How Surfing Ruined My Life with Jason Borte
How Surfing Ruined My Life with Jason Borte
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tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Hello and welcome to the Swell Season Surf podcast. I'm your host, Tyler Brewer. This episode's guest is one of the true pillars of East Coast surfing, a competitor, storyteller, teacher, and lifelong ambassador of the stoke, Jason b, hailing from Virginia Beach. Jason's journey began with the humbling first session in 1982 that involved a backwards wetsuit, a borrowed yellow twin fin, and several enthusiastic meetings with the ocean floor.
Not long after he rose through the ranks to become an ESA All star, and eventually the ASP's [00:02:00] Pro champion. He even beat a young Kelly Slater in a head-to-head competition at the 1990 O P'S Junior Contest at Sebastian Inlet. But Jason's impact reaches far beyond contest results. He became one of surfing's most respected voices contributing to major surf publications around the world, and co-authoring Pipe Dreams, the biography of Kelly Slater, along with writing the Koch's Guide to Surfing and several other books exploring the culture and soul of the sport, A lifelong educator.
Jason holds a Master's degree in education and spent over 15 years as a middle school civics teacher, while also founding the Jason Bort Surf School, where he's introduced generations of surfers to their first waves. His dedication to community runs deep for memorial surf contests to working with wounded warriors.
Life rolls on and surfers healing, giving countless people the gift of surfing. He was inducted into [00:03:00] the East Coast Surfing Hall of Fame in 2016 and today Jason serves as director of Surf Coaching at Atlantic Park in Virginia Beach, home to North America's first wave Garden Cove Surf Lagoon, where he continues shaping the future of surfing through coaching, community programs and youth initiatives.
He's also the author of Virginia Is For Surfers, a beautifully crafted love letter to Virginia Beach Surf Community and his upcoming memoir, how Surfing Ruined My Life Explores What happened when he stepped away from the ocean for an entire year, a social experiment that changed his life in unexpected ways.
From pro champion to teacher writer, to wave Pool pioneer Jason bor has spent a lifetime living and giving the true spirit of surfing. Jason, welcome to the Swell Season Surf podcast. I hope I got all that right.
Jason: Uh, I don't
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: It's a mouthful.
Jason: I don't know if I can add that to [00:04:00] any, any of that.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: We're done.
Jason: yeah. Yeah. Thank you. It's been great. I do have to admit though, the, the part about beating Kelly in the Op East, I don't know where that came from, but,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh,
Jason: that's
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: that's like all over online.
Jason: is it really?
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: take it.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Ah, damn.
Jason: it, but
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: What?
Jason: I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh man, that's embarrassing. I gotta take that out. Oof.
Jason: Far as I know there, you know, the rest of it was, uh, you know, fairly factual, but, uh, yeah, I, I can't, I, I had a couple head-to-head meetings with him, um,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: How'd those go?
Jason: uh, going back to the ESA championships in 1985,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: boys division, that didn't, did not go end well, as you can imagine. And then, uh, old king of the peak contest at
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I remember that one.
Jason: a little battle with him there, and, uh, actually thought I that one.
I was told that I did, but [00:05:00] you know, he, he squeaked by me in that one. And, uh, op, I never even did an OPE,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Really? Damn. Oh man. Gemini is ruining it for me, man. Oh my God. And I should know this stuff. I thought I, I, that is so funny 'cause I totally thought, like, I was like, oh, I thought Rob Machado won that one too. And then I saw it come up and I was like, huh.
Jason: yeah, yeah. I can see how, you know, maybe it's the hair it look, it looks a little like Rob's, maybe that's it.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: You wish that is some hair. Man.
Jason: Seriously impressive.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I wanted to start like you, so you were teaching for about 15 years and I was curious like what led to stepping away from that and, and what has the world been like since you stepped away from that?
Jason: Oh, it's, it's been incredible. Is the best decision I ever made. Probably. Um, no, I was just, it was, it was, I've been very fortunate since stepping away from teaching. [00:06:00] Um, it's funny 'cause I never really planned on actually teaching. Like, I knew I was gonna go to college and I had to major in something. And so, uh, I just picked education, like, because teachers get summers off.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: I'll do that. Turns out I, I enjoyed it and,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: it, it was great, but I never really planned on sticking with it. uh, after at 15 years, I'd finally gotten to the point where, you know, you reach a point where it almost makes sense just to stick it out, you know,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: benefits and all that. And I had gotten to the point, I was teaching this really cool high school class for the last six years. It was like a maker space where kids could come in and create their own project, do anything they wanted,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: a proposal, then work all year on building something, making a video game,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh,
Jason: something like whatever they wanted to do.
And, uh, and then do a TED Talk at the end of the year about what they learned. And it was the
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: what?
Jason: ever. [00:07:00] I did that for six years. And then the, uh, the state of Virginia decided to discontinue that course. And, um, I had just gotten to the point where I was like, okay, I guess I could, you know, I can make it till retirement.
And, uh, as soon as they got rid of that class, they threw me into an economics class, which I, I should not be teaching anyone anything about money. So, um, I realized it was time to go and it, you know, fortunately the, the Wave Park was, already kind of in the works here, and I, I had been talking to those guys about, about some kind of position there.
So it just, I was
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow, that's so wild. But damn, that sounds like such a cool class. How did you conceive that? How did you get that going?
Jason: there was, so I was teaching the middle school
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: like you said, and, uh, a friend of mine was friends with the principal at this high school, and this principal had been through [00:08:00] several, shop teachers basically, um, over the span of a few years. And just, he read this book about, I think it's called, um, what Schools Could Be Incredible Book about this guy that went around to all 50 states and, and looked at different ways of basically running schools and kind of found that like when you give kids the opportunity to learn about what they wanna learn.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: you put all these parameters in there, they learn, thank you. They learn so much more and they're interested in it. They have ownership, and they, they want to be there, you know? So he just decided he wanted to create this class, and our mutual friend was like, you should get Jason to run it. 'cause he knew I had, you know, had surf camps and other businesses and it would probably something be something I'd be interested in doing. Um, and I jumped on it and it was like, yes, absolutely. It sounds incredible. And I got to go in and basically create the course.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: [00:09:00] That, that's like, I remember like, um, doing a tour once of like a Steiner school, and that was kind of like the, the whole thing was like the kids would have like a whole project for the year to work on, or, or a semester or whatever. And they would have like a group one and then a individual one. And I just think kids learn so much better when
Jason: yeah,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: you're not being told, you're, you're finding out for yourself, you know?
Like you just engage so much more. And like you said, there's ownership.
Jason: yeah, yeah. And some of them just, you know, wanna work with their hands. And most classes you can't do that. It's like, you come in and the teacher has it on the board, we're gonna do this, this, and this. Where this was the opposite. So like, you know, if a kid is, building a or whatever, he would look up, go on YouTube, how to build a dog house.
And he would create this list of directions. And so the kids would come in and rather than going like, Mr. Bor, what are we doing today? I would be like. What are you doing today?
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah,
Jason: know, pull up your list and see what number you're on and, [00:10:00] and move forward with it. So it was really cool. I was kind of more of a consultant.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: but that's like, I mean, that's like, out of that must have been so rewarding for you to have watched that. Like, especially like, I imagine civics is a, is a really en engaging class in itself as well and it's, you know, really important of course. But this is like, must have been quite a departure for you
Jason: With, with Civic, so we have, in Virginia we have these SOLs standards of learning, which I mean, you guys have something com
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Regions, regents, exams or something like that. Yeah.
Jason: every grade has certain tests that all the kids have to pass. And like with civics it was, you know, I did my best to make it fun and I feel like I did, but it's like I'm packing the kids' heads full of facts just so they can pass a test at the end of the year
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: toss it, toss everything they learned in the trash on the way out the door.
And it's like, you know, they don't retain any of it. Yeah. My kids were passing the test. I was doing well I guess in that regard, but it wasn't, you know, [00:11:00] it wasn't very rewarding.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: like when I got to create this class, it was like in the beginning I invited a bunch of local business owners that I know in Virginia Beach
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: before school started, and I'm like, these are. that hire dozens and dozens of, of, you know, teenage kids every
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: And I'm like, what are you seeing among kids? What are the things they're really lacking in? And all of them said kind of the same thing, which was, uh, problem solving skills and communication skills.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: I, I incorporated those things into what we were doing.
And so like with creating a project and figuring it all out kind of on your own, you're getting those problem solving skills. sorry, I got a jet flying
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: It's all right. I live, I near, I live near JFK, so I got it all, so. Well, you might get some over here too.
Jason: And then, uh, for the communication skills part of it, um, you know, there was the TED Talk at the end of the
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: also with the project, they had to have a consultant. I, I know [00:12:00] tons of people around, so like, they're building a doghouse. I would call my friend who is a contractor and be like, you know, you're gonna work with this kid this year.
He's gonna show you his, his house plans for his doghouse materials list, his, you know, everything. And so they would have to communicate with their consultant throughout the year. And it was, rewarding for me, and it was hugely rewarding for them. I had some kids who probably wouldn't have come to school if it wasn't for that class.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Did you get any surfers in the class as well? That, and did they do any like cool surf projects?
Jason: I had a couple, a couple kids built skateboards. That was kind of cool. This one
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: That's sick.
Jason: skateboard,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: That's epic.
Jason: skateboard. Um. And I had one kid build a surfboard.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Nice.
Jason: surfboard. I, I very loosely, he, he got a blank. He went and bought a planer. was, at the time, I was able to let the kids go outside and
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: was kind of before it got to where you couldn't really, [00:13:00] you know, have the doors propped open and all that kind of stuff.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: And he was outside with his planer going at the blank. he, it was cold out. He had a hoodie on
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Epic.
Jason: his hood got caught in the planer,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh
Jason: could have killed himself.
Like he nearly strangled himself. The planer ate his hoodie basically, and he was like stuck in the, in the, planar and had to like, his, you know, his, his hoodie was, was shredded. And, uh, the board, as you can imagine, like, uh, I mean, he, he kind of, I set him up with a local shaper,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: yeah.
Jason: but he kind of just went at it.
I mean, it was, it was the, the crudest looking thing I'd ever seen, but it was so cool, you know?
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: It doesn't not work. You know,
Jason: Yeah,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I mean, I, I wonder, like, I have to wonder then, like, running a surf school and how you teach kids to surf would almost be somewhat similar in some [00:14:00] ways because there's only so much you can teach, you know, with surfing. Like there's coaching obviously, but a lot of it is the kids just finding it out for themselves and figuring it out on their own with mentors, you know, there.
Jason: right. I feel like being a teacher, uh, helped me to look at it a different way and made it easier, I think for me to explain things,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: create sort of a curriculum for my camp. Like,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: I really always prided myself in with my camp wasn't like a daycare, you know?
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: there's so, I mean, as long as anyone has been surfing, there's still things to learn, and any surfer will tell you that.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: like, I had kids coming back year after year after year, and then they'd eventually become instructors and work for me. It was awesome, but there's always something they can learn. So I, I really made it a point with my instructors to make sure, you know, even if kids, you know, yeah, you know, this kid from last summer and the summer before, they can catch their own [00:15:00] waves, but okay, let's talk to 'em about what they wanna do now.
They wanna go down the line, they wanna do a cutback, they wanna do a floater. Let's like, you know, give 'em some homework. Like make sure they're continuing to push themselves and continuing to learn.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Homework. You're like, you're gonna watch searching for Tom Curran and you're gonna master that cutback.
Jason: yeah. Yeah.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: That's, that's like whenever I meet beginners, I'm like, just, just watch surf movies. Take it in by osmosis.
Jason: I feel like it's the, the best tool you can use. I learned, like from watching Tom Curran in slow motion on my VHS, like, and I mean, I would watch it till I wore the tape out.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: feel like, especially like when, if I could find a video of Kern surfing crappy waves, like the
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yes.
Jason: that I'm surfing, and there was a couple of 'em.
There weren't many, um, most of 'em it was, it was good surf, you know. And uh, the ones where he was surfing really blown out, little shore break, I would just study those and see how he [00:16:00] generated speed and all that kind of stuff. And it wasn't something at the time that I could explain, but I could sort of mimic it.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: that's how I figured out how to go fast on a wave.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: It, it, it totally does that. And I, the one thing I think kids are missing today is like the still photos too. 'cause you can really
Jason: Yeah.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: study those and like, put 'em up on your walls and just,
Jason: Right?
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: one of his cut one of Kern's cutbacks for hours. You know, just like trying to imagine that. Or, or even like a lot of the shots remember like.
Especially like eighties and nineties, the shots were all like before hitting the lip or just as you're hitting the lip, not so much after. And so you never knew what came after before. Like we had, you know, like this all the different shots, you know, that showed the stages. So you can almost imagine, you know, in your imagination, could kind of lead that a little bit more, which led to probably more aerial type surfing, I think.
Jason: right. And like the bottom turn, which
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah,
Jason: of a bottom turn, like you
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I [00:17:00] know.
Jason: see anything like that anymore. And it's, it's like that's the foundation of everything. So.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Absolutely. I'm, I'm curious in like one, like how did the Atlantic Park come about? Like how did you, how did that come about? 'cause that's like, and that must have been quite a departure for you too, like, was it, was it a bittersweet transition or were you just like,
Jason: As
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: let me add it. Yeah. And then going to now you're like, fuck that.
No way.
Jason: I was like, see you guys.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Peace.
Jason: no, I, I don't, I mean, I, I really enjoyed working with kids. I mean, I'm still a teacher basically, as with what I do. Um, uh, you know, so I working with the kids because of that class that I had. It was, it was so much fun. But no, I don't, I, no, I never looked back on that. But, um, as far as Atlantic Park, and I mean, we are, we are the, the first wave garden in North America, which the fact that that's in Virginia Beach, like still right down the [00:18:00] street from my house, blows my mind.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Do, do, do you just say, Hey, Pharrell, what's up? Every time you go in, you know, like,
Jason: I did teach Pharrell to surf in
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: no way.
