Save Pavones with Walter Brenes
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Tyler: [00:01:00] Hello and welcome to the Swell Season Surf Podcast. I'm your host, Tyler Brewer. In late May Costa Rican police arrived in Central PAVs at 4:00 AM dressed in body [00:02:00] armor, rifles in hand and gas masks on to escort demolition crews. Their mission. Tear down local businesses, residents were caught off guard and had to scramble just to salvage food and goods from inside the buildings.
Shockingly, the local government of GoTo appears to be backing developers and demolition teams over the very citizens they're elected to serve. At the heart of the issue is a controversial slate of proposed luxury real estate developments. These projects threaten to reshape PAVs impacting the environment, limiting beach access, and displacing local family run businesses.
Developers insist their plans are legal and sustainable, but residents and environmental experts are raising serious concerns about land concessions and violations of Costa Rica's Coastal Protection Laws. The municipality of GoTo holds the keys. Its decisions on land, [00:03:00] concessions, and approvals will ultimately shape the future of Pavona and potentially public access to one of the world's most treasured surf breaks for the local community.
This isn't just about real estate. It's about losing livelihoods, heritage, and the spirit of the town built on surfing, tourism, and indigenous culture and ecology. Joining us on this episode is Walter Breez, a Costa Rican environmental lawyer working alongside the people of Pavona to resist the development and protect the soul of their town.
He's here to explain what's really happening and how we can help. Walter, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining me.
Walter Brenes: Thank you Tyler, uh, for introducing this, uh, issue. You know, Costa Rica is like a big jungle for some people, but for us it's home, you know? So we are like in a, in, in a country that people use to get, you know, in love when they [00:04:00] come here. So this is super important that people start getting involved, you know, in these kind of issues that we have in Costa Rica because it's not just bans.
You know, my work is depending communities from this kind of gentrification that we are right now, like living here in Costa Rica. So people is getting realized that this jungle is not gonna be anymore jungle. You know, it's gonna be become like big cities. Uh, and we are like fighting that right now. So thank you for supporting us.
Tyler: no worries. Uh, we were just talking before we went on, even just about the gentrification that has been happening in Costa Rica. How, how, how much is that been? Post COVID. And how much of it was just over time just been speeding up that gentrification. And how, how, how bad is the impact of it currently, would you say?
Walter Brenes: Well, maybe as you know, Tyler, we depend a lot from United States. So in the 2000, you [00:05:00] know, in the beginning people start coming to Costa Rica just for investing and just buying properties, you know, mainly the Mardo, HaCo, modern Antonio. Um, that was like the three big cities. The people start getting here, you know?
Then we realized that we have another, uh, second, uh, big airport, international airport in Liberia. So wanna cast to become like the biggest area that's started receiving people that wanna invest money. In Costa Rica, it was starting, you know, like in, in the early, uh, 20, right? Just to. 1 22. Right. Uh, was like different because COVID just become, to put us like in a different perspective about around the world because we didn't have so many rules.
You know, we was like much flexible with COVID, right? So 21 for the 22, uh, was like the. The second biggest expose, you know, because in 2009 with all the bubble, that was like going with the bank, uh, problems, you know, [00:06:00] the houses, everything, you know, like demolished issues that United States have in 2009. So we detained during time, maybe for early three, four years, and later again, the investors start becoming again to Costa Rica.
But they just keep like going, you know, like into hacker, Tamarindo, other areas mostly from Ana, Augusta, you know, from the Pacific, from the North Pacific and mainly Central Pacific. But in the two in, in the 2021 and 22, we all this COVID issue, you know, people start. Coming to Costa Rica from other different, uh, countries because mainly we, we have like, you know, like you, people from United States come here from Canada, uh, even from Central America, even from South America.
But now Europe become like, Hey, we need to go to Costa Rica because other countries like Thailand, like Philippines, like, uh, Indonesia, you know, like going to Bali, these countries, even Hong Kong, Singapore was closed, right? So we become like, okay, I just wanna go to [00:07:00] another jungle country. In other part of the world it could be like Thailand.
So people for the other side of the world start coming to Costa Rica and say, Hey, what is this? This is a big jungle here. It it feels like, Hey, we can go there over. And obviously we was like, we are more expensive than all these other countries, but still we are like cheaper than even United States, right?
And even than Europe. So for this new tourists that start becoming, you know, with the, with the new wave of the COVID, you know, to Costa Rica, they start realizing that, Hey, I just wanna buy a property in Costa Rica. So people that are used to do like, uh, in well are investors that have like big building projects, you know, like, um, like real estate left for bigger in United States, like from Los Angeles, from Miami, you know, from Detroit.
You know, people that really know how to do houses, you know, in United States. Yeah. But Mailing Moines, you know, like, they're like [00:08:00] different came in artists in Costa Rica, they say, okay. We can do the same in Costa Rica. So they start like buying all m Santa Teresa,
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Walter Brenes: Puerto Tojo, uh, mainly even more nearest from ku, you know.
So all these areas that know was like the usual, uh, areas that was from investors, you know, from people from coming from other countries were buying and started realiz that hey, we need to sell. So for example, in just two years, the 100% of the properties, one hands of Costa Ricans in Santa Teresa was sold, was like.
Like, all these people you say we're gonna sell. So they started like getting, realizing that them, you know, like the square meters in Costa Rica was like getting up and up, right? So they start like, okay, now we're gonna become, uh, like a villa town, you know, because it's not re for example, this is where I live.
They become like, okay, let's do some villas. Villas and villas and villas. One, two, 3 million US dollars just put in there for a villa. [00:09:00] So now we have a little villas and we don't have tourists, right? But because we don't have tourists, and this is super important for people to understand in Costa Rica, because people are no more tourists.
They're living here now. So we changed, now we're, we don't have tourists because people just realized that I just wanna live in Costa Rica. Could be like, uh, expensive, but it's more secure than the United States is, uh, more secure and maybe you feel like better in this big jungle than just know being like Europe during the winter.
So we are like warm during all the year. We have waves all the year. We have like warm water, we have jungles, we have volcanos, we have like a, a good weather. We don't have an army. So people start coming to Costa Rica and say, I just wanna buy a property. But what is the main problem here? They don't respect Costa Rica as that essence and the culture that we have.
So from your understanding, all my [00:10:00] clients here in the area that are like 99% for. From different countries, from different cultures. So my kind for saying like the Costa Rican, they're just like going up to the mountains to terrains that is more like cheaper than the area that is next to the coastline because now there is another two big problems.
And this is like the biggest explanation about what's going in Pavones you know, because it is like Pa Costa Rica. There is like this kinda agenda about like people just coming out, living here in Costa Rica and getting up with, obviously with the leases, you know, like renting is super high prices. Uh, paying for a vehicle is super high Prices like food, restaurants, you know, all the service around is getting higher prices right now.
So what it's gonna be, well, people from Costa Rica, they just wanna need to move to other areas that is no. So like there's more cheaper than this area right now. So while the last. I say like the la the last standing man [00:11:00] in Costa Rica, you know, like their last original community in Costa Rica that was standing was Pavones So that's the main reason because people start saying like, Hey, what's going on in Pavones What are you doing against Pavones Because we, as Costa Rica, we know that Pavones was in control from just from Costa Ricans. You know, like the 90% of the terrains there are from Costa Ricans. So that's the main reason because people start like, Hey, what's going out there?
