hopefully I'm trying to get that open sometime this summer.
Tyler: I'm so excited, and I'm super pumped Uh, listeners, just gotta give a quick shout-out here to our engineer, Joe.
Sean: Thank you,
Tyler: Joe. And Newsstand Studio in Rock- here in Rockefeller Center- Yeah, we are ... where we have this sick place, and everyone's walking by us.
Sean: They're taking pictures of us.
Tyler: They're taking pictures of us. They don't even know who the fuck we are. Is that guy famous or not? They're like, "Is he kind of a big deal?"
Yeah, yeah. "Does he have many leather-bound books?" Yeah, exactly. You know? "Does it smell like rich mahogany in here?" Bro, it does. You know? But it's, like, really nice, and, uh, and just always appreciative of Joe, who's, uh, now, uh, has another kid that just came, popped out, and so he's, like, half asleep having to listen to us.
And, uh, also, uh, you know, uh, just gotta say, if you, uh, watched this or heard this and you're curious [01:54:00] about the pizza ax or the credit card squeegee or any other fun novelty items, it's all, like, very pop art inspired. Uh, it's got Ben Day dots like Roy Lichtenstein, and all functional. Go check out Everyday Objects.
That's the name of my company that I'm just launching. You could go to eogift.com, and everything objectsgift on Instagram and TikTok, so go check it out. And of course, don't forget to follow Swell Season Surf Radio @swellseasonsurfradio on Instagram. And, uh, we'll see you all down the line soon. Yew.