Jason: Um, which we can get into a little bit. It's kind of funny if you want. Um, but as far as how Atlantic Park came about, it goes back to, and this is a kind of neat story, um, in the late nineties, I was going down to Surf Expo, working for Quicksilver. Um, running the surf team
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah,
Jason: East coast with Matt Keckley and, and stuff like that. But, um, so I would just go down for a couple days and it was like, that year was like 97, 98 I think. Um, I just flew down for like two days, didn't bring a surfboard, didn't bring, just brought, you know, a change of clothes and was just gonna be at, at the Orlando Convention Center all weekend. Um, at the time they were having a contest at Typhoon Lagoon
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: yeah,
Jason: Kelly and Rob
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I remember that. Yeah.
Jason: um, Shay Lopez, uh, a couple other guys, [00:19:00] Dorian, um, it was only six guys I think.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yep.
Jason: it was, it was kind of an invitational invitational thing. Their sponsors each kicked in some money for the purse and all that and the surf expos in January.
And it just so happened that year there was a huge swell headed for Hawaii. So they called the Eddie I cow contest on hold. So Kelly had to like, take off and fly to Hawaii and I'm just walking around Surf Expo. I go to the Quicksilver booth and they're like, Hey, you're surfing in this contest tonight. Like, 'cause I surf for Quicksilver on the east coast and um, they didn't have anyone else. So they're like, you're in, I'm like, I don't have a surfboard, I don't have trunks, I don't have anything.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: good thing you're at Surf Expo. We don't know where to find any of that.
Jason: exactly. So I grabbed a pair of quick silver trunks off the rack. I went over to the Wave riding vehicles booth, picked out a surfboard. A couple hours later, I'm at Typhoon Lagoon for the first time. I had never surfed it. They're doing like a little [00:20:00] warmup session. Um, just those guys, those five guys that are in
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: God,
Jason: uh, like, and I'm already like, oh my gosh, I gotta go like surf against these guys. And it's like filling up, there's people, like everyone from Surf Expo is, is coming out.
They're lining the entire pool. It's
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: pressure whatsoever.
Jason: And I missed my first wave.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: No.
Jason: Like I get in and it's like a wave every couple minutes, you know? And I like, I had never surfed it, didn't really know where to line up, didn't really, wasn't sure how hard to paddle. And I missed my first wave, got climb out and I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh.
Jason: one warmup wave and then they threw us out for the contest.
But anyway, I got my butt kicked. But, um, a kid from Virginia Beach was there at Surf Expo, a younger kid. He was probably 16 at the time. Uh, his name's Joe Lamont and he was there just partying, whatever. But they were watching the contest, seeing a guy from his hometown surfing this wave pool in this big contest. And at that moment it like was imprinted on his brain. Like, oh my [00:21:00] gosh, this is amazing. I want this in Virginia Beach. You know, he ends up growing up, becoming a, a very successful local businessman. Um, about 10 years ago, decides like, is successful enough to where he can get some people together and like try to get this wave pool thing going. And, um. Sure enough, um, you know, he got in touch with, with the right people, they got the funding. Um, they were gonna act, do the Typhoon Lagoon technology here,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: glad they didn't
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: No.
Jason: a fun wave, but it's kind of a novelty. It's not a
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yes.
Jason: wave. Uh, at the time that they were working on it, the Wave Garden Cove technology came out and luckily they switched to that.
And
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh,
Jason: that's, those wave Garden guys have cracked the code as far as putting an incredible cons, you know, wave that has the opportunity for a lot of people to get waves at one time, um, [00:22:00] in a tiny little place. Like you'd be amazed how they have it just
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: the footprint.
Jason: middle of the ocean front surrounded by, you know, hotels and just, it's a little tourist mecca and they just plopped it right in the middle.
I,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: God, I mean, I. When did it become reality for you and like the community there? I'm kind of curious like when did you think, oh shit, this is really happening? Like because, 'cause we've had that tempted to us here in New York numerous times, you know?
Jason: I know there's been a, a lot just since I've been working in, in the industry the last year, I've heard of places where they're like, they're, they, they've been working on it for years with the city. They think everything's good and then all of a sudden the rug gets pulled out from 'em, you know?
Um. Yeah, here it was, it was really kind of gradual, um, uh, Joe that I was talking about, and a few other guys as they're [00:23:00] putting a pitch together for the city, one of 'em has a private plane. We flew down to Orlando again to
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh
Jason: Lagoon, to get
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: yeah.
Jason: to present a package to the city. Um, which was insane in itself.
Like, I went to school, was teaching, got out like an hour early, went to the
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: got on a private jet, flew to Typhoon Lagoon, came back and was teaching the next day was just, it was insane. But, um, so they put a package together for the city, you know, they convinced the city it was, it was a good idea. And then they would have these meetings, like at the Beach Convention Center to like, have people come in, give their public input, and it kind of just gradually built and built. Um, and then they, you know, they broke down, broke ground like maybe two and a half, three years ago or something like that.
And, and even then it was kind of, you know, it was still kind of hard to believe, you know, and, and, uh, it, the probably, it [00:24:00] wasn't real to me until I actually saw a wave break in there one day and I just happened to go up there for a meeting or something. And I don't think they were supposed to be even running waves at that moment, but I was just kind of sitting there on the side.
It was middle of summer, super hot. And, uh, you know, just to get there. I, I live a mile away. I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: a car. I gave my car
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh
Jason: I got an e-bike and I just zip around on my little e-bike up there to work. But I'm just sitting in there and I'm like making some calls, texting, and I hear, all of a sudden I hear this and I look up and I see this perfect little right just peeling across the lagoon.
And I was just, oh my God, I'm gonna get my phone out to film it, you know? And like all the workers there too, this was the first wave that broke, I imagine. 'cause these
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: wow.
Jason: all freaking out, getting their cameras out and everything. And, uh, I think that's probably when it finally settled in that like, this thing is real and it's a, you know, it's a legit way of,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: What's your day to day [00:25:00] like then there, like, how does that, like what do you, what do you sculpt there? What do you create in, in, in that space?
Jason: uh, so I am, my main title is director of coaching. So I've hired all of the surf coaches. I work with Wave Riding vehicles, who's responsible for the coaching side of things as well. Well as the rental room.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: got like a hundred rental boards, wetsuits, all that kind of stuff. So, um, I'm in charge of staffing all of the instruction as well as the, the rentals.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: oversee all that, but then I also work for Atlantic Park, um, just helping them with marketing, like creating events and, um. Just, I'm there on the day to day, like as long as my stuff's flowing with the, the coaching and all, I'm in my office there with the rest of the Atlantic Park team and we're, you know, dreaming up what we can do.
You know, like I, I've been just blown away with the events we've run in [00:26:00] five months of
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: It's like surf contest, like a pro surf contest. We threw together in a week to a program that Pharrell helped with for, uh, underprivileged kids. Just like a Billabong promo we did with Park and a bunch of guys, and like, it was the coolest promo.
I've, I mean, I've been going to promos for, ever since I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: and it's like, okay,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I.
Jason: gonna go surf Virginia Beach. It's, it's Kneehigh, know, they're gonna go sign some posters at a shop or they're gonna go to a bar or whatever. But like to be able to do a, a promo in there, park is like getting barreled, doing big hacks.
The entire lagoon is lined with people and it's like, it's insane. Every, every single event we've done there has just, it's been so much fun.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I, I've, I remember once, like Tom Kern posed like this, this thought idea of like the job of pro surfer, not being so much about competition, but almost doing [00:27:00] live exhibitions and wave pools, provide that, where you can bring someone like Tom Kern or whoever and like, I mean, I would pay to watch fucking Kern.
That's like going to see a concert. You know,
Jason: in
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: like,
Jason: but, and Kern came here a few months
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: yeah,
Jason: I had never met him
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: no, shut up. You had never met Kern. Like,
Jason: him. I talked to him on the phone a couple of times, like back in the day when I was working for surfer or, or swell.com to do a little interview on the phone. But he came in and like, um, you know, my team was like, are you gonna go talk to him?
I'm like, no, I'm, I've been here all day. I'm going home. Like, whatever, I don't care. I'll watch the video. and, uh, they're like, well, you gotta go meet him. Like, just come on. And so I go in, I start talking to him, you know, he's super cool, like in that setting where it wasn't like an interviewer asking him questions, it was just like, oh, hey, what's up?
Like, oh, cool, did you bring a board? What are you gonna ride? And he's like, he didn't bring a board. And I'm
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: sounds about right.
Jason: I had an idea of, of kind of what he likes to ride. And I [00:28:00] had this little fat five four twin fin,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Nice.
Jason: And I'm like, well, I got a board. Like I got a little twin fin that you might like. And, uh, but we also have a whole rental room with a hundred boards in it. And he's like, oh, that twin fin sounds cool. Like, let me check that out. So I grabbed the board, bring it in there. He's like, oh, this is perfect. I'm like, well, do you want to grab another one just in case you don't like it? He's like, no, no, this is good.
This is good. uh, but he's got these fins that he insisted on using
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wing Fins, right?
Jason: Is that what they're called? I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: freakiest Look at.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I got 'em. They're amazing. I love them.
Jason: like if my and a half year old granddaughter tried to draw a picture of a stocking,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: it would look like. It's like a ridiculous, so he's got two sets of those and my fins.
And so he goes and gets ready and comes out and uh, he's just gonna like put his stuff down like on a chair. And I'm like, someone's gonna snatch this stuff. I'm like, all right, I'll hold your stuff and you know, you go surf and if you need anything [00:29:00] I'll be up here. He, he goes out, like his session had already started.
He missed the first 10 minutes of it.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Sounds about right.
Jason: out, catches a wave, and next thing I know he's belly boarding in. I'm like, oh shit. I guess he wants to switch already. He, he comes in, switches to the other s You said ssw
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: S wings. Yeah.
Jason: to try the other pair. So
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: more of the session. We switches fins out, he paddles back out on those.
I'm like, okay, I can finally chill. I'll, I'll put his stuff in the rental room. I can, you know, just go back to work, get all my stuff done. And um, I look up like five minutes later and I see him coming in again and he's like looking around 'cause I'm not where I was when he, when he left, he wants to switch back to the original fins. It was insane. And so it's like, I find myself being Tom Kern's fin caddy
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah,
Jason: for the day, you know, which is like the cool, ended up being like the coolest thing ever. And you know, watching him surf was insane. Even at, you know, 60 whatever years old. It was, it was mind blowing.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: it's still fun to [00:30:00] watch. I mean, he could go straight and I would, I would pay to watch that. I'd pay to watch him go straight, you know?
Jason: yeah. The thing that he did that I haven't seen anyone, anyone else do is like, yeah, he was getting barreled. Yeah, he was doing cool turns, but then like towards the end of the wave it gets kind of soft
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: and I've never really seen anyone do like a full roundhouse in there. And somehow he was able on with, maybe it was those fins, I don't know.
But like get, you know, you get barreled, super styley come out, do a turn, and then it like pump down at the end and do a big smooth roundhouse on like a little like, you know, two foot section at the end of the wave was just beautiful.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Well, you are forgetting, he did shred Allentown in Pennsylvania that one year,
Jason: True,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: was pretty freaking tiny.
Jason: I don't know how he, I know Tom Carroll won that
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah,
Jason: Uh, I don't know how Kern did in it,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: he, he didn't do that great. But still, I've seen footage of it and it's like. Whew.
Jason: Is
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Crazy now,
Jason: No, it's not.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I've done [00:31:00] research. I thought it'd be, I actually thought that would be a really fun podcast like series, just to do the history of that, that park in the general,
Jason: now
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: place is wild.
Jason: got third in
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yes.
Jason: that. And I mean, at six
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: And he's a big guy.
Jason: on those waves, like, that's, that's just
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I heard that. Like they would surf up to like the wall and then hang onto the wall to keep going on the wave and stuff, you know, like
Jason: Wow.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: would, so, so then like with this wave pool, like do you, are you seeing, uh, do you think you're gonna see, or are you already seeing a change in the lineup in terms of performance, how local surfers are?
Do you feel like it's alleviating, uh, crowd or adding to crowd? It might be too soon to tell, but I'm just curious like what the impacts are on the community in general with it.
Jason: I, I don't go to the beach anymore, so I don't, now I'm just,[00:32:00]
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh man. You got chlorine through your running, through your veins now.
Jason: I, it's amazing how quickly I got spoiled and it's like, it's not just me. It's like, you know, the, the people I work with are, are the same way. It's like I have to make myself go surf in the ocean.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: you know, the, the waves here are really bad. I mean,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I'm, I'm, I'm from the East coast. I'm, I'm familiar, you know?
Jason: Like the whole East coast,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah,
Jason: it's the same thing. It's like even when it's good, it's really not that good. We have hatteras. Yes.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: yeah.
Jason: you know, so you can spend an entire day going down to hatteras and, and hunting for the entire day and maybe hope to get a barrel or two, or, you know, you go to the surf park and, you know, go in for your hour and you get a dozen perfect barrels.
But, um, I, as far as the impact on, on the lineup around here so far, it's hard to say. I mean, it may be. It may still be a little, a little premature to say [00:33:00] that, but um, know that when I'm in there, it's such a completely different setting at like, the atmosphere is so positive, it's
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: place in town.
And I see people who have just loathed for 30 years who paddle out and, and you know, paddle out on a long board and, and stomp up and down and catch every single wave and paddle circles around you. person comes into the wave pool and it's like, you know, you're getting in line, you're taking turns and it's like, I actually work with a guy there, who is that guy? I would avoid him at all costs in the ocean, see? And I see him in, in the Lagoon and it's like I we're best friends. It's insane how that the whole atmosphere changes. It's like people show up and you're not like, oh, okay, this guy's gonna get all the waves. It's like, oh cool, this guy's in my session. I get to see him surf like we take turns.
It's such a complete different mentality. And when you, the ocean, I don't [00:34:00] know if it's gonna have an impact as far as I think performance wise absolutely. I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah,
Jason: it can't,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: yeah.
Jason: we don't get opportunities to practice and learn stuff.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: able to get the repetitions in there, the video replay as you're piling back out, it's
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: That's crazy.
Jason: performance level is just gonna blow up for sure.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: It, it, I find, I think the, what's great about the wave pool experience is that it's, uh, like a skateboard mentality. You, you take away the scarcity, uh, mindset that we have. And it's like, I mean, I, I did the Bristol Wave pool in the uk. I was, we did two sessions and, you know, they do like 12 waves a session, I guess 12 sets.