You know, because we are like fighting maybe in Santa Teresa we know the Tamarindo is like even like nearest than being in Miami, you know? So,
Tyler: it's,
Walter Brenes: and it's okay because we know that people just wanna go to Jaco because they find more enter tournament in Jaco or they, they can just go surfing even. Uh, or they just wanna go to some mardo because they maybe feel like, okay, it's more like.
More like in the way that it goes in the United States. Right? But Santa Teresa for example, even Nosara and other places, there is [00:12:00] more like, uh, jungle and more quiet. So there's like more people with more money coming here and just for buying properties, right? So Pnis have this big difference. One 90% of the properties, they're West Costa Ricans.
So when, and, and this is like the other, uh, like, like the second term that is good to know. It's like a con for surfers, you know, it's like the big nation for surfers. So first you are attacking directly the cultural Costa Rica second, and it's like one next to the other one. You are attacking the surfer community.
And also, I know, you know this term, but like, being a a waterman means that you love going fishing, for example, like ocean, the water, and also surfing. So there are a lot, there is a community of fishermen there, you know, families that really live from [00:13:00] going out just for fishing. Right. And there's like another community that's just for surfing and there's like, the community, the community.
They even have kids and say like, okay, for us it's like when they're like, when, when as soil is coming, yeah. Community is gonna be making money, but like in, in a different perspective. You know, it's like going to the century, you know, it's like even going for, you know, it's like for Catholic, for a, like having his own church, you know, like going to Roma maybe.
Uh, for us going to Pavona is like a century, right? So that's the reaction of the people is saying, Hey, don't get into PAVs and don't change PAVs. Because for us it is like a century and maybe that's biggest explanation when I say, Hey, why so many people get involved in this and why so many people is like realizing this what's going on in PAVs.
It's just because that, because when swell comes, people really want to go to Pav because they feel that it's like the [00:14:00] century.
Tyler: Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a pilgrimage, you know, to go there, almost
Walter Brenes: So that's maybe like the biggest explanation about like what's going out really in Costa Rica. And maybe that's, that's the question. What's going out in Costa Rica? What's going on Bannis? So for me, you know, because obviously there is a little oft because like supporting the, this big fight, but in the other hand there is a lot of people that really love Pavon and they're like living there and they're for different so many cultures and they're saying like, Hey, I just wanna stay in Pavona at the way that it is.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Walter Brenes: Right? So, um, today I was in our interview with the president from the community, you know, we have here in Costa Rica that there's like the association that is composed by the people from the, from, from the community, right? You, you don't need to be Costa Rican for be part of Daddy, but there is like that representative of a community and we was talking about this like [00:15:00] his name is Liston.
Liston. Do you remember like. Any day that someone just call, call you and say, Hey, you wanna get like a new road in Poona? You wanna get apartments in Poona, you wanna get the internet in Poona, you wanna get like whatever new in Poona. And he say, me, no, never. Because no one asks that you move to Poona.
They just wanna change. They're like, get into this. You need to be changed. Forced to be changed. And that's cruelty, you know, that's going after a community, like pursuing a community and going into economies way.
Tyler: Yeah. Well, it,
Walter Brenes: that's the problem.
Tyler: feels like Costa Rica is this, um. You know, I think it, what you're experiencing is what a lot of people are experiencing in a lot of parts of the world where capitalism has really kind of, you know, people are being pushed out of neighborhoods all over, even here in the us. [00:16:00] Like I live in New York and there's so many people who can't afford to live here anymore because the wealthy, the uber wealthy, have bought up all the properties and they have controlled everything, and they don't let the local people have a say in what the development is anymore, and the special interests, you know, pay off the politicians and pay off all the, the administrations and promise all these things, and.
It ends up like hurting the community and, and replacing the community almost. And it's this, uh, this colonialism that, that has just run, run wild. I think, you know, in capitalism too, that's unchecked has created this, this, this problem where, where the rich can just do whatever they want and push people out.
And I, that is what I see there is just, it's, it's totally, it's something that I see happening everywhere in lots of places. And it, it's really, uh, what you guys are doing, I think is helping to show a lot of other people how to fight and how to [00:17:00] resist, which I think is really important. I, I was hoping we could, uh, dive into briefly, um, a bit of the history around Ponas.
Before we get into the legality of everything, 'cause I know there's like a very unique history there with, um, you know, from indigenous tribes that were some of the first to settle there to, uh, you know, the character Dan Foley, who is the surfer who apparently bought up a lot of the land in the seventies.
And I was hoping you can kind of give a little bit of background on the history of, of Pav to, to our listeners.
Walter Brenes: It is important, and this is super important, Tyler, I know the people is talking about this gringo guy that just come to Po Bon Viol land, but that's like talking about like Cristo Co Colon and America, you know? It's like, okay, that's the perspective for real. That's the perspective that you wanna talk about.
Pomona. [00:18:00] Hey, I just wanna told you the truth. When Crito Colon just come to America. Uh, we was there.
Tyler: Yeah.
Walter Brenes: Hi. I'm,
Tyler: And had everything he needed.
Walter Brenes: yeah. So, uh, hi. Hi. Uh, how gringo, uh, we was here, you know, so that's the false statement. You know, that's the false statement about like a gringo destroying pav. That's false. Costa Ricans was living there seven years ago, was the originals family that was Costa Ricans.
They was living there. This guy just come and he obviously, he, he just look about that and hey, this is the paradise. You know, obviously he buys some land down here, you know, but that doesn't mean that he was like the discovering Proponic
Tyler: No,
Walter Brenes: there, right? So it's important that, um, this is something that I was talking, you know, with another guy like Eric.
Um. [00:19:00] You know, friend of mine, I say, Hey, white people always talk about PAVs, about this Greeno guy coming here. Uh, this is our country. We need to tell this story about like original families. You know, for example, one of my best friends here, you know, like, he's like a big fighter. He in PAVs, uh, his name is Chica.
So Gabriel is one of the originals family. His grandfather just come 70 years ago just for working in the area. And this is the reality about like at least 10 families that they just come like, you know, like before this gringo coming to ps
Tyler: The, the, the name was the, the nbi, right? The community. The n Gobi. Maybe I'm pronunciation it.
Walter Brenes: That's, oh, that's something important. Also in that area, there was, well it is, uh, one of the biggest community, like for indigenous people in Costa Rica. So. At some point I'm like feeling [00:20:00] like, Hey, what are you saying to me that, uh, gringo owns bans? No, there was, there was like a, from, you know, like 100 years, 200, no more than that.
I'm talking about like hundred of years. There was an indigenous community there. So why you are telling me that you need to go, like, just go back so many years ago, um, this is important because we didn't talk about this, but I'm a litigation lawyer. Um, I have this, um, camera practice that I told, like environmental and community, uh, first.
So I just go litigation with the humanities just for protecting their, you know, resources and the community and the environmental around. So I've been doing this in Hacka. I've been doing this in Santa, in Mardo, all Puerto, you know, I'm doing this around the, the country. You know, I have a little
Tyler: So you're like a folk hero now.