Jason: Mm-hmm.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I got to set 10 and I wanted to call, I wanted to throw in the white towel like I was shot, I mean, and we were wearing five mills, but
Jason: Yeah.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: it was, I was exhausted. I was so tired. And they're like, oh, you got a few more? And I'm like, no more. I'm [00:35:00] done. I wanna go in. You know,
Jason: right. Um,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: your fitness must be like some, like peak right now in some ways.
Jason: when I first got in, like, I was lucky enough to be asked to do some of the wave programming in the beginning,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: that for two weeks I had to surf like eight
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: up.
Jason: And I, I went from, you know, and on the east coast
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: if I go surfing, I'm riding my 11 footer,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: And I'm only doing that once or twice a week to all of a sudden like turn after turn after turn, paddle back out another wave, paddle back out, another wave. And it's like I was. Yeah, after a couple weeks of that, yeah, I feel like my, my fitness level definitely went up, but, um, yeah, I was in no sort of surf shape before and it de it you, it's such a good workout.
It's insane. Like you said, an hour [00:36:00] is an incredible workout.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: It is, it's crazy. And I'm also curious, like, are you thinking of new ways of running contests? Because like,
Jason: totally.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: feel like the, for the, the regular surf format doesn't fit the wave pool or is not as entertaining
Jason: right?
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: there's so many new ways to explore it. And I'm curious like if you guys are, have started planning that.
Jason: Oh, from the first week we were open, the first event we did. Um, but I have seen that some, the, the one, the Wave Garden in Korea, I think ran like a WQS event, which was
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: you know, and
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: kind of boring. I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yep. Yeah, totally.
Jason: when, when, you know, everyone's getting the exact same wave, it kind of takes a little bit of the excitement out. But we did, um, so the week we opened, we opened August 16th, uh, ECSC, the East Coast Surfing Championships in Virginia Beach, the
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah,
Jason: event in the world
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: that's right. That's crazy.
Jason: on. So there was a bunch of pros in town and we decided we're gonna throw an event. So like in a week we [00:37:00] threw this event together, the chlorine clash, and we had eight men, eight women, I brought in the format that they used in that Typhoon Lagoon event that
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm,
Jason: in the nineties where it's man or man. Um, if I'm surfing against you,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: yeah.
Jason: out, I ride a wave, you ride the next wave. Um, the judges hold up a with the color of the person who won that exchange.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm.
Jason: like, know, there's no
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I like that.
Jason: It's like somebody wins that exchange, you paddle back out, you have another one, best two outta three in the first round. you know, whoever wins two waves advances to the next round semis. And then you go to the final and then that's like best of five. But like with a huge crowd. That format was so cool. I was so nervous because I suggested the format. Um, no one had ever heard of doing it like that. And so I was kind of like, in the beginning I'm like, oh, this is gonna be so cool, so cool.
But then we get close to the event [00:38:00] and it's like, I'm seeing all these people come in and I know that it's all on me because I kind of set up the format and I'm like, oh my gosh. Like I felt all this pressure. Like, what if it doesn't work? And you know, what if the, you know, what if people aren't into it?
But it ended up being so cool. It's such a neat format. Takes, you know, who cares if someone got a 7.25 or a whatever? It's just like that person won.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: It's like, well, it's got that, um, natural selection kind of, uh, style where it's like, you know, you know, someone's dominating a session, right? Like with how many contests have you watched where someone was dominating? But because they didn't get that, you know, especially in the eighties or nineties, they didn't get that fourth wave, you know, or whatever, you know, but they clearly were like the performer of the heat, like that their, their aura as the kids like to say was, was, was glowing, you know?
Jason: So we ran this event in two hours,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: It's so perfect.
Jason: And it like to run a regular, you know, standard format event would take six[00:39:00]
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: or something if you had it open to a, a field of, you know, whatever, 96 or, or something. So to a small format and a, you know, a different kind of a judging system wa was really cool.
We're gonna keep doing
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I, I think a game of horse is like gonna be a really fun format.
Jason: Yeah. Yeah. I think, uh, I, I heard something about that today. Well, it'd be a game of surf or
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah. Yeah.
Jason: but like, um, I think we might be doing the Stab High event
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: I think they might do some kind of like a game of surf in, in, as the lead up to that or something.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: That, that builds so much tension. You know, like, like when I watch like the, you know, the, the contest in Abu Dhabi or the Surf ranch, like, I feel like tho that wave particularly should be more so like, um, like figure skating where they have to hit certain maneuvers on that wave, you know, and have to do it.
And they get judged on that maneuver and scored on that as [00:40:00] points instead. Like that way you really can build more tension that way as opposed to how, how it's run now where you just can fall asleep pretty quickly. I feel like unfortunately
Jason: Yeah. I, I, I think that what you're saying could, could work for sure. On, on the other hand, making it more like gymnastics or something where there's like a preset routine. I don't know, like, you know, that kind of
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: he's going for a triple, he's going for, for
Jason: know what they're gonna do. It's, yeah. It's, it's crazy how, how, you know, it gets boring when, when you have the one thing that's ever lacking in a contest, which is waves. You have that guaranteed and then it kind of, I dunno, it takes a little bit of the excitement out of it.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: No, it's, I think it, I think it's, it's cool that, and like if you could throw variable waves in there where the surfer doesn't know what it's gonna do, like that's also like things that that can, can add drama or artificially add the drama to it to, you know, which, I mean, [00:41:00] it's. I mean, how fucking stoked are you that you get to play in this, this man?
Like seriously, what did you do in the last life to get that
Jason: I, I, I mean, I've been asking that my whole life, honestly, like just to, to, you know, fall into surfing and, and just get to travel around the world and. Um, you know, without surfing I never would've done that. And just, you know, to be able to even do that, you know, first surf, get paid to surf around the world, then get paid to go around and write, it's like, you know, I think I paid, paid for it maybe with 15 years in the classroom afterwards. but
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: one year of not surfing, you know?
Jason: Yeah. Yeah. We, we will, we will get to that for sure. But, um, going in there to work, honestly, like, I don't really take days off. It's 'cause it's like when I'm off, it's like I want to be there. 'cause I'm seeing my friends, seeing people I grew up surfing with that kind of got out of it, kind of, you know, got outta [00:42:00] shape, got injured, got busy, got whatever.
They're, they're like teenagers again.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: coolest thing ever. And it's just, I want to just, you know, it's, you just want to be there.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Not to mention also the, the more, um, altruistic aspects to it. Like, I mean, doing the, uh, like wounded warriors or life rolls on, or, you know, walk on water or any of these, you know, like, uh, programs or taking just kids who, uh, have never been had the exposure to surfing in general, like to put them in a controlled environment that's safe, secure, and can build confidence is also like, that's gotta be so rewarding as well.
And, and I'm curious like what you've done so far in there and what your plans are for that.
Jason: Yeah. Um, when I did get the job and went in there and we started having meetings and stuff, it's like, um, I mean, I, I told the guys I work with straight up like, you know, I love this, you know, this will be fun, blah, blah, blah. But what I care about is [00:43:00] like, I don't wanna work at a country club, you know, this should not be some elitist thing.
I know we need to make money,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah,
Jason: like, it's my passion to open those doors for people who can't afford to come in and otherwise wouldn't get to surf. um, I've, with my pay surf camp that I've done for 25 years, um, for the last 12 years or so, I've been doing like one week of, of, of free camp
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: yeah.
Jason: for kids that can't afford it. And, um, worked with the school system here in Virginia Beach and, uh, like took a, we did the wait this Wave Warriors thing. Um,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: wounded Warriors thing, but
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah,
Jason: I helped start that with a friend, Ken Hunt, um, local surfer here. And we did that for 15 years and it kind of fizzled out, like there wasn't as much of a need for it, which is a great thing.
Um, so we kind of just quit running it and I took over that our nonprofit and was gonna use it for doing my free camps for kids. [00:44:00] And, uh, as soon as we got into the park, within a few weeks. Um, we started like having all these meetings about different things we can do, and with Pharrell being involved and his connection with Adidas, next thing I know, they're like, yeah, Adidas wants to sponsor this whole program.
We're gonna do it like for a year, and we're gonna give you this money.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Holy
Jason: Go create a budget. I'm just like, okay.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: should have paid attention while teaching economics, huh?
Jason: Yeah, exactly, exactly. I need, I needed a little help there, but we kicked it off in October. We brought in, um, unfortunately because of when we opened, there was only so much we could do when it was still
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: were able to kind of kick it off in October. Pharrell came in town. He was there at the event. We had a hundred and maybe 110 kids, from the community that never, not one of 'em would ever probably get the opportunity to go in there and surf [00:45:00] just because of what it costs to go surf, you know? And we got to take 'em surfing. And now we're, we're planning the spring kickoff. after the spring kickoff, it'll be one day a week, we'll bring in 40 kids
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: That's amazing.
Jason: schools around the city and they'll get to go like 3, 4, 5 times and actually learn to surf, work their way up through a couple levels. And then the plan is to take 'em and do a little beach camp with them and, and hopefully give them a surfboard at the end of it to where it's not just like. here's surfing, you know, good luck.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: we're gonna teach you everything about it. We'll take you in the ocean. You can learn all about, you know, surfing in the ocean. We'll give you a board. Go now. All you gotta do is get to the beach. And to be able to do that, like that's, that's the coolest thing in the world, you know?
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I think that's like, I mean that's, that to me is the pur, like the main pur should be one of the main purposes of wave pools. You know? It's just like,
Jason: Yeah.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: because hopefully the hope is also that people will [00:46:00] surf and then go out in the ocean and then learn about the environment, learn how to make better policies for, for, you know, protecting their coastlines and have more of a stake in it, you know?
And uh, and obviously also like, teach a lot of people how to swim, which I think, uh, it's a real problem. I know here in New York where a lot of kids don't have that access, you know?
Jason: is part of our, that whole program too. I, I should have mentioned that. It's, it's swimming and surfing.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: That's amazing.
Jason: so we were able to work with Ebony Beach Club, um,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: They're amazing. Uh oh.
Jason: over the country. They're, uh, insane. Um, but they came and we had, um, one of
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: He had some of our crew down there, pharma Quest, Kwame, like whole bunch of like, uh, of our friends down there.
Jason: surfers
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Right. Seriously.
Jason: Yeah.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Like they just started some of them too, which is crazy. Like they got so fucking good quick. And it's like ob I love watching them. There's, they're like the be they embody [00:47:00] everything that is so good about surfing and it's like, and you're just like, yeah, the kids are all right, man.
You know,
Jason: You, you kind of hit on the main thing I think about it is like, growing up it was always like, okay, we have these waves. It's a limited resource, like, you know, everyone else beat it. This is my wave, whatever. And it's like, now I totally see it different in terms of like, you know, the, the oceans are not gonna take care of themselves.
So it's like the more surfers we have, you know, if you're a surfer, inevitably you become like a steward of the environment.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: one hopes,
Jason: of those, yeah, pretty
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: yeah.
Jason: Um, the more of those we create, it's like the better off, you know, the oceans are gonna be as a result, I think. So plus it's the opportunity you're giving these kids, whether they stick with it or not, it's like this, you know, they're getting this confidence boost that they can anything.
It's like one day they don't know how to swim, know, a week later they've had swim lessons, they've learned to surf, they've come back a couple times, and [00:48:00] now all of a sudden, like they, they just view things totally differently.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I am gonna throw an idea out there. The big thing I think is one of the big biggest disconnects is the old guard of surfers and mentoring and, and youth. And I think there's something that can be done there, like where those kids graduate and then maybe they have like an older brother sister that they surf with, sort of, you know, an older guard, local, maybe even across the old local.
But it's like, you know, one, you're helping them, the older guard, but you're also helping the youth and you're bridging that gap. 'cause that, that to me is what I see a lot of the problems like, uh, in the lineup is like, there's a disconnect with all the newer surfers and older surfers and like, you know, the older surfers have been overwhelmed by so many newer surfers and it's harder to connect sometimes.
Jason: Mm-hmm.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: think that's the, the way we're gonna keep the culture alive and also keep all of it kind of moving forward in a positive way.
Jason: Absolutely. [00:49:00] Yeah. I mean, I would consider myself one of those crusty old surfers, at least, you know, until fairly recently.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Well, I wanna jump back in time then to that first surf in 1982. How, how did you come across this, this, you know, yellow wetsuit and twin fin, like, and how, how were, did your parents introduce you at all? Were the other, were your, was it your brother? Like, I'm curious like how you got kind of roped into this.
Jason: Um, my, my parents never, my, my dad somehow came across a long board and we had it in my backyard. I don't think he ever used it. It. Um, so I never learned anything about surfing, um, until I was about 12. We moved in Virginia Beach, but a little bit closer to the ocean, just a different neighborhood. Um, and my brother met some kids at school that surfed, like I would, my brother's two and a half years older. Um,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Derek is his name.
Jason: [00:50:00] Yes. Yeah, he's a successful movie director. He's,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Nice.
Jason: some incredible things, but, um, whatever he did I was gonna do, it didn't matter. You know, if it was figure skating, I would've gone figure
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: it was, I was gonna do it.
So it's not like I like yearned to surf.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: I, that was just the next thing that Derrick's doing, so I'm just gonna go do it. And so my uncle, um, had this old Hansen twin fin, um, and heard his, his wife, my aunt used to babysit me and, you know, I guess somehow word got to them that I wanted to surf and he's like, oh, I got this board here, take this.
And, uh,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: How, how old were you?
Jason: I was 12.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm, good age.
Jason: and, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It was great. And um, the wetsuit, I think I bought from Pete Smith's Surf Chop, which I hadn't even surfed yet, but it was like, it was too cold to surf without a suit. So Bailey wetsuit, which, you [00:51:00] know, is long gone, but it was like this, it had this like fur on the inside.
It was like. $80, but I had it on layaway and like, you know, every week I would take $5 up there until I finally paid it off. And of course, yeah, I, I, my friend, two friends that I went with, they surfed, they didn't tell me I was putting my suit on backwards or anything like that. And paddle out and, um, there was, you know, I didn't successfully ride a wave at all, but I, I couldn't wait to go back.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow. What was the scene like back then? I mean, it would've been pretty tough, I imagine, to try to break in as a kid and like you have, I mean, this is like West Lane height, height of West Lane, Jesse Fernandez, I imagine, you know, kind of age in, in, in Virginia Beach.
Jason: yeah. Jesse's not from Virginia Beach. We used to kid him that he was, 'cause he would always come here, but, um, no, Wes was just starting out on the world tour at the time, and, and the, the atmosphere that you're [00:52:00] talking about at First Street, the jetty there, like, that's the spot. That was an arena. It was a gladiator pit.
It was like, you could go anywhere else and you'd be totally fine, but you go there and it's like, it's a freak show. It's a, you know, it's wild. Like you're, you really have to watch yourself, you know, because there's a total pecking order. And as a little kid, at the very bottom of that pecking order.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: the Boogie Boarders at the time, boogie Boarders were even below
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: grom. you know, there's so many rungs on that ladder. And like, as soon as I got into it, it was like the, we had our old steel pier there that had burned
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh,
Jason: And so there was remnants, like shards of that still in the sand.
There were these buoys saying, be careful.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: your own little dog town type of vibe?
Jason: my gosh. And they had us like hemmed into this one little block where like, you know, there's tourists all up and down the beach.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: have to be in this one little block,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: summertime, it's [00:53:00] packed, you know, and it's like trying to get the waves suck to begin with.
And so try, you know, if you're not in one of the top rungs of that ladder, you're not getting anything but just the characters out there. And it was like, it was the wild west, you know, it was like, it was just paradise. Like it was the coolest thing ever.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Who, who were you scared of most out in the lineup back then? I.
Jason: Um, I was like, I was a total smart ass of all. And, um, but I knew just as far as I could take it, you know, with and who I could talk to and who I couldn't. So it was like, I always kind of towed the line and like, you know, I'd go out with my friends at, you know, Dawn to be able to sit on the peak and catch some waves.
As soon as anyone paddled out, they were higher up than me, so I would move down a little bit more. People came out, I'd move down a little more, you know, and, and there wasn't like, [00:54:00] I feel like the. was really cool. 'cause I was a little kid,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: it's not like I was a even, I mean, not even really a teenager, you know, if I was in a teenager or an adult getting out there trying to catch waves, then it's like, whoa, buddy.
But like, as a little kid, it was kind of like, yeah, go kid. You know?
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah,
Jason: um, there, I wasn't afraid of any of the people. I just kept my distance. Like
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: yeah.
Jason: knew to, to stay away.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I lucky you. Because I, I was 12, but I looked like I was 17, so they didn't, it was like, what the fuck are you? I'm like, I'm just 12. What are you doing?
Jason: my gosh.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Was, I'm curious, like you, you had mentioned somewhere that you, you picked it up really quickly surfing, like you got pretty good fast and like you won the next year.
You won like your first surf contest, if I remember correctly. Um, you know, and I'm curious, like, were you always competitive? Were [00:55:00] you always, did you always have a competitive attitude to, to life in general, or is it, did surfing help spark that? It,
Jason: I think, you know, having a brother a couple years older than me, I was always trying to keep up with him.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: mm-hmm.
Jason: I did, you know, football, baseball, I did karate and I was like kind of competitive in those things. I wouldn't say I was overly competitive.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: I think with surfing, part of it might have been that I finally realized I could be better than my brother at something. And, um, not that he was a great athlete or
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: being, when you're that age, you're two and a half years older, you're gonna be better than your little brother at everything, you know? So, um, you know, so just doing the little ESA contests, you know, it's like that was everything. You know, you're up,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: can't sleep, you're excited about the next day.
So it's like the compe competitive juices are flowing. You want to beat your friends. And like, so as soon as I saw a little bit of success there, I think it that, um, [00:56:00] there was such a, an obvious path. It was like, you know, the ESA local ESA contest, the Mid-Atlantic regionals, the East Coast championships, and it was like, you knew exactly what you had to do.
And it was like, just like the, the, the pecking order at First Street. It's like, okay, I gotta get past all of these guys and I'm just gonna start chipping away at it. And it's like, just became the only thing that mattered in my life, which is
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Did
Jason: of scary, but,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: well, I mean, we'll dive into that. I mean, did you be getting good so quickly though? I would imagine that that would make you feel, it would probably inflate your head a little bit. Did you ever feel like that you got a little bigger than your britches? And like how did that, how, who kept you in check then besides your brother, and were there other locals that, that you, you know, like looked up to as well?
Jason: oh, ab, absolutely. There's a whole crew in Virginia Beach that like. [00:57:00] know, I, I could be a smart ass with the, you know, kids my age and all that, but I had full respect for all of the, the guys who were, you know, then teenagers,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: and all, you know, all of Wes' cronies. And then like, you know, there's John West, Joe Strickland, Ken Hunt, Brad Beach, um,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh
Jason: Jr. Um, I don't know if you are familiar with him, but he was, um, you know, his dad kind of did a lot for surfing around this area. And then, um, had his, his Pete Smith surf shop here. But, uh, Pete Smith Jr. Is a couple years older than me, and when I was getting into it, he was incredible. He
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: wow.
Jason: the, the best surfer I'd ever seen.
And it was like, you know, he was the, the next west basically the most beautiful style you've ever seen, but just totally ripped. and so of those guys that are a few years older than me, they, you know, they're not gonna let some cheeky grom get outta [00:58:00] line, you know, so when they're around, I, I had to watch myself.
Otherwise it was just total smart ass.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I'm curious, like your parents didn't surf. Like were they supportive of it? Did they understand it? Like how, I'm curious, like how their response is. I'm always, I'm always curious how the parents respond to surfing with their kids. You know,
Jason: right,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: it's thrown up in like, it's, it could be really great or it could be like something you're railing against or rebelling against
Jason: 'cause still at, at that time, you know, surfing was nowhere near where it is as far as, you know,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: peak.
Jason: you know? Oh, totally. Yeah. That came out I, I think 82, which
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah, exactly.
Jason: I got into it. And I, I was, as far as I could possibly be away from the surf speak, know, the, the dude like, yeah. You know, I just, to me it was like, um, you know, so I, I, me it was always a [00:59:00] compliment if, if I met someone and they didn't know I was a surfer, like they
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm,
Jason: tell by talking to me. Um, I don't know why that is, but, um, I just, I, I couldn't stand that. Um, I love Sean Penn. Jeff Spli is
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: of course.
Jason: I love the movie, but I just like, could not be like that. But my, my parents couldn't have been any more supportive, um, which is funny, based on how surfing was regarded then, they really were like, you know what, whatever you guys want to do, you know, you,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow. Wow.
Jason: do it and, and we'll support you. And, uh, you know, my mom would sometimes let me skip school.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: we had, he had like one of the old video cameras that, you know, shot straight onto the Betamax
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yes.
Jason: or whatever, you know, and he would come down there and shoot and, um, you know, they. Let us go on trips and like, I mean, unbelievable the stuff that, um, you know, the support they gave and, and what they let me get away with.[01:00:00]
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Well, I mean like, sounded like particularly like teenage years for you, you got to go to, you know, national contests with some interesting characters, you know, to say the least. I mean, you got to be hanging with Jeff, you know, with Matt Keckley and you know that whole crew going to like nationals in San Diego and stuff, and having good times.
I imagine like where, when did you feel that maybe surfing and competitive surfing could be something you could do? I know like you, you got like a sponsorship that helped, but I was curious like if you could recount that story.
Jason: Hmm. Um, I'm trying to remember if there was actually a moment. Um, I guess it would probably be that, that East Coast championships
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.[01:01:00]
Jason: when I was in the boys division surfing against Kelly, man on man uh, just, you know, he was 13 I guess at the time I was 15. Um, but everyone in, you know, everyone in the world knew who he was already. And just, it was the, the like the man on man thing where the two people that, like he, I won my first two man on man heats. He won his first two man on man heats to where like, I'm now going to surf against him to see who goes to the final. And it's like, um, I think that might have, uh, sparked something, just having heard of him for years and then just the fact that I could be in a heat
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: at that magnitude.
Like I didn't have a chance of winning. Like I remember I had watched him in a, in a previous heat do pump down the line, go straight up off the lip, grab his board feet over the lip, do like a barrel roll
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh[01:02:00]
Jason: flip and like kind of land on his belly, but then hop back up. And uh, I'm like, oh gosh, I hope he doesn't do that in my heat.
Sure enough, you know, he's like a shark out there
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: yeah.
Jason: circles around everyone. He is always been like that first wave. He gets the wave, I turn around, I see him just whack, whack. And then from the back I see his board come straight up, upside down, flip over, and then I see his head pop up and he keeps going down the line.
I'm just like, over. But you know, from that I made it like, you know, I was picked to be on the ESA All-Star team, got to go to California, surf against the West Coast, all stars, and just being in, in. That few days in Ventura where the whole ESA Allstar team was together and, you know, it was Kelly and it was Sean and it was, uh, you know, Bruce Walker was
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow. Legendary.
Jason: to be among all these guys that, like, I knew like, okay, those guys are gonna be pros. Like, like, you know, competing with those guys and [01:03:00] like, you know, I can kind of hang with them. Like maybe
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Apparently you took out Taylor Knox, you know.
Jason: that was a, that was a personal vendetta, I think. Um, not that I have anything
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Explain, explain. No, go on.
Jason: one of my favorite surfers of all time. I,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: course.
Jason: why when I got to cover the tour, he was always the guy I wanted to see win. But, um, when I was, I guess 20 years old, I, I, got sponsored by OP little bit and they
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: How good did that feel, by the way? How good did that feel? Hydro light and all.
Jason: oh, all of it if it was insane, other than they, I, they brought me into the warehouse and they're like, okay, pick out some clothes.
And I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh my gosh.
Jason: oh gosh, this stuff is hideous. Like, I don't want any of it.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: You didn't want the RA board shorts? You know, like the, the biker shorts.
Jason: the one thing I got that I ended up using more than anything was a pair of orange nut huggers, hi hydrolite nut [01:04:00] huggers that I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: for like 20 years after that that I would wear as a joke. Um,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: be damned.
Jason: yeah. Um, and. Anyway, the Taylor thing, um, Taylor surfed for OP at the time too, and he was for very good reason making a lot more than me.
So
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: their new West Coast guy. I was like their New East Coast guy. So like, I was out doing like the, you know, bud Tour, PSAA or whatever. They were calling the domestic national tour at the time. And, um, I had a couple events where I came up against Taylor in the, you know, whatever round of the event.
And I'm like, you know, I, he had a target on his back for me. 'cause it was like, okay, op, like yes, I realize, you know, deserves a lot more money than me because of whatever, but like, not for this 20 minutes. And, uh, I don't know, went into some other zone and like was able to take him out a couple times.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Did you ever, did you ever reflect on that heat with him [01:05:00] after that as he guys gotten older? Does he know about that? Is he going to hear this and be like, I didn't even know that.
Jason: yeah, he probably has no idea. You know, he was, would be like, I might beat him, he'd get second in that heat and then
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: out the next round and he'd keep going to the finals. So to him it was just like, whatever, you know, he, he was, you know, he was going all the way till Sunday and I was, you know, flying home on Friday.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I mean, that must have been quite an experience being on the Bud Tour, the PSAA tour, the Professional Surfing Association of America. For listeners who aren't, uh, initiated, uh, or are a little too young, um, but like, that must have been one of the, I think that was probably one of the greatest, um, that was like one of the greatest things to happen to us surfing.
I mean, that really helped build the foundation for the momentum generation for the US to dominate through the [01:06:00] nineties. And like, it really was like something, uh, really important that we were, I think, lacking a lot of now. And, you know, not only that the hail had the A SP East as well, they had all these like, micro tours, but it was, there was no shortage of contests even with that.
And I'm curious like what that was like being on the Bud Tour, because I, you know, I've heard lots of stories of people being on the QS or the World Tour, talked to Jamie Brissett many times about the shenanigans that would happen, but I've yet to really talk to people who've been on the Bud Pro tour and what that was like, because it, it sounded competitive, but it also sounded like kind of wild too from, from my perspective here in New York.
Jason: Yeah. Um, I know there, yeah, at, at every stop there was definitely a whole, a whole scene, um, which I, I was, that was not really my thing, so I, I steered clear of a lot of that. Um, but. Yeah, [01:07:00] having that opportunity was, was insane. And like you said, a lot of the, that momentum generation, those are the guys that I was competing against. Um, you know, as they're working their way up, you know, it was like pre momentum,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: But you also had then the older guys, like Jim Hogan, lamb, Bree and all, you know, you had guys who had been on the tour but didn't want to travel around the world. But we were happy to stay, you know, domestic, which was quite a, a cool mix. Like that really must have been like pretty fucking intense in the water, I imagine.
Jason: It was unbelievable. It wa and there was no priority. So you're surfing a four man heat with these world tour guys, like older world tour guys,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: they really need the money. Like they are gonna out paddle you, no problem. And like they're, if a wave comes in, they're catching it, you know, guaranteed. Um, one thing that stands out about that tour at the time, um, you know, I was, I made a few, like quarter finals and stuff. I wasn't [01:08:00] like, you know, winning anything or getting to a final, but, um, they had a heat winners pool and I was typically starting up from like first or second round of the event. And there's like a dozen or so rounds of competition in those things.
It's not like just four or five rounds and every time you want to heat, you'd get like a hundred or 150 bucks.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: like the year Kelly won trestles, like
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah. 1990.
Jason: his video. Yeah. I surfed in that event, it was the best trestles I've ever seen. It was like, you know, six to eight foot beautiful sheet glass all week. And I started in the first round and I made it to like the second round of the main event, I think like just before the quarters. And so like, I don't know if I actually made any of the prize per, but like the heat winners pool, like I probably made a thousand bucks and
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: What,
Jason: Perfect. Lowers like six times.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: that's incentive right there.
Jason: Yeah.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: That's kind of like mixing a little bit of the skins kind of format [01:09:00] to that, you know, which I think is, is really cool. Like that'll, that'll motivate you.
Jason: like they saw that like, okay, we need to keep these bottom tier guys interested, so let's like throw 'em a little money and make sure they keep, you know, coughing up their entry fees. I don't know. But that was, that was insane. And then the, the, as PE started just, um, right when I started Surfing Professional and it was, you know, Wes was just coming off the world tour, so, you know, he was still super competitive
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Keckley.