Walter Brenes: Yeah. Well, people say that I'm the rainmaker.
Tyler: I love it, man.
Walter Brenes: So I'm just trying to protect my [00:21:00] country and my people, you know, at some point, you know, I'm not like Simone, you know, because I didn't have a gun.
Tyler: Not yet anyway.
Walter Brenes: well, I'm, I'm super conscious about what's going on, you know, uh, obviously I, I do for a living like litigation, I go into argument cases, but I'm really concerned about my country because someday I'm gonna have kids here.
Like, I'm gonna say like, Hey, just remember that the legacy from your father was like, I was fighting for your country. So keep, keep the, the good fight, right? So this is something important that people need to understand here in Costa Rica, we have been in a big war, you know, we don't have an army, but we are fighting because our culture is being invaded by a lot of people that don't respect us.
You know, when, when you go, you know, for example, if I go to, I dunno. New York, obviously she have like this kind of accents from New York, right? So I don't [00:22:00] wanna start like talking and saying, I put Avid that to all the people around, you know, they're say that, Hey, whatcha saying
Tyler: Well, you say how you doing instead.
Walter Brenes: Yeah bro. You know, something like that.
But so when people just come here and even, you know, like someone is coming and say, Hey, why you don't try to speak Spanish? You're in a country that we speak in Spanish, you know, so people start feeling like, Hey, you are being no respectful about even our language and Right. So that's the game of problems that we have in right now.
Uh, obviously one of the biggest problems that we as humanity have, you know, like this is worthwhile, is corruption. And corruption is related to money. And money is corruption. Is corruption by, by itself. You know, so, and even I was, because this is important, Tyler also because I say this public, you know.
My, you know, myself personally, I have like, uh, this campaign against the mayor of Go [00:23:00] Vito, like for real, because I'm impressed that he had been like 15 years in that area, you know, like working in different kind of positions in the municipality. And he's still serial crimes, serial, serial, serial, everything.
You know, like the, the biggest, the biggest and more, um, more important mayor in the area, you know, and he never get into trouble. So I was like, how is possible that someone that has been in this area doing this, you know, like fighting his own community. It's like, just welcome free without know any problem.
So I started getting, Hey, you have any information, just representing any cases against the mayor, just contact me, you know, and people just contact me, you know, like sending me information, like saying, Hey Walter, please don't say my name, but I have this for you. So this is like getting into a way that, and say people is scared to talk. It's, it's scary just for defending their rights because right now we are like, even almost saying like invading, you know, like my [00:24:00] country with money, you know, with people that just wanna say, okay, uh, in United States, everything is going, you know, like super bad. That is not true. But people think, you know, from that way, from politics.
Tyler: I mean it's, we got our issues, but everywhere does, so,
Walter Brenes: Yeah. Well, you know, everywhere I have their issues, you know, that they're like, just that, just for putting money here, you know, I'm not supporting no one, you know, because it's not my country, as I say, always this like, I wanna start talking about United States because it's not my country. You know? I can maybe I can have like a better like, uh, you know, like, I like, like an opinion about that.
But it's, but it's not my country, so I cannot say anything because I'm country, right? So people just coming here, like taking decisions in my own country, like say, Hey, you, just because you are buying a property, you cannot make decisions here. Because it's thinking a fair for, you know, it's, it's like, it's like issues that need to be resolved by the Costa Ricans.
Right? So at some point I feel like going back into like the prehistoric [00:25:00] age, you know, like you are no native, so you cannot make decisions, you know, people is getting into that. Like, they're like, you're really getting mad about people that is coming here, just not being respectful, you know?
Tyler: Who, so who is the mayor of GoTo? Who is this person that, that we, you guy you're dealing with? What, what, what type of character is he? Who, what's his name and what is, what is his plans for the area? What does he want to see happen?
Walter Brenes: Yeah. Well that's, that's a good question. You know, because I, I know his name, obviously. I know that he knows mine too. His name is Premier Lara Blanco. Uh, he have been like in some different kind of powerful positions from the last 50 years. Um, he's saying, yeah. So when you have like a politic, they have been in the area for the last 15 years, you know how it goes.
Right?
Tyler: Does he come from a, a wealthy [00:26:00] family? Has he,
Walter Brenes: I dunno his history, I only know that he had been there for the last 15 years making decisions in different positions. Um, I don't, I can only say this like a general statement about him. Uh, this is like my new coach just for going to work, you know, against him. Like,
Tyler: Fair enough.
Walter Brenes: yeah, fair enough. No, it's about,
Tyler: enough.
Walter Brenes: yeah, no, I'm just saying like, if you are a leader, you need to make decision in favor of your community.
If you don't respect your community, you cannot be a leader. This is the quote that describes him like, Hey, you are not a good leader because you are not listed in your community. Your plans don't, is don't, don't, don't, don't mix your personal plans with the community plans because in we don't need a new road.
We don't need big buildings, we don't need anything. We are okay in poon. We are like better than no [00:27:00] one in other artists in Costa Rica because we really wanna keep Pagon in that way. Right. So that's it.
Tyler: I, I, I, so like what happened then? So what, like, from what I read, there was like a, a plan drawn up for, for Pavona in like 2004, and then they just decided to implement the plan now, like, can you give us a little bit of backstory, like what has actually been happening with this development?
Like, how, how did it come about and, and, and what, was it a surprise to people? Or did they give any warning?
Walter Brenes: Well, I'm just gonna give you like a, like example, you know, like
Tyler: yeah.
Walter Brenes: you have kids.
Tyler: No, I have cats.
Walter Brenes: Okay. Well maybe you're, yeah. Well, just, just, just for your, you know, for simplify what is gonna, one is, you know, when, when you have a kid, you [00:28:00] know, you give, you give like ions and like a paper, right? So that plan for the 2004, this master plan is like giving ions, um, a blank paper to, to a kid like, and uh, they're like, okay, this is gonna be like the commercial area.
This there are no any explanation because there was no any signs behind that plan,
Tyler: No research,
Walter Brenes: no research, no anything. They was just like, okay, I think that this is gonna be the commercial area. So, and I'm really saying that, you know, like it's just, just give a kids ions and you know, like even like a pencil and it's gonna be like, okay, this is gonna be, you know, so that's not possible.
Even every five years is needed to be like, you know, like reviewing the plan. You know, we, we are gonna say this is like the master plan, you know, like just for the planification of the community. Right. [00:29:00] Um, right now. And this, this is seriously what I wanna explain, you know, so just think about like roads in your, like in your community, right?
So this roads obviously have been construction by the government, you know, like from the, I know from the department of the construction of the, of the roads, whatever, right? So in Pavon, the mayor is saying that the roads, that the way that is right now, like physical existence is not in that way. So they need to move five meters from the reality or the real roads that we have right now, because this, uh, master plan from 20 years ago says that the roads don't go, like, here is go like here.
So these five meters is like, I'm, I'm saying this like seriously, you know, like, hey mayor, your, so just from my understanding, you know, like me, Walter Brennan. So you are saying that the community just moved the roads, [00:30:00] uh, because you know, I cannot believe that, you know, I know that you municipality, you know, like the municipality, government, they was the one building the roads.