Jason: and all the guys that came up just from the Virginia Beach side, yeah.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: was kicking all of our butts. But, um. From the Virginia Beach side, you had all the guys that kind of grew up in West's Shadow who are now like, you know, 18, 20, 22. And we won a Surf Pro contest. And it's, so, it's like we would meet at WRV Friday afternoon, we'd all hop in the WRV van, 10 of us,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: down I 95, show up at [01:10:00] the beach in Florida at six in the morning. You know, go out, surf our heats. Um, you know, we'd all lose, we'd have to watch West keep going through, through more rounds. And then gradually through the years, that kind of changed a little
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: Um, but it was, I mean, it was the coolest thing ever. We, when I see those guys around, like we're always bringing back stories from those trips.
'cause it was like the coolest thing ever. You know, we weren't doing well for a few years. We were watching Wes do Well, and, and it was Matt Keckley. It was, you know, rich Rudolph. It was like, you know, these
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yes.
Jason: guys, Scott McCalls. Um, but they were the funnest trips ever.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: God. I mean, how many times you stop at a stuckey's or south of the border? I mean, I imagine they're picking up lots of fireworks along the way.
Jason: Well, the, the funny thing was with, with Wes at the helm, and Wes was always at the helm, you know, and he was,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Did he ever do faces of death with you guys?
Jason: uh, we weren't, no, we weren't [01:11:00] doing the much
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Lucky.
Jason: It was, you know, that's more driving like around
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: I 95 the whole way. And we were not stopping.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: you found a bottle and you peed. He's like, the, that van had two tank, two gas tanks.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: No way.
Jason: a tank and he just flips it to the other one and we just keep
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: What,
Jason: And it's like, Wes was the dictator. He's like, you know, meet me at five o'clock at WRV. We're leaving. And it's like, you get in that van and it's not stopping and uh, you know, you, you, you got in line or, or you got left.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: wow.
Jason: Yeah, it was, it was incredible.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Did, did Wes like help coach you guys as well? Or was it like No, he wasn't taking on a mentorship. He was just like, WRV told me I had to drive you guys.
Jason: we, you know, we, we picked up so much just from watching him,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: don't, I really don't remember him ever being forthcoming with any kind of, know, [01:12:00] tips or anything. It's like, um, uh, that's just, you know, now he has a surf camp and maybe, you know, maybe it's a little different, but, um, yeah, I don't, that just kind of wasn't his style, I think, which, uh, you know, I, I love nothing more than, than helping, know, what I've learned with,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: and seeing them than, you know, use it successfully.
But that, that wasn't Wes' thing.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Can you, can you just like, I, I hate to linger on him for a little bit. I, I think it's important for our listeners who may not have grown up around that age, but I was hoping maybe you can kind of share like what, what importance he played, not just to Virginia Beach, but to East Coast surfing particularly.
Jason: Absolutely. Yeah, he, I mean, he wasn't the first East coaster in the top 16, which then was the top 16 was the
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: It's like
Jason: the world
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Pat Mulhern and, and a couple other guys, I'm sure, and
Jason: Crawford, I think. But, um, you know, Wes [01:13:00] had a couple years there in the mid eighties where he was going for world titles. Like he was second in the world in I think 85 for a good portion of the season.
You know, he was winning events and, um, just for, you know, in Virginia Beach, but just the whole East Coast, like you said, to see somebody who grows, grows up surfing the same waves, crappy waves that you're surfing, deals with the same stuff, and has, you know, gone through the ESA and worked their way up and is now at the highest level and, and winning. Like you can't really, you know, the value on that is, is unbelievable. And to see, um, to see that it was possible was unbelievable to go to like different places and surf with him too, like surf with him in Virginia Beach. Uh, insane. But then to like, you know, see him in Hatteras, which
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: one I've ever seen in Hatteras could do.
He was a magician on the biggest gnarliest barrel days down there. He would take off so deep and so late [01:14:00] you'd just be like, oh, he's dead. And he would just get spit out way down the line. And then to be able to go to Hawaii and surf with him like that made one day I surfed like barely Yme
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: and I was, I borrowed this like nine two of Matt Ackley's giant single fin and, and like, just to be out there sitting near west like it felt okay. You know, it's like almost like I was at first Street or something. But, um, it was unbelievable to be able to have someone to, to kind of lead the way.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I mean, that's the whole thing. Like he was so respected in Hawaii. That's the, that's the thing. Like he really,
Jason: I,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: that's where he shined of course, because he's like six foot four or whatever, like he's massive guy. And so it was like perfect for him and he, he did really well there. And to be featured like in Wave Warriors.
I mean, God like to have a segment in Wave Warriors too, like that's no joke.
Jason: like, you [01:15:00] know, Crown. He was like doing really well in all the events he got. I think he got a second at sunset at one point and was always like, he did really well in Hawaii and really kind of like, I don't know that he was any better in big waves like his in small waves, like.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: He was great there too.
Jason: he was just incredible. But yeah, in big waves, he definitely like, um, used his size to his advantage and, uh, it was, it was cool to just, know, just be there and, you know, seeing it in
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: When you, when you, uh, borrowed that keckley board for Yed, did Keckley make you have to wear the leash on your front foot,
Jason: Uh, he wasn't there. I don't think he was there. He just, like, I went and grabbed the board from under someone's house or something. I think. Um, that's funny, when I, it, later in the nineties when I started working for Quicksilver and we were doing surf camps up and down the coast, I'd always kind of give him a hard time for that, you know, I guess [01:16:00] he's, he skateboards
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mongo,
Jason: foot?
No, he
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: or regular? All right.
Jason: then surfs goofy
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I,
Jason: and, which is crazy to begin with. And then he, you know, he insists that your leash on the front foot makes it, you know,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: it was less drag
Jason: tangled up or something. Yeah. Let's drag or something. I don't, I don't remember, but I learned it so much from, from Keckley, you know, he was competitively and, and everything. He was just a wizard and, um,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: ariel forefront right there.
Jason: gosh. Yeah, that too. Um,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: John Holman.
Jason: he was the, the biggest grom in the world though, like, you know, even in, you know, and he was in his forties at this point. Um, but the biggest grom ever playing pranks on people and just like, you know, any kind of, like anything, any kind of hijinks he could get up to.
He, he was like a, you know, Tom Sawyer kind of just, you know, was awesome. Cruising around with him was, was unbelievable.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: [01:17:00] Now I wanna ask like then, how, how did you transition to writing and writing about surfing? Like, where had you like enjoyed writing before when you were in school? Was that something that you kind of always kind of gravitated towards or was this something where you started to realize, I'm not gonna be able to do this for much longer as a pro and I need to find some other way to keep, keep it going?
Jason: I wish I would've, uh, had a little interest in, in
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: I didn't really have an interest in, in anything when I was in school except like, you know,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Surfing.
Jason: joking people or like being a smart ass to my teachers and that kind of stuff. But, um, I did find that when I did have to write something,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: till the last minute then just kind of whip it out and, and get a good grade on it. uh, but I [01:18:00] never really put it together that like, oh, this is kind of fun, you know, this doesn't really feel like work. And, um. Even like when I started going to college, it was just like, I just knew I was gonna go to college. I had no idea what I wanted to do. And um, so I was just like taking whatever classes and, um,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: how old were you when you, when you ended up going to college?
Jason: for a few months, skipped that first semester, started the next semester, went like a year, decided I was going to go on the tour. So I quit, got my ass kicked, came back, registered in school. A a year later, decided to go on the world tour, got my ass kicked, came back. So,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: know, it took me several years to, to graduate, but, um, when I was 22, my best friend, Jeff Hunter, who was one of the best surfers ever from around here,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: up together.
We were like sparring partners. He was incredible. [01:19:00] He moved out to California to do like the, the PSAA and I'd go out and stay with him and, um, really, really good surfer, amazing human. And he passed away unexpectedly. And Surfer Magazine out to me to just write a little kind of obituary thing about him.
And I'd never
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Hmm.
Jason: written anything other than my English assignments. Um, but I did, um, Steve Hawk was, was the editor at that point, at Surfer,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: One of my favorites, I think.
Jason: I didn't realize he was Tony's brother at the time. But, um, I realized that later. So I wrote that article, and then we started doing a little event in Jeff's memory every year.
And, uh, ESM had just started and they wanted me to write a little, kind of wrap up on our little contest that we would do every year in Jeff's memory. And, uh, so when I graduated college, I didn't, you know, I'd gone for an education degree, didn't really want to teach, never thought I would use that. And so I'm like, oh, shoot, what can I do?
And I'm like, all right, I've got [01:20:00] these three or four articles I wrote. So I sent 'em to surfer, sent 'em to surfing, and uh, Steve Hawk was still the editor at Surfer and, um, he, it took him a few months, I think he had a stack of things on his desk, and months later he got to it and he's like, uh, called me and he's like, Hey, you know, we need an East Coast editor.
You wanna do it. So I kind of just fell into it. Like I never, I wish I had had some, some training in a, you know, in, in college or something, but it wasn't something I ever really thought about doing. So I didn't, my training was reading Surfer Magazine from cover to cover. Any, especially anything that Derek Hind
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yes.
Jason: um, that Dave Parman wrote, or, or Matt Warshaw.
It was like, I mean, I would, would just read it backwards and forwards and, uh, you know, I don't.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: God, I, I tried so hard to write like Derrick Kind in high school. Like, I, I went to school for writing and like, I tried, [01:21:00] so like, I remember doing like for one of my school projects, like a, like a, a New York Surf magazine and I wrote like a whole contest recap of like ESA contest in New York. And it was shit.
And, and I was like trying to totally do the theatrics of Derrick and like, 'cause it was just, I mean he made it feel like a gladiator pit, you know, the contest
Jason: when, when a magazine would, would come, I would like, that's the first thing I would go
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: totally.
Jason: oh, the top 44
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Top 44 was the best.
Jason: Oh, yeah. He was unbelievable. And then to actually get to go work at Surfer Magazine, actually the first time I went to surfer to meet with Steve, we went out to lunch or something and we, we came back in and there's a poster of Tony, like on a desk, and we stop and he's like, oh, it looks like a, you know, poster of Tony doing a big air or something.
And he is like, oh, that's Tony. And kept walking, and then it just like clicked. I still at that point had no idea, and I'm like, oh
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Good thing you didn't talk [01:22:00] shit.
Jason: Yeah.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: okay.
Jason: Right, right. Um, but I mean, he was the, the best editor, the best boss I ever had. Like, he taught me so much. It
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I was gonna ask.
Jason: I wouldn't send something in and, and he would just edit it.
He would send it back like, this doesn't work, you know, because of this and this. Like, you know. This, you need to figure something out. And I'd redo it. And I'd redo it. And redo it until it, till it worked. You know? And I, I learned so much from him. Um, I was actually, I got to, my wife and I went to California in November and we went and stayed at his house.
He
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: No way.
Jason: from Mavericks,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh,
Jason: year. It was super cool to, to get to see him and, and hang out a little bit.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: dude, he is my favorite editor of Surfer of all time. I think, like I, to me that's the golden period. I don't know if it's because I was young and impressionable, but he, his intros, those intros were beautiful and I, I always wish they, they'd created a book out of those or something. Like, I'm, I'm surprised they [01:23:00] haven't done, he hasn't done anything with them, because to me, those captured the essence of surfing so much, and in the essence of those issues.
Jason: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: you know, he came from a proper journalist background too, which was really like, he really knew how to create a structure and to tell a story and to, and everything was very, uh. He kept it simple too. It wasn't overly flowery. It was really direct and to the point. Like he knew how to do it in a really good journalistic way.
And I, and like he did the comedy issue, like, I mean, his comedy issue was amazing, you know, like total taking the piss out of the surf industry, you know, like there was some, some great, great issues under his wing. And that must have been so incredible to have learned under him. Like, oh my gosh,
Jason: uh,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I'm jealous.
Jason: It was so cool, so cool. And not only that, it was, uh, you know, I'd go to to California to go hang out, surf [01:24:00] work a little bit in the office, and, uh, he let me stay at his house. And like, he, I think he had like a four or 5-year-old son at the time. Um, and I, um, I still hadn't had any kids and I feel like I, watching him parenting too, I learned so
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm.
Jason: about parenting from him.
It's like every, he's just such a great human and like, yeah, but his editing too is like, I mean, everything. He, he's awesome. He's, he's definitely a, a
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I, I feel like he, he's not celebrated enough in surfing today. Like, I think he deserves more actually.
Jason: I mean, he's, he's so humble, you know, you, it's tough to, I dunno, maybe it, the squeaky wheel gets the grease or something, I don't know. But, uh, he's still doing, you know, he has new, new projects he's working on. Um, sound like some, he has some interesting things coming out
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: He's, I would liken him to like the Kurt Anderson of surfing. You know, I dunno if you're familiar with, he's like a writer and he used to do like, um, uh, [01:25:00] studio 360 on NPR and like, just a very, um, just like a, like just a, a real interesting character, but great writer and, uh, phenomenal storyteller and just has great insight onto things.
Like, I, I don't dunno, that's just me nerding out. Yeah.
Jason: He, I remember a few things, uh, that I picked up from him. Like he loved Terry Gross
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yes. Who,
Jason: on NPR. He got, he got me listened to that. He's like, she's the best interviewer in the world. and thing that always stuck with me too, like was always he, his little mantra was like, seek first to entertain, then to inform.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Hmm.
Jason: whatever you're writing, like it had to be entertaining. People had to be into it, and then you could put in whatever you wanted them to get out of it, you know, down the road
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: of sugar makes the medicine go down. You know, that's, that's really it.
Jason: He was great.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Now. I mean, we have to talk about pipe dreams, you know, I mean, [01:26:00] that must have been quite a daunting task for you. Um. You know, from what I've read, like you had the idea and approach Kelly first, but then it didn't materialize for like another year or so, and I, I was curious like how that all came about and what the emotions for you were going through that project.
Jason: Yeah. Um, so I had, I had known him,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I,
Jason: I said, since we surfed together and it's not like we hung out. We weren't really like, you know, bros or anything. But, um, you know, I would see him here and there and, Tony's Tony Hawk's book had just come out, um, an autobiography that a guy that I worked with@swell.com wrote, who was a good friend of Tony's.