So how is possible that they're saying like, Hey, so you're saying that the roads just go like in a different ways, you know, like, uh, how is possible that if you want the one building that roads even, they're like putting materials and just putting money into that roads and now they're saying, no, we are gonna change the road.
So the, the new road here in Costa Rica bylaw, you need to have roads for 40 meters, right? Like these height. Now the road in Pones is gonna be 28. We are gonna have like a highway in POIs.
Tyler: Wow.
Walter Brenes: And that's that discussion. So when I was presenting, you know, my legal actions, one of the most [00:31:00] important action that I'm doing is like saying, okay, you need to change the master plan because this master plan don't represent the community, right? Because that master plan that you have is for big investors.
And we don't have big investors in PAVs. We have communities in Pavana, you know, like people that just wanna keep fishing there, they just wanna go surfing. So you need to respect the community. And that's, that's the issue here. Like, hey, more than the road is saying like, okay, we need to go into that psychologist part of the communities like saying, okay, we wanna keep Avan in this way.
So why you as a government? Gu because Pav, um, geographical is part of Gu Vito. Why you are trying to change Pav if we don't wanna be changed? So that's, that's the biggest point here. Why the politics wanna change PAVs? Who is gonna be the one winning here? Well, the people, they just [00:32:00] gonna put money there.
Tyler: It is, it's interesting. I was reading about this and it looks like there are two development companies that are involved. Uh, one of them is called Mono Blanco developers. I believe
Walter Brenes: I don't know the names of the developers, but I know that one of the companies is Ola de and the other one is not like Pavan Point.
Tyler: Okay.
Walter Brenes: from my understanding, these companies are for, for range people. It's not like TKOs, you know.
Tyler: No, it's, it's weird, like, 'cause uh, like one of the websites for one of them, they have the, the Mono Blanco developers, they, they talk about on their website is all about pavona and development, and they have like profiles of all these people who are supposedly with the company and they're like, they seem like they're locals.
Some of them, like one of them says, I was born here and another says this. And so I'm, I'm curious, like, then are there, are there actual real locals who [00:33:00] are, who are for this
Walter Brenes: No, I wanna say you this either. Uh, I really like history. You know, I read a lot about history. Uh, do you know that the Mexicans, you know, was defeated by, you know, like the colonists from Spain because they go all eyes with, with other indigenous people, just for quiet Mexicans, you know, just for, for conquering Mexico.
So this is weird because it's going on in all Costa Rica. So. These people just come and start like realizing that they need locals, you know, so they hire locals and they give like percents. They pay just for working for them. So obviously these people are for the town, but they're working for these people because they're being paid.
Tyler: Do do the, did the
Walter Brenes: like,
Tyler: like know who these people are?
Walter Brenes: apart also, you know, with all this Pat about like, we're going conquer. All right. So because he really believe in like [00:34:00] one French, right? And here in Costa Rica we have people that are not like Patrick people, you know, they just wanna change from the other side and saying like they're going to the dark side, you know, like, like Star Wars, right?
Like you go to the dark
Tyler: You're speaking to a Star Wars nerd here, so you're speaking my
Walter Brenes: Okay. Amazing. So just you can understand that like how it's possible that or Jet Jedi are going to the dark side. It's just like that Costa Ricans are just defeating his son, you know, like kind, just for making money. So for me it's like,
Tyler: lo,
Walter Brenes: like
Tyler: but like I, I would imagine there would be blowback though, right? Like, wouldn't there be like a, those people, how could they walk around town then, you know, like how, how can they, like, I would feel so ashamed, you know? That's so weird.
Walter Brenes: I remember a client saying to me like, money talks, either that's it. Um, it's [00:35:00] super sad to say, you know, but here in Costa Rica now money talks. Um, they're like just a, you know, we are like, we are people that really respect our people, you know, because this is the way that Costa Rica goes. You know, I remember my grandmother always say, Hey, you need to be respectful, super respectful with people.
I, good morning, good afternoon. Yes, sir. No, sir. You know that. Being respectful here. You know, I'm, I'm, and be kind with people. That's the Costa Rican kind, like being, be super nice with people, you know, but there is like something going on there that people is like just going to the other side, right? It's like upside down because they're saying I'm making money.
Um, saying like, uh, just for your reference, you're saying that you're making money and that you are your own boss, but you are not your own boss and you're not making money. You are selling your country. And one day when someone just go to, you know, to you [00:36:00] and say, what is your legacy in Costa Rica? Uh, well I was one of the, of the origins of the province in PAVs because I was part of that big issue about like making bigger PAVs.
It's like making great PAVs, you know, people are saying that it's. We don't need like making nothing bigger or even better because Pav is great what it is. So that's the main problem. They're not gonna have any legacy. The legacy is gonna say like, I was the one like getting into the other side just for development pavoni.
And that's super sad. You know, like this kind of people, they're gonna listen to me, Hey, I just wanna say to you that I feel super sorry about you because they're not gonna have anything to talk to their other grandsons. Even like you saw PO URA right
Tyler: S so what, uh, what are like some of the plans they want to do in the area? Like what? It's, it's just luxury, [00:37:00] uh, uh, uh, luxury environmentally, quote unquote environmentally friendly eco.
Walter Brenes: here in Costa Rica. The Joggy are the new, the new, I don't know what to say, you know? I, yeah, I don't do, I don't do yoga. It's not my cat. Whatever. I prefer to go to the ocean. I'm a surfer. Uh, so for me, it's like, I don't understand Jogi here because they're like coming and say, no, I'm being super respectful for, you know, with the forest.
And they're like taking down trees just from making like decks. So it's like, for real, you're a jockey. So it's just about luxury, you know? Right now you wanna understand what is gonna be the future for pro Bonis. They keep doing this, you know, because we are gonna fight Tyler. Believe me, I'm a fighter and this is gonna be street fighter with the mayor, believe me, because we're not gonna let these people win.
But you wanna have like, just like a, a small [00:38:00] reference about the new Pavon. It's gonna be Pav point. There's like big apartments, sir, even going into night and just say like, what is that? You know, like. What is that? You know, like, they're like apartments, like, like being like, I don't know, like in Santa Monica, United States going there, there is apartments here, you know, like in, in Santa Monica, you know, so, I don't know.
They just wanna do like the, the new Malibu dump side in Pav because it looks like that, you know, like you go like there to the beach, but there is like big buildings in the other side. So PA Point is the reference. They're gonna go to luxuries, they're gonna sell the land, and obviously, and more than the 50% of the people that is gonna buy that, there are no like locals.
And they're no like, like Tecos?
Tyler: Where, where do, are there any plans for housing and for places of locals to live in this plan at
Walter Brenes: No, no. The plant right now, and this is, this is [00:39:00] the main reason because this has become personal against the mayor. His plan is like getting out all the locals, 100% locals. They're saying, no, it's illegal. Your houses are illegal. Your houses are illegal. We're gonna do demolition. But he, he's, he's like, into demolitions.
I'm just putting new people there and you know who is gonna be the new people. Right. Investors?
Tyler: Well, it's gonna be a lot of white people from the west, from the US and stuff probably,
Walter Brenes: I, I don't have any problems with white, white people,
Tyler: no, no. I know, I know that. I just, you know, it's, I have the problem with, uh,
Walter Brenes: but it's gonna be like, uh, you know, that area is sacred. Uh, and this is important that you understand this also, Tyler, even for the people that are listening to us, um, that indigenous communities in Costa Rica during winter, they just live in the mountains. And during, during, during summer, they just go [00:40:00] to the coast.
Uh, just because when, when people die during winter, they just go after, you know, to the sacred places during the coastline. So that's the main reason because when Crystal Co Colon just come to Costa Rica, you know, from, is like that, is located in the Caribbean side. He used to stay from that Iceland. He never chose Costa Rica.
You know, he, he never come to the Continental Park Costa Rica, but he was just there. Um, a and, and this is important, you know why Costa Rica, the name is Costa Rica because Christo co colon from the Is Lari that right now is la is Luta for the surfers. They know who is, is where is Ista.
Tyler: Of course.
Walter Brenes: Exactly. So from East Luta, they used to be name, it is from the indigenous people.
He was just from the Ocean Park, you know, and he just was seeing all indigenous people like that was in the coastline. And here in Costa Rica, we don't have gold, but we have like haddi, right? Just like a super precious, uh, uh, metal. Well, it's more [00:41:00] like a rock. And with the sun it reflects so crystal from the ocean sky, he's, he saw that and say, whoa, this is a Costa Rica.
You know, like, like,
Tyler: The rich
Walter Brenes: like a rich coast. Exactly. So that's important because that's the, you know, there was like 500 years ago we're still like, like the same people just come here and say, wow, this is gold. You know, this is a gold mine. Um, when you start like traveling a lot, you know, like, uh, internal flights, you know, we started realizing how much forest we have in Costa Rica.
Tyler: Oh, it's insane.
Walter Brenes: you know? So that's maybe the main reason because our politics, you know, didn't understand what is the, what is the biggest way to, to produce money in Costa Rica is taking care of all the environmental part, taking care of all the communities, because people really love getting into Costa Rican community and say, Hey, and we local, this is funny.
You know, like, hey, the way that it goes. [00:42:00] But now the locals is going like, Hey, I'm gonna fight you. You know, I, I know you have been in Bali,
Tyler: Oh, yeah. Uh, years ago. Not, not in any time
Walter Brenes: now you go into the water and the BS people that are like, the surfers that are like sharks against you. And you know why? Because I really understand that people, because I, I'm living the same here in Costa Rica because white people, I, you say, I, you were saying something like, for people it's saying like, I just wanna surf and say, Hey, I was first here, you know.
And, and, and you're not being respectful with me. So the rules in the surfing world is like the best way to explain how really need to go into the real world. Like you need to be respectful with people. You are in the peak, you are the one going into the wa, into the wave, right? But in the real life, people is not respecting that.
Tyler: No, I, I [00:43:00] sometimes wonder like how much the, um, like surf. Retreat experience has almost ruined how surfers used to travel. Like, uh, I grew up reading how, you know, surfers would travel and you would travel light. You wouldn't travel in a big group and you would try to really get in with the locals and respect them and understand and, you know, be changed from the experience.
And I feel like over the last 20, 30 years with surf retreats and resorts and all of these things, and, and that's not all of them. I'm not cri criticizing all of them, but many of them create this insulated experience where you don't, uh, interact too much with the community. You don't get to meet and, and spend time with locals.
You're isolated. And then the only time you get to see a local maybe is in the water. And then you, you think, I just bought this trip so I'm entitled to this wave or [00:44:00] whatever. Instead of understanding, like, you gotta put it in your time and you have to be respectful. And I, I sometimes wonder like if these types of places and places that could potentially that they wanna build in PAVs are gonna create these isolated experiences where surfers don't learn about the people and the culture and the communities.
You know? And that's why I used to travel is for that reason. Like the wave, the surfing was secondary.
Walter Brenes: exactly. If you're going to a surface spot, like one of the biggest, you know, because the, the first long ride, you know, like, um, there is no pones is in Peru. Uh, it's cold water, so that means that we can be the second one, but we have warm, warm water. So that's changed a lot and people are different here.
It's more like into the culture. So Absolutely. I'm fully agree with you. Um, I'm really concerned, you know, because right now even, uh, you know, [00:45:00] being a surfer is being a different kind of human. For sure. We are like more connected with the ocean. We're more connected to dirt and we're more connected even to people, you know, because we are like more into protecting, right?
Because we're for the ocean, right? So we feel like protecting
Tyler: we're supposed to be,
Walter Brenes: but yeah, it's supposed to be. So you're connected to that. And one day, uh, people that are not like, so surfers, because that's different. You can be a surfer, but what is your sole surfer, right? So they're like going into, I just wanna buy a property here, just here in front.
You know? And that's not that the way that it goes, you know, you wanna be there. You're, you know, like the surfer never have a house. That's the rule. You don't have a house. You are surfing around the world, right? So why you wanna buy a house in front of a place that is better? You just come and travel like every one time per year,
Tyler: Yeah.
Walter Brenes: So I fully agree [00:46:00] with you. I'm, I'm really concerned about like, losing even our culture also, you know, like if PA is just going into this, we're gonna loss our culture for sure.
Tyler: it, well, that's the other thing. It's like, I mean, you have so many people from other, other places coming there and putting their, their culture into it as well, and not respecting the local culture. And I, I guess like, it's such a difficult thing to fight, you know? It's really, and, and I'm curious, like, what are some of the steps that you're taking to try to fight this initiative and, and what sort of, uh, laws are you able to use to help protect this community? The culture.
Walter Brenes: Yeah. Well, right now I can say to you that I have like at least. 10 big fights. The one the most important even for our communities, you know, from, from the surfers community is in play in Haku. We're protecting the wet lines. And [00:47:00] this has been like a big fight I have since 2016.
Tyler: Wow.
Walter Brenes: one that maybe no one never realized about this, you know, what is salsa Brava in Puerto?
Tyler: Yes.
Walter Brenes: Well we fight back because they wanna do a marina there. Yeah, we won this like three years ago. I was there in the front line, like saying like, Hey, how is possible that I wanna, that I gonna destroy salsa Brava just for doing marina in the middle of the reef. So. The other one that is super important is in East Los Modern Antonio, they was trying to do like a big building, you know, like 15 floors.
I was like, what are you gonna do that in modern Antonio? Modern Antonio only have like hotels for two, three floors at least. So that culture, we are fighting that. Why do you wanna have like a big building here? We're not in Los Angeles, you know, we're not even in Hong Kong. You wanna have like that, you can go to Hong Kong, you wanna have a big floor building, you know, [00:48:00] so, and even Santa Dures, I have a little fights here because we are fighting, you know, for growing, you know, for all the communities growing without destroying all the forests.
Uh, so there is like going after that. And then Po Bon is, is the new one that we are really fighting that.
Tyler: Are there any movements in Costa Rica to limit visas and how people acquire, uh, you know, the visas there?
Walter Brenes: Yeah, they're like, they're, they're a group. They can be named like the Rebels, something like that. Because obviously some people are not understanding what's going on, so they feel that we are like crazy people like fighting, like investments and everything. But it's maybe the, because they don't realize, and some people here in Costa Rica never travel, so then they have like, you know, like worldwide acknowledgement, you know, for example, I almost 50 countries.