And, um, I'm like, wow, that would be cool to do something on Kelly like that, you know? So I reached out and um, he's like, yeah, and we got too much going on right now, like, you know, beat it kid. and then, [01:27:00] you know, swell.com was the whole like, you know, dot com boom. I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Blue Torch, hard cloud,
Jason: Yeah, it was, that was awesome. Like such an incredible
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: much money.
Jason: I had started teaching for a year, um, and then Steve called me and was like, Hey, we're starting this website. Do you want
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: And so I quit teaching after like six months, started working for them from home basically, and then got to sit in my office at home and write this like, survey A to Z, this like encyclopedia thing,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: travel around the world to cover events.
They sent me to France for a few weeks. They sent me to Hawaii for a month, sent me like all over the place, South Africa. It was unbelievable. Um, but that, you know, dot com bust came two years later, um, swell laid off all of their staff and then so all of a sudden I didn't have a job.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh
Jason: uh, somehow like a month later, Kelly reached back out and was like, Hey, remember that book you mentioned? [01:28:00] So. publisher that did Tony Hawk's book, like that went really well. So they wanted Kelly to do one. And so, um, I believe Steve was gonna do it,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: wow,
Jason: then I, I, I think the way it worked, I'm not positive about this, but I think maybe Steve suggested like, Hey, what if, you know, maybe somebody closer to Kelly's age who grew up on the East Coast, so can kind of like, get into his head a little bit more in
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: God. The book we could have had, Jason kidding.
Jason: You're right, you're right. I would've much rather read that one. so yeah, they asked me to do it, and, um, it was awesome. Like it didn't, it never really felt daunting
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: to me. It was like, just so fun. Like, okay, I get to, I get to go to Hawaii and like spend a few weeks with Kelly, just, you know, doing interviews, recording like everything he, he has to say, and then I get to go back and like weave it all together into this story.
And, you know, at that point he was just coming [01:29:00] back on tour. So I'd call him wherever he was in the world and like fill in some of the gaps. And then I went down to his house in Florida for a few days, dug through his closets, pulled out all the photos, old
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: way.
Jason: could find, which was really cool. Like, luckily the publisher let me kind of take charge with it.
Like,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: every photo. I chose that cover photo. Um, I mean, I got to say like, you know, put this photo here, this one here, like this is the way this should be. And it, I mean, I don't know. I, I know. There's a lot I would change about it, but I can't tell you how many people I've seen who like, oh, I did a book report on that in
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: Or like, surfers notoriously don't read a lot in general, I think as a whole. And I've seen so many people who are like, that's the only book I ever read cover to cover.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: You're like, God, help you.
Jason: I feel bad for you. Yeah. Um, but I mean, it was such a neat experience. It was, it was awesome.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Let me ask like, how did you prep for that? Did [01:30:00] you like, did you have a structure going into it? Did you lay out like storyboard it beforehand, or was it more just like interview and then compile it after? And then how many of the people around Kelly were you able to talk to, and how were you able to get access to everyone?
Jason: Uh, so I think probably Steve, I'm guessing, gave me some, some direction maybe to, I think he said like, you know, talk to as many people as you can, get a list of, you know, as many pages full of questions as you can from every, every facet of his, you know, en entire existence. And, uh, you know, just go through the whole thing.
And I, um, that's what I did. I went, I had Matt Warshaw send me all the articles he had.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: them, I think, or that
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Nice.
Jason: he used to fax me stuff all the time for that survey. A to Z. But, um. For that. [01:31:00] He just sent me a whole packet, like with every article every ever written on Kelly. And so just reading all that stuff and just writing a list and
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: I had pages and pages and pages just like each, like one line about like, you know, ask Kelly about the time he, you know, did this in at Pipeline or you know, this time in high school when this happened or whatever.
And we just went through, we sat down for weeks and just, I had this little recorder thing, these little mini discs that he
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yep.
Jason: recorder in Japan, I think. And he, he gave it to me to use for that. I still have all the discs, I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: No way.
Jason: yeah,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: You should make a like an audio podcast out of that like, holy crap man.
Jason: I don't know, 40 hours or something of,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Send it to me. I'll edit that.
Jason: But yeah.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: That's amazing.
Jason: so I just took all that, brought it back home and just, you know, I, I didn't have anything to transcribe it with, so, and it's probably [01:32:00] good that I didn't, 'cause I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: lot of work as I was transcribing it and just, you know, kind of went at it and just, uh, figured it out as I, as I went along kind of.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Did you, did you get to talk to his father, bch?
Jason: Oh, that was the other part of that question I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: into
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: No.
Jason: all the people that I spoke to. Yeah. So coincidentally that year his dad was, was really sick with
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: he went to Hawaii to watch the pipe masters that year.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: was, um, it
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: The year that,
Jason: cool. So I got to
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: wow.
Jason: a little bit with them, and it was the, the first pro contest, like since Kelly had turned pro, he had never been to a contest he had, and Kelly was 31 or something at that point.
He'd already won six world titles. His dad had never been to one of his pro contests.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: um, you know, to be there for that was really cool. His dad like, was so emotional that he couldn't even, like, he had to go [01:33:00] hide basically. Like, he couldn't even like, be around. It was like, it was really wild to be there for all that.
Um, but yeah, Kelly got me access to, you know, Jack Johnson to, um, you know, basically anyone that I wanted to talk to, he would give me their number. Eddie Veder.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Pam Anderson,
Jason: I didn't, you know what, Kelly had another, a girlfriend at the time who
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Lisa,
Jason: so, I can't remember who it was.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: some girl
Jason: remember what her name was, but she wasn't too happy about, um, you know, any of the, the Pamela Press. So Kelly, uh, Kelly was a, you know, he talked about it a little bit, but not much. And, uh, you know, he didn't really want to, she, she didn't want him getting too into that. I think.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Did you like, and what about like his daughter and like that whole relationship and exploring that, was that, was that difficult to approach him? What? I mean in general, how was Slater, how was [01:34:00] Kelly? Sorry, I call him Slater, but Kelly, like in terms of, you know, approaching the more sensitive topics, like did you feel like you needed to walk on eggshells or was he willing to engage?
I
Jason: I think the Pamela thing was the only thing he didn't really get into. Like,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Interesting.
Jason: he was pretty open. Like I would just go down that list and I would just say like, what about this? You know, like something super short. He would go for 20 minutes about that thing,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: I might have some follow up based on that, or we might just go to the next thing, you know, and it's, um, that one of the things I would change going back is I, there's some things I probably would've gone deeper into, you know, um, but um, with his daughter, it was kind of like, um, you know, he kind of went through, you know, the, how that happened, I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: And then like their relationship a little bit, but, you know, not real, real deep into it. Um, I didn't know [01:35:00] what I was doing, so, you know, there's, there's a lot of things that, that could have been I think,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Do you, do you think, like, does he, did he feel like he seems, seemed like he was super self-aware. Like, it seemed like there was an awareness of himself, his, his habits, his kind of his, his, his flaws and as well as his strengths. Like, it, it, do you get a sense like he's, he was very conscious of that and how, how the world sees him.
Jason: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And, and he talked a lot about that. I, I feel like, um, one of the big things at the time was, you know, what had happened with him being so competitive and
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: losing friendships over it and, and you know, how that affected him and how he kind of learned to, you know, deal with all that and, you know, kind of work it out with his friends to where, you know, he could have a heat with somebody and still [01:36:00] be friends.
And, um, 'cause he was, I mean, uh, there's in surfing there, there's never been a more competitive person, you know, and what made him so great when you couple that with his, like just the freakish talent, the, the desire having grown up in crappy waves on the east coast and then that competitive fire, like you put those three things together and it, like that's what, just what made him unstoppable.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: And then you throw in Andy Irons in there too. Like, I mean,
Jason: Yeah.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: the book came out just, just as that was starting to heat up, which is, you know, really, you know, that, you know, it's been, that's been mined a little bit, but I feel like there's more to kind of be explored actually. Would you ever do, uh, if, if Kelly came back to you and was like, Hey, you want to do a pipe dreams too, or a kind of additional stuff to it, would you ever consider that
Jason: I think somebody
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: hit the Todd [01:37:00] Glazer book, but that, that doesn't count. Yeah.
Jason: another one that somebody's working on right now
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Interesting.
Jason: called me and, and interviewed me about it. Um, and I think it is kind of about the whole Kelly Andy thing.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Hmm.
Jason: Um, I can't remember who
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: That's gonna be good.
Jason: anything about it.
I think it was probably a year or two ago when I spoke this guy about it. So maybe, maybe there is something coming out soon. I don't know.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: That would be, that would be pretty wild.
Jason: Yeah,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: After that book, the first,
Jason: I,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: were you nervous when you sent the final edition to Kelly to read and, and what were the notes like
Jason: I was, uh, kind of nervous 'cause I had spent, um, six months or something, you know, that's all I did basically for, for six months. And then, so it was like, kind of take it like, here, here, Kelly,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: here, Kelly?
Jason: and it, it had to be really weird for him
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: to, you know, he does these interviews and then all of a sudden, you know, months [01:38:00] later, he gets this thing that's written in his voice,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: but it's. all him. Like, so it's, it was kind of weird for him, I think, you know, to, to read it and like, you know, he couldn't go back and change everything to where, you know, how he would've said everything. He made a, a few notes, but, and I have that too. I have the one that I, that I sent him, the, early version that
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: no way.
Jason: back with, with his notes on it too.
And actually, I realized recently too, I need to get this back to him. I have his resume
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: What
Jason: like, you know, typing paper from a
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: with, with the punch holes on the side, like the old Xerox, like crazy, like Xerox paper or something like that.
Jason: it's like this yellowed
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: three sheets. Like, you know, ESA Central Florida contest number two, like mini ies.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I hope you scan that and sent it to Matt Warshaw, at least for preservation
Jason: I should,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: that, or send it to, to like Shaq or [01:39:00] something for the archives.
Jason: yeah. Right.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Dude, that's crazy. Like, that's fucking wild. Like, I mean, that must have been wild, like going to his house and going through his closet and stuff like,
Jason: was
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: oh,
Jason: found so
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: oh, garbage pail kids.
I didn't know he was into that. That's funny. Like, you know.
Jason: Yeah. I mean, I found some, some great photos. Uh,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: it was a crusty sock. Amazing.
Jason: yeah,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Sorry,
Jason: no, it, it was really cool. Like it was, uh, you know, I was so lucky to, uh, to get, to just be a part of that.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: what was the, the reception afterwards, like how did you handle like the, I mean there, there was a press tour for it, I imagine, and there was you having to go around and kind of sell it as well, like uh,
Jason: I was, I had nothing to do with any of that. It was
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: you didn't have to go.
Jason: Kelly was going around, Kelly was on the, the Late show. Kelly was, you know, doing all the interviews. It was 'cause it was an autobiography, you know, so it was, [01:40:00] I was just the, at the bottom, the, you know, it was like, you know, this whole screen, it was like with, with Jason Bort at the bottom, you know, Kelly Slater?
So it, no, it was his, it was his press tour. It was his, but it did, the book did well. It got, I can't
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: you know, it was on the New York Times list for hardcover, nonfiction, you know, number 20 something or whatever, which, I mean, that's saying something I think for
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Did,
Jason: for a surf book.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: did you think the writing jobs would start pouring in afterwards? Did you have expectations of that?
Jason: I, I, I did, you know, I, for a couple years after that, I, I had a, a, some, you know, several things I worked on and I just didn't, I don't know, I never really wanted to chase the, the freelance writing route. And, um, I don't know. I just didn't,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: It doesn't sound, I mean, it would be a really tough landscape, you know, like, you know, the, the two thousands were a pretty good time, money-wise in the [01:41:00] industry. Like, you could have done it, but that crash crashed hard and it's like, how many surf journalists are there now? Like actually making a living.
You know,
Jason: Uh,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: you, you made the right choice.
Jason: yeah, yeah, maybe so. I don't know. I did, so after that, Steve got back up with me and, and, uh, I was asked to come interview to, to be the editor at Surfer,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: and I thought like long and hard about it and just decided I don't, this is my home. I, I don't want to,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: which, you know, I should, I have done it.
I don't know. My, my, my son was just starting to get into surfing and he was all pissed at me for not moving to California. Um, but, uh, yeah, so, you know, there were opportunities from it, but, um,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I, I, I, I honestly think you made, you know, the right choice. I mean, now looking where you are, like, it's quite, you know, I think [01:42:00] you did pretty well. I, I, I, I think being an editor of Surfer Magazine, you know, has Prestige, but I think it's, it looks glamorous from outside, but probably was brutal. You know, the politics.
Jason: is I saw enough of that being out there, being in the office a fair bit, you know, um, first with Steve and then with Evan Slater,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah,
Jason: at, at surfer and then surfing. Um, so I kind of knew what went on behind the scenes and, uh, I don't. Yeah, I don't, I don't know how I would do with, uh, you know, advertisers telling me to what they want to see and all that kind of
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: dude. I mean, like, they had a, they had a shit fit when they wanted to put Joel Tudor on the cover, you know, and they had to split it between him and Luke Egan. Like, that's crazy. You know? No one wants to deal with that. They don't pay you enough for that. I think that Billabong being like, no, [01:43:00] you can't put a long boarder on the cover of Surfer.
That's crazy. I'm curious then, like your, your next book though was, was kind of, um, you know, was, was really cool and it's like the, the, you know, it's the, the Kooks Guide to Surfing and this was like a self-funded one as well. Is that correct?
Jason: it was, yeah, I self-published that. Um, my brother was pretty, pretty helpful in that, um, just 'cause I would, would start projects and, and never finish 'em.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: And, uh, he kind of like kept me honest on that and like, making sure he is like, all right, like, you know, lay it out and then like, you know, decide how long you're gonna take and do it.
And like, he would check in with me like, you know, where you at, where you at? And, uh, you know, I, I wrote it. I, he and I paid to have it printed and, um, locally we had it printed, uh, in Norfolk, Virginia, right down the road. And, um, I got like 5,000 of 'em and, and loaded up my truck [01:44:00] and went up and down the east
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Damn.
Jason: I. I had it in 130 surf shops. Um, some on, on the West Coast, some in the Caribbean. And I mean, I, I feel like it's, it's the best kind of surfing guide there is. Um, know, I, I never sold anything in my life, but I was, had no problem walking into a store and saying like, you know, you guys need this.