Um, so I really know what something's changing, you know, because I'm being other countries that sees like that, you know, [00:49:00] like I used to travel 20, 20 years ago to United States, so I'm like, okay, I don't remember like Los Angeles being like this right now. So something like that is like, you really feel that because you come like every year, you know, to any other.
Tyler: Mm-hmm.
Walter Brenes: Places, you know, even going to, going to other countries around, so, so America, you know, like Brazil, Argentina, UY. So you start realizing what's going on with people. Just saying like, I don't wanna stay here in winter time. I wanna go to Costa Rica, I wanna go to Costa Rica. So people from, from, nor from North America, I'm from South America, and saying like, I don't wanna stay like in the north and don't wanna stay in the South.
And people in Europe say, Hey, winter is super heavy here. Especially people from Finland, from Norway, you know, like from Sweden, they say like, Switzerland, we live in boring countries. Let's go to Costa Rica. People really say that I'm, I'm, I'm really feeling that because no, I'm, I'm being in Denmark and like saying like, okay, this is super boring country [00:50:00] here.
I cannot break any rule because I can go to jail. So. That's a reason because people is moving to Costa Rica because we are warm people, we are different and we have rules, but sometimes rules doesn't exist when you have a good time here. So maybe's that the way, because people is saying, I don't wanna be a tourist, I wanna live in Costa Rica, but can be rude living here also.
That's different. It's not the same Being a tourist that living in Costa Rica, I always say that to my clients, Hey, you sure you wanna get a property? You wanna here be living here the full year? Be careful because you're gonna start rising in the Costa Rica. It's not like the same being a tourist that living here, it's a, it is a country, you know, we are a country that, for being a tourist is amazing, but for living can be super rude with orange people.
Tyler: It could be really difficult, I imagine.
Walter Brenes: Yeah.
Tyler: What, so do you think that there's a, any potential that they could limit the visas [00:51:00] for people
Walter Brenes: Oh yeah, that's, yeah. There is two different, like, big groups that Gen uh, and Costa Rica, they're like two big groups. They're working in this and they're like presenting, um, um, some projects for changing law, you know, because right now we have like, the visa around that is super normal here. And Costa Rica,
Tyler: across in Nicaragua or wherever
Walter Brenes: you go one day, go to Nicaragua, and the same day you can go back to Costa Rica.
So you can stay the full year without know anything. Uh, so they're like working in changing the laws, but it's gonna take time. Um, mainly, uh, we are having some issues because Costa Rica, you know, economics right now is not like the best, you know. Even for the tourists, because we're not receiving the same tourists from the last year.
So everything is changing around it's, and it's not just Costa Rica, it's just around the world. You know? It's all the count, all the countries around the world is getting complicated and super [00:52:00] complicated. So people is just like keeping the money in the pockets maybe right now. And other people is saying, oh, we need to go, like, do some investments, you know?
And I don't know, it's, it's like the time for doing investments right now. So maybe, um, we are like in some kind of goals, uh, economy right now, like just getting into, um, liking us. Like, like, like going down into economy, you know, like people deflection maybe people don't, don't wanna spend too much, they don't wanna take too much risk right now.
So we're suffering here in Costa Rica. But with that, you know, people is really concerned right now, not just about Pavan, it's just about that, hey, what's gonna be the next year with tourists? Because right now we're in low season, right?
Tyler: Yeah.
Walter Brenes: example, I can go to a restaurants address and it's gonna be like, okay, all the restaurant is for me.
You
Tyler: well, how, how, um, how much does tourism make up of the Costa Rican economy? Like [00:53:00] it it's really significant.
Walter Brenes: significant. Yeah, super significant. Maybe not for the, for the full country, but for the coastlines. You know, like all the North Pacific Center, Pacific, uh, south Pacific Caribbean side is super important because we live from, from tourists here, so it's super significant. Maybe for the big numbers for Costa Rica, they're not like the biggest, uh, numbers.
But for the rural and from the coastline, it is the most important, uh, industry, you know, like ju.
Tyler: There are like, I guess like how, like what, one of the things like I've, I've had lots of conversations with, with, uh, other people who, like, like our friend Tara, um, you know, uh, Ruttenberg is like models that can help protect the community and like in terms of like limiting how many tourists can [00:54:00] come into an area or, uh, limiting the amount of resources that come into an area, like limiting like a lot of the, the over, um, development even, you know, is that something that it, that Costa Ricans want is like, do you think that's an op, a way that they can help to protect their communities but also still have tourism, but keep it in check.
I, I wonder what the model looks like where you could still make money off tourism, but not fully exploit it either.
Walter Brenes: Yeah. For. You know, me as a lawyer, I can see you, that the law is not gonna be, you know, like control ization, like creating new laws is, is, is not gonna make any change because at the end of the road, people is gonna try to find a way to step forward and just find a way to don't respect the law at some point.
You know? So it's about people. You know, Tyler, and I'm, I'm saying this for, you know, like super honest with you right [00:55:00] now. People need to start getting into why, why we're doing this. You know, like, because it's, it's about the people, because we have laws that's super protective with the communities and even with the environmental part.
Um, we have like Josh's here, we have like the prosecutor office, we have, we have a super strong legal system. But people is not respecting the law here. And obviously because we don't have an army, we don't have an old police, we don't have an all like our houses maybe. So maybe people is committing crimes and just because no one find out that there is like a crime or they don't find out who, who was the one doing that, uh, people is continuing to destroying everything.
So it's about the people. And this is like a call for the people. Like, Hey, if you're coming to Costa Rica, please first you need to know who are, you know who, who are the people that are living in Costa Rica, who are the Costa Ricans? Because if you're coming here just for destroying the [00:56:00] country and you're not getting involved with the culture and you're sort of protecting all culture, because we really love Costa Rica, you know, we really protect Costa Rica, the Costa Rica's like that.
So you are not gonna be happy here because you're bringing your destruction to our country. So maybe it's about the people even, you know, uh, and this is gonna sound like, like jokey. It's like, hey, people need to review themselves because that's a big problem. You can create regulations, you can create new laws, but hey, why you're doing that?
You have a family, for example, you know, like why you're destroying a country, why you're coming here with your kids, and saying like, no, it's like get just French. You know, like French, French fries and hamburgers
Tyler: Hamburgers and that's it. And pizza and
Walter Brenes: what about, yeah. What about like trying like the Costa Rican food? We have like amazing, difficult food.
I know now we go to this bigger brand or hamburgers. We go to this chicken brown, you know, [00:57:00] like getting into. Too much information. Hey, we are like in a country that have the, his own culture. Even with the fruit, for example. I'm just gonna give you like the last example. That is something that I always say here in Costa Rica, we have like a fe, it's like the coffee that's like prepared, like different way, like in Artisan way.
And when I go to a place and Hey, can I have a cafe? They say like, uh, Americano. I'm like, uh, no. I wanna have a, you know, like a cafe to, so even our restaurants are not giving that coffee.
Tyler: Wow.
Walter Brenes: They're using machines. So we are lost in that. We're losing that, you know, like, hey, why you are doing that? We're Costa Ricans.