And they would look at it and they would be like, wow, you know, this is, this is funny. This is informational. It's like, is great. Like, and really liked it.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I feel like, like block surf should have distributed that for you, you know, like,
Jason: Yeah.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: thing is still needed, you know, do you, do you still see sales from that and like,
Jason: a, a publisher, um, picked it up. Skyhorse Publishing decided they wanted to take it over after I did a couple runs with it. And, um, it just hasn't gotten the, um, distribution that, that I would've hoped. It [01:45:00] kind of, I sold more of 'em outta my truck than it has sold in the 10 years I let it go.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: it's crazy 'cause I think like we've had such an explosion of surfers and I feel like something like that is, is perfect. Probably probably just have to do a bunch of tiktoks from it. I think. You know,
Jason: Yeah. The,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: or you, or you just have it on sale all the time at the Atlantic Park, you know?
Jason: are, they are getting it. They're getting it in there. They, they just ordered it, so,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: That's so perfect.
Jason: yeah.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Then. Then last year you did Virginia's for, for surfers and I keep wanting to say for lovers, like it's just so ingrained in me, the advertising. It's so good. I guess, and I'm curious like how that came about and, and you know, what was that experience making that book, mining your hometown and your culture?
Jason: yeah. Um, I feel like ev you know, [01:46:00] everything
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I.
Jason: the age of 12 up until last year went into that, like that book, which I just got a couple of copies. Hold on a second.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah, he's running to get it, folks.
He's got a copy right here. Beautiful.
Jason: just
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: No,
Jason: copies of
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: no way. Congratulations.
Jason: table book. It's, oh, it's beautiful. It's,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Is this this printed with Oli
Jason: No,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Who did this? Wow. It's beautiful.
Jason: oh my gosh. It came
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Holy shit.
Jason: uh, I think it may have, um, if this, that storm didn't affect it. It was supposed to land in New York today, I think,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Really?
Jason: a truck and make its way down here.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Damn man. Gotta sell that up in, uh, the Pilgrim shop in Brooklyn. We gotta get a copy of those there for sure.
Jason: I'll send [01:47:00] you one for sure when I get the rest of them. Um, but, so I quit teaching
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: 2024, not knowing really that I had a job at the surf park,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: really knowing what I was gonna do, but knowing that I'm not teaching economics. Um, and then I had my surf camp that I've done for ages, and I'm like, I have a driving school that I started.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: No way
Jason: I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: yet. You drive an electric bike?
Jason: yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm kind of removed from the driving school at that point. I, at this point, I have an instructor and my daughter kind of runs it, but, um, so I had, you know, some income and, and my wife brings in money as well. So I was able to, you know, with, with an idea that I was probably gonna be working at the surf park once it
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: I'm like, I'm quitting teaching, you know, it's, I'm, I'm done. I'm not gonna make it to retirement. I'm out. and I had a, a friend who, Trey [01:48:00] Heen, which I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yes. Our boy, yeah. Who introduced us. We love Trey.
Jason: it was his idea to do this book,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: No way.
Jason: mentioned it a year prior, and I'm like, oh, that sounds pretty cool. But he's like, yeah, it's about the surf culture of Virginia Beach.
And it's like, I didn't really quite get it. Like, to me it's kind of like, that didn't, just didn't really make sense to me. Um, and then, so then that summer of 2024, I ran into him. And I'm like, Hey, do you ever do anything with that book? And he's like, no, I really want to, like, you know, and I'm like, well, maybe we can sit down and kind of, you know, make a plan and, and see what happens.
And so he came over and we sat down and we kind of made a list of all these. He's like, yeah, I think we should interview all these people and just kind of show all the different, like Virginia Beach is, uh, you know, not a surf destination yet. It's this like hub of like the surf
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: There's been pro surfers, there's been, you know, people that have done all kinds of things from here, but it sucks.
Like, how does that happen? So that's sort of the idea of the book. [01:49:00] Um, so we started, like, I started calling people, setting up interviews and Trey was just really busy with his job. He has two, two young kids. So I kind of just went on my own and started doing it all. And um, I met a young local photographer here, um, from Virginia Beach, Andrew Tora, who I had seen him on Instagram and, and, uh, he makes Virginia Beach look like the funnest place in the world.
Like you could, you know, it could be a one foot summer day tourist all over. And like he goes and just takes these amazing photos. And so I just reached out to him and I'm like, Hey, I'm doing this project. I probably won't make any money off of it, but I think it's gonna be really cool. Do you wanna do it?
And he's like, yeah, I'm in. So we just started going around and, um, interviewing people and he would film it and he would take portraits of 'em. And it was, I mean, it was the most fun I could, Ima like my wife. Uh, bless her. She put up with me just spending eight months doing nothing but sitting [01:50:00] around, chatting about surfing
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh my God.
Jason: to work every day, you know, putting food on the table.
And it's like, and I was having the time of my life, but, um, you know, I didn't know how I was gonna pay for it. I didn't know, you know, I didn't have a publisher. I didn't have anything. And, uh, Trey again stepped in and was like, Hey, why don't you try Kickstarter? And I'm like, oh, you know, I, I had been the publishing route with the Kelly book with a big time publisher.
I had self-published one, and then, like, this was something completely different, but it was like a book about the Virginia Beach surf community funded by the Virginia Beach
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: It just made sense, you know? And, and, uh, Andrew, the photographer, helped me put together all these little Instagram videos and, uh, we ba kind of did this little marketing campaign and, and people, you know, were excited about it.
And, uh, it kind of snowballed and we, we got got it funded, um, and we got 'em coming, should be [01:51:00] here in two weeks.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: God, that's incredible. What did you learn about your community while doing this? What's something that you learned that you didn't know beforehand?
Jason: I didn't really understand what the local surf culture, like, what that even meant. Like when Trey first brought that up, I'm like, yeah, but, but what is that? You know, it was like. Because I was always kind of like, you know, I would go surfing and I would like, know, I'm out here to catch my waves,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: it.
I catch my waves, I go in, I go do whatever else I'm gonna
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: And it's like I started sitting down talking to people, some of whom I'd, I'd known for 30 years, some of them I didn't really know, but I'd sit down for a couple hours and interview 'em and I would learn so much. And it was so insightful to where in the water, I started just like, striking up conversations with people.
And it's like, I was amazed that like, wow, what was I thinking? All these, I was, it was all just like blinders. It was just all about me. And it's like, [01:52:00] we have this vibrant surfing community here, like people from all over. Like it's a huge, you know, military with the Navy here.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: many people got here because of that.
Whereas like when I grew up, like I knew nothing about that. It was like, you know, there's some navy guys beat it, kooks. You know, it's like,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: And then you find out Roger Erickson came from there, you know, and, and we spent time there, you know?
Jason: I mean, so many people, it was, it's unbelievable to see like what this, like, we've all kind of been through all the same stuff, dealing with the cold, dealing with the flatness, dealing with the cops, chasing
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: know, dealing with the lifeguards, yelling at us and, and like all these things together.
Yet we've had all these people go and, and like make surfing their life and do all these amazing things. And that it just, it's, I mean, to. If I had sat down to write a book about Virginia Beach surfing, I would've tried to do like a history or something
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: [01:53:00] Yeah.
Jason: halfway through and just, this sucks.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: been the end of it. Like, whereas this, I could not wait. I was like, I was sitting right here at the, at my dining room table every day, like after interviews, I would just be sitting here working till late in the night, first thing in the morning. Like, it's like I couldn't wait to do it. I loved every single bit of it.
And my, um, my son Grady, he lives in California now, the one who wanted me to move to California. Um,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: He fulfilled the prophecy.
Jason: and other stuff, and he did the layout.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Nice.
Jason: with my son on this pro,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Oh
Jason: it's like a group project for school
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: yeah,
Jason: with Trey
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: full circle right here.
Jason: and with my son.
And it's like to now like actually see it and, and then, and how well it came out, it's like I just can't even, I can't believe how cool it's,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Have you, are you, have you gotten attention of like the, the tourism board now and like the local government and all that to, for, to get behind it?
Jason: Um, we tried a little bit [01:54:00] with like the City of Virginia Beach. Um, they said, we don't really do that stuff. Um,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: That's like, dude, it's like gold right there dropped in their laps. Like, here's a great thing to promote the city and the people in the community and like, it seems like a no brainer
Jason: Yeah. No, I mean, I. I could probably be better at, at like, you know, pushing some of these things forward and it's like, to me it's just like, you know what? I got most of the expenses covered. Um, I'm, the books are coming. gonna sell 'em.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: dude. It's, it's, you know, like, to me, like, I think. That's one of the best things. Like when I do this podcast, like I tend to focus mostly on New York and every once in a while I get well-established people like you who I get to nerd out on. Um, but it's so nice to discover where you live and, and discover the [01:55:00] people that make it up and like, and then learn the backstories.
And there are people, like I remember interviewing certain people who have a certain reputation for being really intimidating and then they end up being like, you learn their story and you learn their heart and you just all of a sudden are like blown away by what the layers that you can pull back. And that is like really rewarding.
But also like, I think super important. Like I think our world is very global. Uh, but I think, uh, if we're to evolve as a society, I believe like we actually have to focus hyper focus on local actually more than anything. That's like the only way we're, we're gonna get to that next stage of society, I think is by focusing on what's in front of us rather than what's esoteric outside of us.
And I think things like this are, are the most important thing actually for communities. And it's also a great way to get to know everyone and like that, like I imagine now like. [01:56:00] If you do go back and surf in the ocean, uh, you know, like you'll get to know, you know, all the people and it like, it becomes less, um, dehumanizing and all the people get to read about it too.
And they'll go out in the lineup and they're gonna be, oh, there's so and so, and there's this person, and,
Jason: Yeah,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: you know, that's gonna break down some of those walls that you have in the lineup. That, that kind of attitude, which I think is a great way to control crowd actually. It's a better way when everyone knows each other and can communicate with each other.
Then you can talk and be like, I'm got this wave, and there's no, like, harshness to it then.
Jason: I mean, I, I don't know what I can add to what you just, that was beautiful. No, really, like, that was like, I think you just encapsulated the whole thing. Um, way better than, than I could. Um, honestly, but, um, no, you're, you're totally right on the, the, spot with all of that stuff. It's, um. I don't, not even gonna say anything about it because you [01:57:00] just, you
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Sorry.
Jason: No, that was great. That was great. Thank you.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Well, I wanna know now, like we have to jump to the year without surfing, uh, and your upcoming book, how Surfing Ruined Your Life. And so, you know, I've, I've read a little bit of your blog and I remember. When you had made that announcement to take a year off from surfing. And I remember being like, bitch, please, I broke my leg and I hadn't surfed for a year.
You know, hold my beer. You know, but I was like also really curious because surfing is such an to you. Surfing was so integral in your life and so important and made up your identity. And I always struggle, I always love discussing the, um, what, how surfing makes our identity, makes us who we are. And what do you, what, who are you when you take that away from you?
And I'm curious, like, one, how did this come about? And two, like who is Jason Bort without surfing?[01:58:00]
Jason: So the day I decided to, to quit surfing, like I woke up that morning every bit as in love with it, as you know, when I was 15 years old, like I was still surfing several times a week. It was still like, yeah, I was teaching at the time, but it was like. S from teaching, it was, you know, straight to the beach.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: look at the forecast, you know, when's my window? It was like, oh, haters is gonna be good. Oh, you know, it was, that was it. And, uh, I had read an article that Brad Malian wrote in
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: he's great.
Jason: He's an unbelievable writer, um, about quitting surfing that basically, like everything he's written is, is great.
But,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: it was basically saying that like, people don't just quit surfing,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: uh, you know, people, family jobs, injuries, whatever, um, lead people to stop surfing, but no one just [01:59:00] says, I'm just not gonna surf anymore. Except for like, maybe Greg Noel, I guess, did that at some point. But, um, and that afternoon, I went out surfing and I surfed, like, it was a choppy, like November day cold, crappy waves. and you know, I'm just sitting out there by myself, no one else around. I surf like at the other end of the beach, away from,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: 'cause I was living up there at the time, and I, you know, I couldn't see anyone any direction. It was just me and the, you know, being out there in, in these elements.
And it just like popped in my head like, huh, nobody just quit surfing. Like, if I did, like, what would happen? Like who would I be? You
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: like, and then when I get something in my head, it's like, look out. You know, it's like stupid. Challenges. Like, to me, that's what I saw it as, like a, a social experiment.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: Like I just was curious what, what would happen, you know, what, what would I learn from? And I didn't do it to going like, I'm [02:00:00] gonna write a book about quitting surfing. I didn't even plan on writing the bog
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: that came. So this was November, and I decided, okay, January, I'll do next year, which was 2014 or something like that. Um, so I'll, you know, I'll surf for the next month and whatever. And then January 1st I stop and I'm gonna go till December 31st. um, it's
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: I'm still here. Yes, I'm still here. Um, and I, uh, started January 1st like three weeks into it. Like people, most people didn't even know I was doing it still, you know, I'd get, there'd be waves and I'd get calls from my friends, like, Hey, you going surfing?
You're going surfing. I'm like, no, I'm not. I, I quit. And they'd be like, oh yeah, whatever. Sure. And then finally, like my brother, of course, it's always, always my brother that comes up with these ideas. He's like, you need to write a blog about it or something like,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: funny, you gotta like do it. So I started the blog and people freaked [02:01:00] out, like, what? I can't believe you would be so cavalier about this. Like, some people can't surf and, you know, you have this gift and like you're just gonna walk away from it. And, and like. I mean, so many different, like, you know, some people positive, some people negative, but it was just like, wow, like I really struck a nerve here, you know?
And it, the blog kind of took on a life of its own and it was like, I was probably doing like two posts a week or something like that. And, uh, it just, it became like this, this challenge that I was like, I had it set that I was, I was just not gonna surf, you know? And, and, um, who was, I, I don't, I was a dad. I was a teacher. Um, I was a pretty horrible husband at the time. Um,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Moody.
Jason: but yeah. Um, and it wasn't until like really after that year, I think that it, that it kind of, things started to kind of [02:02:00] like sink in when I started surfing again
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: terms.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: when I got back into it, you know, I didn't, I wasn't controlled by it.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: like, if I felt like surfing one day I would go surfing if it was ankle high, you know, I'd ride a log if, you know, whatever. It was like, it, it didn't control me at all. And, um, was like, I was like, I dunno, I, I, in my mind it's like this snow globe or something, and like, here's that year where it's like somebody's just taking my life and like shaking it up.