So that's all this around the world going, you know, with the YouTubers with, uh, influence, you know, with the marketing, with the branding, with all the social media, we're [00:58:00] losing them. You know, we're losing all culture and we're losing the, you know, us as a human being, you know?
Tyler: To me, the, the influencer, the travel influencers, probably I. One of the worst inventions,
Walter Brenes: Yeah.
Tyler: you know,
Walter Brenes: know, because there is no magic about gonna a place.
Tyler: least
Walter Brenes: Yeah. Uh, it's like the surfers that just go, oh, I'm here in the sacred spot. Hey, don't say that. You're in the secure spot. That's for you. That's
Tyler: know
Walter Brenes: memories.
Tyler: it blows my mind. You know, like I
Walter Brenes: Don't say
Tyler: like you didn't mention
Walter Brenes: It's just memories. That's it. Go ahead.
Tyler: What, what do the, um, a lot of the expats who, who live in Pavone is, I know there's a, a good, a little community of, of, uh, expats.
Walter Brenes: And they're fighters too. Yeah. Uh, yeah. I cannot say the names, but they're like support. They're supporting
Tyler: they've been really, really supportive
Walter Brenes: They're getting support, you [00:59:00] know? Well, I can say him like, surfers, like, Le gonna go, my mom are gonna go
Tyler: Yes. Leon Glazer,
Walter Brenes: uh, and his family, you know, like they're like keeping, you know, like the sentence about po and even I know he, you know, like from, even from Derek, there is the Sam s father that he's saying, Walter, we are been coming here for the last more than 20 years and we really are appreciate Pavan the way that it is.
So you need something just for, keep this place going this way, just let us know.
Tyler: Yeah.
Walter Brenes: So they're like French, but they're like respecting Pavan.
Tyler: Well that, and that's the thing
Walter Brenes: because why you wanna become here and doing like apartments, condominiums, even, you know like
Tyler: you, that's the whole thing. You don't go there for that. You know, you, you go for the waves and you go for the, the experience and, and it's, it's, um. You know, I think for [01:00:00] listeners, for our listeners, like there's a right and a wrong way to, uh, move to a neighborhood or a community and, and you know, you, you, you don't have to go there.
Like you can go and move somewhere, but you gotta ingrain yourself into this community. You need to be involved, you need to learn the traditions, learn,
Walter Brenes: No.
Tyler: become part of the community.
Walter Brenes: If you come to POEs and you are part of the problem, no one's gonna say hi to you.
Tyler: Yeah.
Walter Brenes: maybe you're gonna, maybe you're a good person, but you're being, you are coming just for getting a property that have been like something that destroy us, us country or culture. No one's gonna say hi to you. So what are you gonna do that
Tyler: like we need to make like a, like a public service announcement video on etiquette for travel, you know?
Walter Brenes: these black mailing? You come to Poona and you try to stay in one of the apartments, we're not gonna let you surf.
Tyler: Yeah.
Walter Brenes: That's
Tyler: are, [01:01:00] so is this,
Walter Brenes: That's the surfer way, you know?
Tyler: you guys gonna start, start forming the, a dhue kind of, uh, over there
Walter Brenes: Yeah. That's it. You're staying there. No, you cannot surf here. Get outta the water
Tyler: go, go surf the, the inside
Walter Brenes: be and you know how surfers can be with that. You know, like you are not gonna be surfing in this spot Chow. Because you live in that fucking place that you destroy a community. So get out here and that's gonna be, people is gonna go in that way, believe me, because surfers is better than, than having an army.
Tyler: It's, it's true. Hey, I also, like, I heard that there are, you know, they wanna privatize the beach too. Is that, is that part of the, the development plan is
Walter Brenes: Yeah. They, they, they wanna close like the main entry to the point in Pav and they just wanna get out of the future months. That's the two [01:02:00] plans. No, no, no. Tyler, believe me, I'm really concerned because these people have like big plans for privatizing the point, you know, like the point that is where the, the place, the people just go.
They just wanna privatize that.
Tyler: Wow, wow,
Walter Brenes: You know, and they have the best spot and the best property there since two, since 2001. They have a concession loan until 2041. So we are gonna be fighting these people for the next 20 years.
Tyler: Uh, can you tell me about some of the people who've had their businesses and homes already demolished? Where are they now? What are they
Walter Brenes: They're leaving with other families. Yeah. They just move out of the town because they don't have money for and there and there is no houses there. You know, that's,
Tyler: Is there any warning or any sort of notification?
Walter Brenes: They just come with the machines and the police. More than 100 police [01:03:00] officers. Yeah.
Tyler: Holy shit.
Walter Brenes: Yeah. If someone tried to do something, you're gonna get be de detained. You know? It was like, uh, LA
Tyler: Yeah. Yeah.
Walter Brenes: something like that was like, you cannot be doing any real anything, you know.
Tyler: And these people now, like, like the, the, the supermarket, the people who own the supermarket, like that's their whole investment. And,
Walter Brenes: their lives there.
Tyler: and, and there was no compensation or anything from the government.
Walter Brenes: No. Now I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm fighting for that, obviously, but it's gonna take time, years, at least five, seven years to get the money back. Yeah,
Tyler: Do you, do you think that. The lawsuits will at least be able to keep the development at at bay and halt it. Do you think?
Walter Brenes: yeah. I'm, I'm sure that's my job. These, these people is gonna, yeah, these people is, is not gonna advance, [01:04:00] advance with me. I'm gonna detain that project. Believe me, I'm gonna put the mayor in jail too. I'm saying this is the people you know, because the
Tyler: Are you,
Walter Brenes: that you can de detain this is putting the mayor in jail.
Tyler: are you worried at all for your safety?
Walter Brenes: Well, this is something, you know, in another interview that I have, like one year ago, p um, you know, my friend that was like doing that interview for me, he say me the same for me, Tyler, you know, one day someone just tried to kill me. If someone killed me, I'm just gonna be happy to be doing, you know, the good, the best for my community.
If that time comes against me, I'm gonna be happy to, you know, to the result about whatever it comes against me because I know that I'm doing well to my community, to my country, um, as a soldier that just go to, you know, to war. It's just like the same, I'm just a soldier and [01:05:00] this is my country. I'm gonna protect with my life, my country, and that's it.
So obviously people is gonna try, find, try to find me where I live, when I go everything, you know, but I know I'm concerned about that because I really know that I'm doing. You know, I'm, I'm just doing the right thing here. So if they just wanna try to find me and do whatever they wanna do against me, I don't care, you know, for being honest with you.
Because someone need to be like in front, you know, if I gonna be the last man standing, it's gonna be in that way. I don't care. The mayor, I don't care. These people, I don't care anything. I just wanna defend my country because that's my, that's something that, that is with me. You know, if I come here just in this country, I'm gonna defend my country until the last day of my life.
Tyler: the big question is like, how can people like me and those of us who appreciate your community and want to help preserve it, what can we do? What can listeners do to help? [01:06:00] Uh, the
Walter Brenes: and support, you know, like acknowledgement is super powerful. Um, you know, like it's, it's the most powerful gun that we have right now. You know, like, because if people start realizing this, and for example, this interview just go for someone to have power, it's gonna say, Hey, what's going on in Pav?