And then after it's over, it's like everything's kind of settling and it takes a while. And then like. I'm starting to like all these realizations, like what, you know, what's what and everything. And it, um, it's, I just see surfing completely differently now. I have a much, I feel like a much healthier relationship
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: Um, you know, I've, I've realized how lucky I was to have all the things that I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: you know, prior to that, I don't, I didn't realize just how [02:03:00] privileged I was, you know? And now it's like, I mean, all I want to do is like this, the program that we're doing with the kids, it's like owe so much from what I've, you know, been given to where like, I, I can never repay it, you know?
And it's like so many different things. It's like, I mean, I ended up, I was married for 20 years and like that ended right after that kind
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Wow.
Jason: of, you know, had some realizations there too. And, um, it just, uh, you know, it, it changed so much about like, just, you know, my, my outlook on things.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Did you, were you experiencing, I mean, I mean, I think we all go through withdrawal when we're not surfing, but I'm curious, like, did you feel depressed? Did you feel, um, the emotions of not having that outlet, that thing to lean on? Were you also like keeping tabs on surfing while not surfing? Or were you, were you like, I'm just cutting [02:04:00] all of surfing, like not watching it, not paying attention to the tour, not, uh, connecting with it, uh, outside of the water as well.
Jason: I, I don't know if it would've been easier or harder if I had just completely disconnected from it. Like, my thing was just, I'm not gonna surf.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah,
Jason: a wave. I still watched some contests online. I still had my surf camp.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: yeah. Oh my gosh.
Jason: wasn't out in the water with the kids. I was just, I was kind of at that point, I was just
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: overseeing it
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I.
Jason: Um, but one interesting thing with that I found that kind of filled in for it was like, I have a, my, my best friend used to live right down the road from me and, and his son and my son surfed. And one day there were these little waves and, and we like, got the kids together and, and to, to go surf. And, uh, and I wasn't gonna surf, but I went with them and
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: that just, it was the anticipation, it was the comradery, it was just the [02:05:00] experience.
Like the actual riding the waves wasn't like, I didn't really care about
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: like, just the whole thing. And I still kind of got to experience it with just seeing them and, and just, you know, being kind of along for the ride was so cool that, um, you know, I, it didn't really leave me wanting.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: It's, you know, I find the, the compulsion of surfing is probably the, what's most destructive. I think, you know, this like, like even like on Monday during our blizzard here, I mean, it was pumping, but I didn't go surf and there was A-T-A-P-I felt pangs of like, oh, you should be going out. Oh, you should, you know, you should going out, even though it was.
Fucking cold and snowy and windy and mostly closeout sets anyway, you know, but it's like that com, that anxiety that, that, uh, you get from that compulsion, um, is what I think makes it really difficult. Um, you [02:06:00] know, and when you take that compulsion, when you take, when you say, I'm not surfing anymore, or you have an excuse not to surf, like that all disappears.
It's kind of nice, you know, like when you don't feel obligated to surf.
Jason: yeah, yeah. And so I didn't for that year, and then ever really, ever since then, I haven't, like, to be, if I was missing a day in Hatteras or like, you know, God forbid, a session in Virginia Beach, which is so rare to get good waves and like that little window when it's gonna be good. And it's like, you know, if I can surf, I, surf.
If I don't like whatever, if my friends score now, it's like, great, you know, that's awesome. I'm excited. Before it was like, oh gosh, I hope everybody misses it 'cause I can't surf. But,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: um, no, I, I just, I feel like whether it's surfing or, or, or anything that you've just kind of. Almost rules your life, like to just walk away from it for however long.
Like can only be healthy. You
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Do,
Jason: a lot about yourself.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: do you [02:07:00] think every surfer should try that should go through like a period where they abstain from surfing?
Jason: Um, I don't know. I mean, it depends on if, you know. Yeah. They, they would undoubtedly learn a lot about themselves and they would have a better relationship with surfing afterwards as well as like, you know, have a better idea of just who they are. I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I,
Jason: sure
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I feel like it would be like George Costanza when he is not having sex in Seinfeld and he becomes really smart and intelligent. You know, like that's probably what a lot of surfers would all of a sudden become, like really smart and like self-aware and
Jason: they'd
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: imagine.
Jason: books
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: than Kelly Slater's autobiography.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: What do you think Kelly would do if he couldn't surf for a year besides play golf?
Jason: He, he goes long stretches, I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: without surfing, you know, and it's like, just exci, like, keeps it [02:08:00] exciting maybe for him or something, I don't know.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I mean, I think, I think it would, I think surfers should totally abstain at some point in their life. I think it's a, a rite of passage actually. Like you should shape a surfboard once in your life. You should, you know, challenge a
Jason: for the first time a couple years ago. And it,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: right. It's mind blowing. Right. I did the same thing, like that's the board I own.
Like I mostly ride now. Is that board? Um, it was one friend, my friend shaped one side and I shaped the other basically. And so it's asymmetrical, but
Jason: Oh, that's
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: it works.
Jason: Yeah. And
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: It doesn't not work.
Jason: right, right. Um, after, after that, that year and, and the blog, it's like, I didn't really plan on doing anything else with it.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: and for four years, five years, six years or so, I didn't, it's only because of COVID
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mm-hmm.
Jason: even like, you know, founded on my computer and, and went back and like, [02:09:00] wrote a book about it be, and the book isn't just about that year.
It's about like my whole, you know,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Your whole surfing life.
Jason: my life. But, um, kind of through the lens of that year and, uh, when COVID started, and, you know, we were immediately out of school, we're, we're doing these Zoom meetings and my, my students, most students probably just, you know, oh, I have, I don't have to log into
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah.
Jason: I'm just going to sleep or whatever. So I found myself with a lot of time on my hands and just. I'm like, you know what? I have like, you know, a few months till the end of school year, before Surf Camp starts, I'm just going to like, take this and, and just it out. And so I did. And, and even then it just sat for like another few years after that I didn't because I didn't really think I was gonna have it published.
I kind of wrote it, like, for my kids, like to give them kind of a better idea of, of who I am, sort of thing, you
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: That's awesome.
Jason: And, uh, last summer [02:10:00] I, uh, or actually the summer before, before I started this other book, I went back and looked at it and I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna send it to a few publishers. see what happens. And, and, you know, DeAngelo
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Ah, nice
Jason: uh, California, like, they, they dug it and they, uh, they're like, yeah, let's do it. So it wasn't, you know, it's, I, I, I let a few people read it and they're like, oh, this is really cool. You know, it's like, one guy tell me like, I think every surfer should read this book.
And like, things like that made me just go like, okay, like whatever, I'll, I'll send it out and, and see what happens. And, it wasn't meant for anyone else's eyes, you know, other than my kids. But it's out there. It's coming, uh, it's coming in May.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: dude. I, I mean, I can't wait to read it like I, I mean. It's, it's, it's oftentimes, I, I do think like, what would I be, where would I be if I didn't surf? You know, what is, what is [02:11:00] Tyler or, or Jason look like if they never picked up a surfboard even, like, how different would you be? Would you still be the same person?
Would you still be like, happy go lucky? Or whatever it is, like of your personality. Like, you know, it's, it's really a fun thought exercise for sure.
Jason: Where would Tyler be?
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Fucked, probably fat outta shape.
Jason: yeah, I can't even, I, I, it's unfathomable. What, you know, what I would've done?
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah. It, it's such a weird thing, but it, it's like, it provides, especially if you grow up surfing, it provides such a, a bit of like your personality. Like, especially when you're a teenager and you're trying to figure out who you are and you're, you know, so many other kids are like goth or social or, you know, popular or jock or whatever, and like they're looking for the things that fit in and you have that already built in and there's a certain sense of confidence I think that a lot [02:12:00] of young surfers have that other kids don't because of it.
And without that, where, where do you end up? You know, that's always like a fun and scary thought.
Jason: Yeah. I, it's, I I wouldn't even know where, where to begin with. I mean, I, who knows? It's, and I, and I say it's called Surf House, surfing Row in my life, but I mean,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: It clearly.
Jason: can, as you can tell, it's it's tongue in cheek, you know?
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah,
Jason: I just thought it was a cool title, so.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I think it's a great title and I think it's, it's perfect. Like I can't, I really can't wait to dig into it. Like, I think it's gonna be really fun.
Jason: Awesome, awesome.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: So I got another question here. What, what makes you claim think you make a good egg sandwich. I read somewhere you make a great egg sandwich in your blog, and so I'm like, dude, as a New Yorker, you know, like we, we, we, we take pride in our egg sandwiches.
What's your secret, Jason?
Jason: good, the, the deli, the deli on the corner, any corner in, [02:13:00] in New York City is, uh, you know, we don't have that here. So four Virginia Beach, I guess I, I make a good sandwich, at least, you know, my, my kids at, at the time, I think that was what it was. I would make, you know, on the weekends I would make egg sandwiches for my kids and they, they loved them. And, uh, I think if we, if we put mayonnaise on it, it was,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yes.
Jason: Jersey style or something.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Mustard mayonnaise, baby
Jason: Yeah.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: style.
Jason: so it's just, you know what my kids told me, so I, I believed it.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: All right, I am gonna finish this up. I have, I do a surfer's questionnaire at the end. It's kind of like inside the actor's studio vibe. So, um, you know, these are short questions, easy, don't stress over 'em. Some people get anxiety through it, but you just relax.
Jason: now you got me
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I know, right. All right. What is your favorite surf term?
Jason: I have no idea. [02:14:00] I don't, um, can I see a list or
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah, stoke,
Jason: choice question.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: uh, you know, uh, you know, it's pumping offshore, you know, uh, low tide, kalo.
Jason: Hmm. Surfable.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Surfable. All right. I'll take that. All right. What's your least favorite surf term
Jason: Hmm. I, I don't know if there's a term to
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Expression.
Jason: no, you know what, for, for me, like I have a problem with Chakka,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: All right.
Jason: a
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: That's,
Jason: I like, had a moratorium on Shakas in the book.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I think
Jason: unless
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: down with that.
Jason: which I do have one guy from Hawaii in the book, and he was allowed to throw a chaka. But everyone, when [02:15:00] every surfer when you go to take a photo of them, they go straight to the shakas. And I'm like, we're not, we're not doing it. We're not doing, I just feel like it's just so over overdone. It's like,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: It is also cultural appropriation. Man, you know, get canceled now for shakas.
Jason: yeah, I don't, it just, it's, there's, it's been done too many times I think, I don't know.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: So listeners, no more Shakas, just give a thumbs up. Oh wait, no. Gen Z doesn't like thumbs up. That's offend, that's passive aggressive I think in text. Just flip a bird. That's always good. Um, if you could go back in time and grab any surfboard from your history, what board would that would it be and why?
Jason: Hmm. It's only from my history. It's not history. Um, it's gotta be the, the board I learned on
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Yeah,
Jason: five, seven Hansen twin fin.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: I think that's a good choice.
Jason: my, so my uncle [02:16:00] said that he had it in his attic,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: No,
Jason: when he went and looked for it, he couldn't find it. So
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: oof.
Jason: knows what happened to it got
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: bet you it's probably under something. Right? You know, like still there. He probably didn't look that hard. He is like, eh, it's not there. All right. If heaven exists, what sort of wave would you like to surf for Eternity. I think you already like kind of have that right now, but
Jason: Uh, um hmm. Uh, yeah, I kind of do, because I
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: There. It's,
Jason: I was thinking just like a, you know, a nice little barreling, right? And then maybe a couple turns and I'm like, wait a second. Like, that's. It's right, it's right up the road. I can hop on my bike and be there in three minutes.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: dude, I love it. I mean, can't wait for the retirement [02:17:00] resorts opening with wave pools, right? Like
Jason: Yeah. When
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: senior citizen. I would love to, when it gets a little warmer and uh, you know, 'cause I've already done the wave garden in a five mill and fresh water with the five mill boots and gloves is exhausting,
Jason: yeah. Yeah.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: you know. But, um, hopefully sooner than later, 'cause I am jonesing for, uh, another wave garden surf. I, I think it's freaking phenomenal. And I only got to ride my brothers boards when I went and they were either, it was the choice between a mid length and a long fish with keels on. So not the most ideal, uh, board for a pool, but
Jason: Yeah.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: made it work.
Um. Jason, I can't thank you enough. Like, uh, I've, we've, I've taken up so much of your time and I really appreciate it. Like, uh, thank you for letting me indulge in so much, uh, that so many questions. [02:18:00] I've been a big fan of yours for a long time, so I'm just really stoked to, to get to talk to you. Uh, where can our listeners find you if they wanna find the books or book a lesson at the Atlantic Surf Park or just follow your, your work?
Jason: yeah. Um, first of all, thank you so much. It's been, it's been a great. Conversation. You do a great job of just making it a conversation, you know? And, uh, you know, I was, kept me at ease, you know, it wasn't until you asked me those questions at the end, I wasn't, wasn't too nervous or anything. Um, but, um, the, probably just like my Instagram jort is probably the easiest way.
But, um, I have a website, um, that's getting worked on right now, switching over from my surf camp 'cause I'm not really gonna be doing my surf camp anymore. Um, it's the surf school.com,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Nice.
Jason: surf school.com. You can order the books through that.
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: Awesome. Listeners, [02:19:00] go check it out. The surf school.com. Go. If you are gonna go to Virginia Beach, go stop by the Atlantic Park and book a session and, uh, ask to say hi to Jason. And, um, of course, um, go. Obviously pick up the Virginia is for Surfers book too. It's a great coffee table book, great for gifts and uh, you know, and then when, uh, how surfing ruined my life comes out, uh, we'll do a post on it of course, but everyone should go read that.
I think, because I think it's important. I think surfers should learn what it's like not to surf sometimes, and I think it's a healthy thing. So I'm, I'm really excited to read it and, um, yeah. And thank you all for listening. Jason. Again, thank you so much. And uh, listeners, we'll check you on down the line.
You
Jason: I, I appreciate it. It's been fun,
tyler_1_02-25-2026_190955: cheers. [02:20:00]