You know, even, you know, from that, from some government, you know, another president, like, Hey, stop doing that in Pav. You know, you never know who is viewing you. And that's something important. Support, share this information. Getting involved with the community, because this is gonna sound weird maybe, but I know that the mayor really cared about his image, you know, so going to me into social media against him is, is affecting his ego.
Tyler: What's his social media handle that we can attack it?
Walter Brenes: He's in his name. Yeah. So just go to his profile and say, Hey, you're just showing poon. You're just trying to you the worst. You know, he start [01:07:00] realizing the people is not getting into because he really wanna be like, um, the s or fi, you know, it's not true. He is doing a little bad things to the community.
And that's something that I always say is, you know, like God is not gonna be allowing too much, uh, time for him, just for doing all these bad things to the community. You know, some someday, you know, like, uh, you know, like all these karma is gonna get go against him for sure.
Tyler: Well, it's growth, you know, like growth for growth's sake makes no sense. You know? It's like we,
Walter Brenes: Destroying families,
Tyler: yeah. Well, it's just
Walter Brenes: doing.
Tyler: like they keep, they talk about, like, every time I, I hear about these things like, oh, we're gonna bring, help the economy, we're gonna bring jobs. And it's like, well, there are jobs, there's no homeless people in Pavona, there's no people lacking work.
Like, it's just, you know, like [01:08:00] everything seems fine. Like they don't need anything from the outside. But it's so funny how so many people try to position the argument is we're, we're trying to help the economy. And, and instead like, well, maybe the economy doesn't need to be helped.
Walter Brenes: Exactly. Absolutely.
Tyler: Yeah. What, so are you also working with the Save the Waves, uh, foundation as well.
Walter Brenes: Uh, no, that's something that directly the community's working with them, the, yeah. Um, I'm just a fighter. You call me when you need a general, I'm not good with, with, with that kind of documents. I'm, I'm just like the general in this world, so.
Tyler: So, so where, where can our listeners go to support? Are there any,
Walter Brenes: Yeah, they're like, uh, yeah, there is the Adi, ADI Rio. Uh, Rio Claro. Uh, that's the Instagram and the Facebook. Yeah. Uh, so they can go directly. It's a DI, Rio Claro, like [01:09:00] river, but Rio cla Claro like, uh, Claro.
Tyler: Clear. Clear Or, or like the, the, the phone company Collateral, C-L-A-R-O.
Walter Brenes: so they can go and give too much support to them. Uh, I'm also like just texting Leilani and Remar, you know, even me like saying, Hey, just keep the good five. It's gonna be amazing. Um, I have a little big fights here in Costa Rica, so supporting me. Also, it's gonna be supporting communities because I'm like in the front line with all the communities.
We have another issue, intri, that is near from, uh, Nora, there 40 families. Is is' in the same problem that, uh, yeah, it's, it's madness. You know? And there's like, like 10 different lectures, hotel in the same problem that these 40 families with the hotels are like, good, that they can keep working. But these families, they're like kicking out, like tear down their, their houses.
So [01:10:00] we're having like weird times here. Tyler, uh, I, I have,
Tyler: Weird times everywhere. Walter. Weird
Walter Brenes: Like how is possible that, you know, like the regions families is getting kicking out from their own communities? Like for real.
Tyler: I wonder like I, I'm a, I'm a bit of an optimist, so I, I'm, you know, my wife is always like, Ugh, you make me puke 'cause you're so optimistic. But I, I feel like there's an awakening happening, uh, around the world where a lot of indigenous cultures and people are realizing like, this system, this western capitalistic system is not working for everyone.
And I think a lot of indigenous cultures are starting to stand up and fight and have the means to fight. And, uh, you know, and I just want you to know like how much I appreciate what you're doing and what I think is [01:11:00] important work, because I think it has ripple effects outside of Costa Rica as well, and shows people, other indigenous communities, how to fight and share resources and share knowledge I think is really important.
Walter Brenes: No, absolutely. I'm with you with that. I, I really believe in previous lives, so my previous life, I, I'm, I clearly say that I was from the jungle. Absolutely.
Tyler: You were you, you were the Jaguar
Walter Brenes: Yeah. Maybe, uh, because, you know,
Tyler: with the
Walter Brenes: because I, I, I really feel this connection with the jungle, you know, and with the ocean, I'm, I'm really saying, you know, sometimes I'm like, Hey, why?
I'm like standing in front of this, you know, because I'm like getting in danger myself. I say like, I don't care. You know? So that's the way that it say like, maybe it's because something bigger than me is like supporting me, you know? But I, I really say to you, Tyler, that we, we are gonna be fighting. Um, this is something the major and the politics here [01:12:00] in Costa Rica need, need to know that we are gonna be fighting, you know, people, people are really concerned about like losing their houses, homes, their business.
Um, someday they're gonna be, you know, something bigger than us. It's gonna de detain all this for sure. It's, it's not possible that the universe is gonna be allowing all this for sure. Not
Tyler: Well, I really appreciate you coming on Walter, and, and, um, you know, giving, giving me some of your time here to share this information. And, uh, so where, first, where can our listeners follow you on, on social media? What's your social media?
Walter Brenes: Yeah. My Instagram is the rainmaker cr
Tyler: Make, that is an appropriate name.
Walter Brenes: The rainmaker. Yeah. So, uh, it was, it's funny, you know, because, because when I just call to the community and say, Hey, you're the rainmaker. Yeah. And we're gonna, and we're gonna do rain here. So it's, it's getting bigger than name [01:13:00] than me. Um, I, I really like that, you know, like the rainmaker because people really believe that, you know, like, Hey, he's coming, he's gonna protect us.
So it's, I'm, I'm, I'm feeling better in that way. Like the rainmaker cr So you go to the Instagram, you're gonna find me there.
Tyler: listeners, go follow alter. I'll put all the, all the different links in, in the notes for, for everyone to go find and go support, help and make yourself aware, do more research, do some reading. There's an incredible amount of information online about the Pavona community and the, the indigenous history. So go look that up as well.
Um, Walter, again, really appreciate it and really appreciate your fight and your inspiration. And, um, you know, hopefully we can check back with you not too far in the future and see what the progress is [01:14:00] and keep an, uh, keep an eye on this story and keep people up to date on it.
Walter Brenes: Will Lou, and thanks for everything Tyler.
Tyler: You got
Walter Brenes: Maybe someone that have power is gonna be us and say we're gonna support Banis.
Tyler: Listeners, go support pavona, support the community,
Walter Brenes: make the phone call and say, Hey, mayor, stop doing that.
Tyler: Start harassing the mayor on Instagram, I guess.
Walter Brenes: That's, that's a one.
Tyler: in trouble, aren't I?
Walter Brenes: Well, you're not from Costa Rica.
Tyler: That's true, that's true. I'm not there, so I'll be all right when I go to visit. I might be pulled over by I, you know, the immigration when I get there,
Walter Brenes: Nah, just call me.
Tyler: a lawyer now. Walter, thank you so much. And uh, listeners, go check it out and go, go support and, uh, yeah, we will check you on down the line soon.
Thank you. Thank you, Walter. [01:15:00]